ATOM Piano Roll update is coming soon

tk32

You just need to contact the Patchstorage admin team and ask for a section to be added. We can help arrange that post-launch.

As long as you can ensure at least 5 patches are added in the first few weeks they are happy to add a new category.

(that's the basis on which I got the BM3 section created there - and the same happened with Drambo, Mozaic, NS2 etc.)

blueveek

@tk32 said:
You just need to contact the Patchstorage admin team and ask for a section to be added. We can help arrange that post-launch.

As long as you can ensure at least 5 patches are added in the first few weeks they are happy to add a new category.

(that's the basis on which I got the BM3 section created there - and the same happened with Drambo, Mozaic, NS2 etc.)

That's perfect, thanks! This would be a good opportunity for me to build some templates and example scripts, e.g. "simple new controller", "modified launchpad", "integration with another app on a virtual midi port", "high-contrast theme"...

tk32

One small caveat...

Deep testing of this scripting feature is above and beyond what I was able to offer as a beta/QA tester (both logistically and perhaps, intellectually), so you might need to suit-up before venturing forth and be prepared to fight a few dragons.

We have an awesome dungeon master, however.

...and if you're passing by... I'm the level 3 Bard sitting under the tree in a stupor with a broken lute blankly murmering "so many possibilities... there are so many possibilities"

sloJordan

@blueveek said:

@sloJordan said:
Wooooo!!! So excited for this! And really cool about the scripting. I'm still trying to grasp the scope of that (in the long term), so is it possible to actually write scripts that could change the layout/sizes of the buttons or write scripts that effect the midi notes themselves? I understand in the immediate future its more about supporting hardware controllers / colours / simple things.

Yes, changing the sizes of buttons is possible for 2.0, as well as fonts, colors, defaults, and tons more. It really is something like "here's something that targets this bit, write some CSS in there", or "tweak these variables for easy theming", or "tweak this config file for different input defaults".

In terms of coding, also yes. While the immediate future is about building seamless integration with hardware controllers, after the dust settles I plan to also enable (read: publicly document ) the ability to script the clip itself (e.g. completely alter the notes to build an arpeggiator, turn notes into CC messages, and so on).

For everything, you can edit the files on the iPad in an editor, and tap a button Atom to apply the changes. This is live, so you don't need to create a new project, it'll load the scripts in-place.

Legittttt that is awesome! Is it possible to load scripts by default when first opening the auv3? Or load scripts simultaneously into all open instances of atom? i'm thinking about some kind of performance layout that hides a lot of the editing features and makes certain things larger like the Record button, or probability params, etc.

espiegel123

@tk32 said:
One small caveat...

Deep testing of this scripting feature is above and beyond what I was able to offer as a beta/QA tester (both logistically and perhaps, intellectually), so you might need to suit-up before venturing forth and be prepared to fight a few dragons.

We have an awesome dungeon master, however.

...and if you're passing by... I'm the level 3 Bard sitting under the tree in a stupor with a broken lute blankly murmering "so many possibilities... there are so many possibilities"

Maybe someone could start an ATOM 2 page on the wiki and people can share their wisdom there so it doesn’t get lost in threads...and info about the scripting can go there and get refined by the community.

FloRi89

@blueveek said:

@tk32 said:
You just need to contact the Patchstorage admin team and ask for a section to be added. We can help arrange that post-launch.

As long as you can ensure at least 5 patches are added in the first few weeks they are happy to add a new category.

(that's the basis on which I got the BM3 section created there - and the same happened with Drambo, Mozaic, NS2 etc.)

That's perfect, thanks! This would be a good opportunity for me to build some templates and example scripts, e.g. "simple new controller", "modified launchpad", "integration with another app on a virtual midi port", "high-contrast theme"...

O.K so I tested what the Launchpad sends on the "Print To Clip" button. Unfortunately it's nothing, no MIDI or SysEx. Seems that putting it into DAW mode isn't enough to enable this button, probably some undocumented SysEx that you have to send, or something like that. So it seems they want to keep this Ableton Exclusive for now.

