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But it was done with an extreme lockdown which was ended when transmission was minimal. There is tons of data demonstrating that masks, social distancing, aggressive testing and contact tracing (with quarantines of exposed individuals) is effective.
The Great Barrington Declaration has already been signed by 1,749 scientists, 1,994 medical workers and 29,803 members of the public.
Feel free to add your signature.
https://gbdeclaration.org/view/signatures/
They're ignoring it at least partly because the west is far more racist than we'd like to admit. For a long time there has been a feeling that pandemics like sars would never happen on 'our' turf. They only happen in 'exotic' places This is a major part of the reason the UK and US were criminally slow to respond. The US in particular is still a deeply racist country.
Thanks Willie. Yeah, I can't understand why that other thread was sunk right after you made your very valid post about race. Pretty poor call, that thread deserved to live.
@Mark B
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/06/scientists-call-for-herd-immunity-covid-strategy-for-young?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
USA might have racists, along with a media that does exist just to cause tension now but all in all, there isnt many places that people of different planet origins co-exist in the millions. All with guns as well.
This alone all is at the heart of our first world problems. We’ve run out of real enemies so manipulators need to provoke what they can to get people to find them the power they crave, and those with prejudicial predilections are all too happy to oblige as it satisfies their secret desires to hate others so that they can redirect the self hatred that defines their existence.
Well said Krupa. The fact is that one of the main reasons the US did not want to eliminate slavery or give equality to blacks was that then the white working class would have no-one to feel better than. And that would cause trouble for the higher ups. Same old divide and conquer strategies are still at play today. History shows, racism etc rise heavily when there is inequality and deprivation.
“Correlation does not equal causation”
This is a cornerstone of statistical analysis, and simple correlation is rarely useful in providing proofs. It is simply correlation, especially when making comparisons between exclusive data sets such as non-overlapping geographical areas.
More data would be needed to draw any useful conclusions from the above.
@Gavinski : I don't think the reason was so well thought out. The attitudes towards Africans and people of African descent that allowed slavery to happen caused Europeans and Americans to see them as not really people. Even many abolitionists were extremely racist. I'd argue that toxic attitudes that allowed white people to see black people as being somehow less human resulted in those white people (wrongly) denying Africans and their descendants equality. Even after the civil rights conferred legal equality those same attitudes continued and continue to this day.
And while prejudice exists in the U.S. towards other groups, those prejudices have not had the same perniciousness nor been applied so systematically and enduringly. I'd be hesitant to assert Britain as being radically better.
One of the things in the U.S. that has been especially pernicious is the structure of our government which has given disproportionate weight to rural states -- particularly when it comes to the judiciary. So, the large minority that strongly favors white privilege has a ridiculously strong voice at the moment -- and they have become increasingly emboldened. There are national figures who say things like 'the family was stronger before emancipation' and aren't shunned as they would have been even just 4 years ago. Their internal attitudes aren't different but they feel bolder than before.
How this plays out is anybody's guess. In the U.S., we are in for a rough ride.
And parts of Europe are grappling with this too. There are places where far right nationalists are no longer confined to the fringes of discourse.
I'd agree with all of that.
It's a welcome diversion for me.
Actually, we're on the cusp of a massive recession that will take years to recover from.
The top %1 doesn't tend to keep it's money in cash in some shell company. The money is
invested. That's why the Chinese own so much of our bond debt. It's a safe place to park
assets... or it has been for many years. If we break the trust in the dollar we'll be just like Trump.
Massive debts and no one to load us the money for the interest payments. We'll have to
start taxing everything at very high rates or default on the bonds and effectively steal all that
Chinese money as a bankrupt nation.
You can pull money out of a system up to a point and then it collapses from the parasitic actions.
You kill the fatted cow. We should be vigilant and that requires... wait for it... finding, trusting and following the advice of experts in this area.
In other words... we're well and totally fucked.
Use experts for policy? Not until we're begging for food and water. Will we still get to pick the
leaders who ignore the experts? That's the short term question... do votes and elections still matter
or have we lost the franchise and the trust to use these systems for the allocation of power?
VOTE using the most trusted means possible.
Have you compared your driver's license signature to your typical signature? A ballot can be contested if they don't look identical. So, much for FaceID. When was the last time you used a real pen?
I'm starting to suspect that I need to mask up and vote in person to just feel like I have confidence
I will be counted and can feel the result on Nov 3. We need to just bury the R's in votes for D's or
we're slipping into something beyond democracy.
20/20 means perfect vision for your eyes.
2020 on the calendar means a shit storm of lies and obfuscation as a political strategy.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO CHANGE @Markb. He's wasting your time. Use ignore. I never do but really.
IGNORE! + 1,000
@McD: fwiw, my replies to MarkB are not to convince him -- but to provide information for people that read the thread. If one lets bogus versions of reality get put out there without rebuttal those things take on even more of a life of their own.
Absolutely agree.
I hope Biden is surrounded be a vigilant and rigorous team, the thing that could throw a curve would be if he became infected.
When Clinton became president, Alan Greenspan, the chair of the Federal Reserve, basically told him, do what we say or we'll screw the economy. Democrats have their hands tied. Its going to take nothing less than a revolution to change things. But definitely, in the short term, Biden is a safer vote for equality than Trump.
If no one responds to Mark B (Vlad P) he disappears.
Just check the comment history on his bio. Well over 90% of his posts are on this thread. Over 90% of people on this thread know Mark B is full of lies and mid-truths.
If you locked Dumbass Donnie in a gymnasium alone for a week, how many hours do you think it would take for him to totally STFU?!?!?!
Give it a try.
You have days of your life to gain...
You mean he's still posting on the forum? Why do you think that is? He will go away
if we ignore him. You're not balancing the scales of disinformation we're giving him free oxygen.
That's why he repeats the same messages and we see various ABF folks try and set the record straight.
Ignore him and there's no need to correct the record. He had his say, IMHO.
Carry on as you see fit. I'm going to ignore anyone that responds to him until after the election
for my own sanity because when they respond to him they expose his most recent round of BS yet again
for anyone that's ignoring him. Sleep with pigs... sort of deal.
@SNystrom bully much?
Just truth to bullshit, my friend.
Truth to bullshit!
Feel free to ignore me, @noob.
Where I live it's still a free country and I fully welcome whichever choice you make! 🤗
Noob has a point @SNystrom your heart is in the right place but you do come across as quite vicious in this thread 😅. I'd posit that it's counterproductive to your aims brother 🙏
Well, if suggesting people are wasting their lives arguing with someone spreading lies and misinformation is "bullying," you should see the example set by my "so-called president."
Perhaps I'm not as diplomatic at I might have been four years ago, but then four years ago I hadn't had my life threatened by right-wing Nazi extremists simply because I wore a mask in public. 🙃
People in the county 10 miles from my home are doing shit like this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-01/covid-19-restrictions-bring-california-county-into-revolt
Perhaps (if you even bother to read it) this might at least partially explain my approach.
@SNystrom I'm a reader, sure I read it. And I really sympathise. But constantly attacking and belittling people is no way to get them on your side.
“It's been a very interesting journey. I've learned a lot about COVID. I learned it by really going to school.” “This is the real school,” “This isn't the 'let's read the book' school”
Of course not, his type burn them.
Well, @Gavinski, the last thing in the world I would want is for mark b to change his mind.
He has his extraordinary focused rant which he will propagate as long as others respond to him.
I'm just saying if forum members ignore him, his message falls on deaf ears and disappears.
But somehow ignoring others is "bullying."
I dunno, but back in elementary school "bullying" involved a lil more than ignoring someone.
Have we somehow suddenly become Snowflake world???