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Comments
So ‘nonsense’ is too aggressive, but saying people are ‘bitching’ is fine with you?
(Ok. Maybe that slipped under your radar)
I feel like this conversation is largely ignoring creative manipulation of commercial samples. If you have Ableton Live open up Impulse some time. The preset sounds are these weird, creative percussion sounds. Then go in and reset things like pitch and filters to defaults. What you’ll hear are often very vanilla drum sounds that you might find in say, a sample pack for example. Lots of broad brushing and assumptions in the thread. Isn’t the heart of sampling, sampling sound and doing something creative with it?
@Skyblazer I mostly agree but the point is, that with sample packs it is impossible "to make a cultural statement". Again, that is not meant to say, one is better than the other. Samplers are not better than pianos because you can make a cultural statement with them. But they are different from pianos nevertheless.
@Turntablist called an individual person’s contribution nonsense.
@DukeWonder made a general statement about people bitching.
See the difference?
@ecamburn in general I agree. It is very interesting, that many of us seem to take this discussion very serious on a very personal level. Most of the accusations thrown around seem to be based on misunderstandings. I still think that the audiobus crowd are a rather polite bunch of people...most of the time
No, I don’t, actually.
Dude was dismissive of everyone arguing for a viewpoint contrary to his.
That is disrespectful.
Other dude called his generalized, dismissive comment nonsense.
Which it is, being generalized and dismissive in nature and tone.
Maybe if he said ‘b.s.’ you would have a point.
But ‘nonsense’?
🤣
@CracklePot said:
Ok. To each his own
But thanks for laughing at me. It’s been an enlightening conversation
No problem.
And no hard feelings.
🤙🏻
Fighting words haha, is it nice up in that bubble on your fluffy cloud ?
He spoke nonsense, I said it was nonsense, chief.
I meant that you’re not better than someone else because you sample vinyl and they buy sample packs.
Thought that was pretty obvious but maybe not. But also you really just seem like you’re always looking for a fight so merry Christmas?
🤷🏻♂️
You either believe your statement or you don't. There is no room for 'you do you' when you're stating that sample packs are cheesy. That's like saying "hey, what you're doing is shite but you do you." Have an opinion and stand by it. Especially if you're going to title it like you have.
I can't be arsed with a deck and vinyl or whatever some rando off the internet thinks will make me more 'authentic'. For me, it's all about what I do with the sounds I use. But hey! You do you.
What's making me laugh is that we are debating the merits of digging in the crates on a flippin' iPad forum!
So, are all Prodigy tracks technically remixes or mashups?
@ashh Oh you now telling me I either do this or that” You either do you or you don’t.I don’t care 1 bit about what you can & can not be *rsed with. Quote “ your words “For me it’s all about blah blah” exactly that equals to “you do you’. So what do you do with the sounds “you” use. The questions rhetorical hence no question mark. Guaranteed you chop & slice bread. Eat.
Kronky analogy warning:
People in the UK love SpagBol. But it sure as hell ain’t anything the Bolgnese would eat.!<
For the sake of argument, by Italian people I mean my dad (who lived in Bologna for many years). By English people I mean my in-laws!<
I simultaneously have two viewpoints on this. On the one hand people can eat whatever they like — feel free to mix all your influences up no matter how unpalatable the outcome is
. On the other hand it pains me that people think their SpagBol can be confused with Italian food. It couldn’t be further away from the culinary values I grew up with. And being half English I love beans on toast and bacon and eggs as much as a ‘proper’ Italian food. And I love a custard cream with my Espresso. !<
But I wish SpagBol was called something else. Spaghetti alla Lonon would be a better name
!<
Barely edible mince and tinned tomatoes on overcooked pasta is not Bolognese. It’s offensive to the people of Bologna. I’ve met enough of them to know that’s true. !<
It’s also possible to make really good food inspired by Italian cuisine that still makes your average Italian throw up their arms in disgust. Italians are very protective of their culture. You can’t mess with it. !<
There are no shortcuts to quality. If you only have 20 mins to prepare a meal you can’t cook a Ragù. There are plenty of sauces you can cook in the time it takes to cook the pasta so it’s not about being lazy. !<
But you can still do whatever you like. Use whatever sources (and sauces) you like.!<
So yeah. People in the UK love their Spaghetti Bolognese. And it offends the *^%# out of every Italian I’ve ever met. !<
Italians live to eat. Many a Brit eats to live. !<
There’s no real answer. both sides are stubborn. Neither understand the other. Trust me I’ve been stuck in the middle many a time. !<
As an Italian I wish the Italians were more open minded — there are two types of food in Italy. Good food like your Nonna makes and ‘WRONG!’!<
As an Englishman I wish the English were more educated and cared more about the food we eat. If we were more like the Italians or the French, you would not be able to buy Canadian or American Cheddar. We don’t care about our own heritage enough to start caring about anybody else’s. you can’t make Parmeggiano anywhere other than Parma. Makes sense. You can make any old shit cheese anywhere in the world and call it Cheddar and most English don’t seem to give a crap. !<
I don’t have any solutions. I think from a personal viewpoint I will Just try to understand every bodies viewpoint and be empathetic rather than confrontational. Which will probably be seen as being confrontational
!<
But it’s hard to be empathetic about bad SpagBol—-and most of it is appalling!