Edit: Next thing I'm going to do is document the communication between Ableton and the Launchpad , let's see what I can find there.

blueveek

@FloRi89 said:

O.K so I tested what the Launchpad sends on the "Print To Clip" button. Unfortunately it's nothing, no MIDI or SysEx. Seems that putting it into DAW mode isn't enough to enable this button, probably some undocumented SysEx that you have to send, or something like that. So it seems they want to keep this Ableton Exclusive for now.

Edit: Next thing I'm going to do is document the communication between Ableton and the Launchpad , let's see what I can find there.

Thanks a lot for looking into this, it's very useful info. I was fearing that could be the case. Perhaps Ableton integration uses programmer mode instead? Atom scripting can also enable that (it's all just code), it's just more grindy to reimplement some of the built-in functionality.

blueveek

@sloJordan said:

Legittttt that is awesome! Is it possible to load scripts by default when first opening the auv3? Or load scripts simultaneously into all open instances of atom? i'm thinking about some kind of performance layout that hides a lot of the editing features and makes certain things larger like the Record button, or probability params, etc.

Yes, you can select which scripts to auto-load when opening, in every instance. You can have one theme and one configuration file selected exclusively, and any number of available controller scripts enabled.

Your theming plans are quite drastic, and not something I ever considered or tested, but happy to guide you through and see what happens.

blueveek

@espiegel123 said:

Maybe someone could start an ATOM 2 page on the wiki and people can share their wisdom there so it doesn’t get lost in threads...and info about the scripting can go there and get refined by the community.

I'm happy to support any kind of wiki like this. I'll make sure to at least build a corpus of simple examples, and document all available functions in the API.

Paulinko

I think the decision to release Atom now is the correct one. Doing similar work for automation will not be an easy task and waiting for its release before Atom 2 would have been very frustrating for many of us.

The addition of scripting support is a nice last minute surprise before release.

gregsmith

@blueveek said:

@gregsmith said:
Wow @blueveek you are full of surprises! 😂

I’m gonna see if I can code in some sort of native LK integration!

I haven't tested this, but it may be possible when talking to the standalone version of LK, since it's theoretically indistinguishable from an external piece of hardware as far as Atom is concerned.

I hoped this would be the case

Same goes for any other app that has virtual MIDI ports. I'm happy to try making a demo prototype and help you out, DM me when it comes to that. For my own sanity, I'd really like to limit public scripting support to new or existing hardware controllers, and user themes, at least for now

I’ll see how I get on. It’ll probably take me a while to get round to it anyway.

orand

I realize the window for advice is over, but the sooner you release, the sooner you get real product validation with people’s wallets, not just with the length of this thread. 😄

And, if the influx of cash is sufficient, it might just enable you to focus more exclusively on automation and everything else folks are asking for! Remember, money is what gives you the freedom to choose where you spend your time.

MrBlaschke

@blueveek said:

@FloRi89 said:

O.K so I tested what the Launchpad sends on the "Print To Clip" button. Unfortunately it's nothing, no MIDI or SysEx. Seems that putting it into DAW mode isn't enough to enable this button, probably some undocumented SysEx that you have to send, or something like that. So it seems they want to keep this Ableton Exclusive for now.

Edit: Next thing I'm going to do is document the communication between Ableton and the Launchpad , let's see what I can find there.

Thanks a lot for looking into this, it's very useful info. I was fearing that could be the case. Perhaps Ableton integration uses programmer mode instead? Atom scripting can also enable that (it's all just code), it's just more grindy to reimplement some of the built-in functionality.

@blueveek @FloRi89
I don’t use Ableton, but from what i saw in some videos Ableton is able to paste the notes and stuff you played on a keyboard in the last unknown defined timeframe without recording it somewhere into a track. Some kind of live-tracking what you do and if you liked it just click this function and it pastes that onto a piano roll...like an ever growing history of incoming MIDI data...
I don’t know the name for that function. But i am pretty sure that the button is for this data.
So it is actually just temporary data in the memory of the computer that Ableton runs on.

wim

@orand said:
I realize the window for advice is over, but the sooner you release, the sooner you get real product validation with people’s wallets, not just with the length of this thread. 😄

And, if the influx of cash is sufficient, it might just enable you to focus more exclusively on automation and everything else folks are asking for! Remember, money is what gives you the freedom to choose where you spend your time.