!<
@klownshed What I can deduct from your post is that culture seems to be important to you and you also value people's connectedness with culture and history. That is kind of the point the OP makes. So, are sample packs the cup noodles of contemporary music production? Loved by many, time saving and fairly nourishing, and yet produced industrially, and not something you would want to get served when going to a restaurant.
Yes. After a false start with a previous post I’ve given this some thought. And yes I think it’s onviously important to be empathetic with peoples culture and history.
Yup.
To stretch the analogy to breaking point; instant coffee is awful. Real coffee can be hard to make and can be unpredictable if you don’t take care. It is not worth the extra effort to some people. But it is to some. Including me.
I suppose any vitriol is best aimed at Nestlé. Not Geoff from accounts who drinks 10 cups every day. He knows it’s awful but it’s a means to an end.
@klownshed
I have been thinking about sample packs, too.
They definitely are good for a lot of situations.
They can be especially valuable to a person who has taken an interest in creating music, but has no prior experience. Sample packs and loop packs make it easy to jump right in and get nice results immediately. They can also help a person get a sense of the types of sounds they like, how different sounds and loops/rhythms can work together, and learn about how to create larger aspects like structure and flow, without all the prerequisite work involved if you start from nothing.
I have been finding them useful for a long time for quickly creating an atmosphere or mood background that I can then create on top of. More recently I have been relying on them to play around with my 2 new sampler apps (Samplr and SoundWeaver) that I got this week.
I love to open GB live loops or Launchpad, pick a sound set, and just jam away with the live FX.
So they are very useful when you just want to get on with jamming, but don’t want to deal with the more laborious setup stages, or you simply don’t have the time to spend.
Ultimately, though, if I am working on something that I actually care about, I wouldn’t build it with sample packs. There are just way too many other options that get me better results. I just use sample packs for playing around and experimenting, mainly, and for that purpose I find them very useful.
@klownshed Your nestlé analogy is spot on.
I feel like an important distinction that’s missing in a lot of this back and forth is genre. The OP in their title limited their point to hip hop and house. I’ve strayed into discussion about use of samples in general regardless of genre (I haven’t been alone in this 🙂). If we’re talking about hip hop especially, I totally get it. That’s a genre that’s totally rooted in a culture and a time and a place and practices grew out of that culture. I can get why folks feel strongly that authentic contributions in that genre will only come from authentic practices. No different IMO than the traditions of jazz musicians or classical musicians.
As for the use of “sample packs” in general though I don’t understand the line in the sand. There’s such variety. Are we really saying for example that folks who use orchestral sample packs should be tolerated if they’re amateurs but if they’re real pros they should record the orchestral sounds themselves? Over the years I’ve gotten packs of all sorts of weird sounds. One of my favs is a Buchla pack. I’ll never own a Buchla. Yes I could probably coax similar sounds from the zillion or so iOS and vst synths I own, but I appreciate being able to use these sounds as a starting point that I usually customize.
It is creative for a 5 year old child, though.
Most people flip them, modify them, chop them, manipulate them, mangle them, get one shots, etc
What’s throwing together? 30 minutes with a sample pack of hip hop beats and sEGments or egoist or hacking the audio by hand in Ableton could yield some pretty interesting results. I get that this isn’t authentic hip hop practice but it might result in some interesting music. Curious about everyone’s take on jungle and D&B, genres heavily built on a single sample.
I dig it a lot too. Happy dramboing