That would be true if iOS music apps actually generated that kind of revenue. They don't.

blueveek

@MrBlaschke said:

@blueveek said:

@FloRi89 said:

O.K so I tested what the Launchpad sends on the "Print To Clip" button. Unfortunately it's nothing, no MIDI or SysEx. Seems that putting it into DAW mode isn't enough to enable this button, probably some undocumented SysEx that you have to send, or something like that. So it seems they want to keep this Ableton Exclusive for now.

Edit: Next thing I'm going to do is document the communication between Ableton and the Launchpad , let's see what I can find there.

Thanks a lot for looking into this, it's very useful info. I was fearing that could be the case. Perhaps Ableton integration uses programmer mode instead? Atom scripting can also enable that (it's all just code), it's just more grindy to reimplement some of the built-in functionality.

@blueveek @FloRi89
I don’t use Ableton, but from what i saw in some videos Ableton is able to paste the notes and stuff you played on a keyboard in the last unknown defined timeframe without recording it somewhere into a track. Some kind of live-tracking what you do and if you liked it just click this function and it pastes that onto a piano roll...like an ever growing history of incoming MIDI data...
I don’t know the name for that function. But i am pretty sure that the button is for this data.
So it is actually just temporary data in the memory of the computer that Ableton runs on.

I think you’re referring to “Capture MIDI”, which is different from “Print to Clip”, which is a Launchpad Pro feature based on its sequencing capabilities and what @FloRi89 is looking into. Both equally cool features! However, implementing the latter seems to be a little bit more challenging, or at least we don’t know how it works under the hood yet.

wim

@wim said:

@orand said:
I realize the window for advice is over, but the sooner you release, the sooner you get real product validation with people’s wallets, not just with the length of this thread. 😄

And, if the influx of cash is sufficient, it might just enable you to focus more exclusively on automation and everything else folks are asking for! Remember, money is what gives you the freedom to choose where you spend your time.

That would be true if iOS music apps actually generated that kind of revenue. Sadly, they don't.

espiegel123

@FloRi89 said:

@blueveek said:

@tk32 said:
You just need to contact the Patchstorage admin team and ask for a section to be added. We can help arrange that post-launch.

As long as you can ensure at least 5 patches are added in the first few weeks they are happy to add a new category.

(that's the basis on which I got the BM3 section created there - and the same happened with Drambo, Mozaic, NS2 etc.)

That's perfect, thanks! This would be a good opportunity for me to build some templates and example scripts, e.g. "simple new controller", "modified launchpad", "integration with another app on a virtual midi port", "high-contrast theme"...

O.K so I tested what the Launchpad sends on the "Print To Clip" button. Unfortunately it's nothing, no MIDI or SysEx. Seems that putting it into DAW mode isn't enough to enable this button, probably some undocumented SysEx that you have to send, or something like that. So it seems they want to keep this Ableton Exclusive for now.

Edit: Next thing I'm going to do is document the communication between Ableton and the Launchpad , let's see what I can find there.

Have you tried to spy with the MacOS MidiMonitor.app it has an option to show everything sent to/from a driver. It should let you see any communication between the Launchpad’s two drivers and Ableton.

Jumpercollins

@blueveek Will we have a Atom 2 user manual to read or is it built into the app?

krassmann

Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

wim

@krassmann said:
Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

It will be a separate app. No automatic update.
If I remember correctly, there will be a bundle for some period of time to give existing owners credit for Atom 1.

[edit: yep, I remembered correctly, unless things have changed since then...]
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/860936/#Comment_860936
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/835582/#Comment_835582

ipadbeatmaking

@wim said:

@krassmann said:
Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

It will be a separate app. No automatic update.
If I remember correctly, there will be a bundle for some period of time to give existing owners credit for Atom 1.

Wow that’s generous. I’ll be skipping the bundle and paying full price. Seems crazy to get all this for free or even a reduced price.

wim

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@wim said:

@krassmann said:
Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

It will be a separate app. No automatic update.
If I remember correctly, there will be a bundle for some period of time to give existing owners credit for Atom 1.

Wow that’s generous. I’ll be skipping the bundle and paying full price. Seems crazy to get all this for free or even a reduced price.

+1

GrimLucky

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@wim said:

@krassmann said:
Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

It will be a separate app. No automatic update.
If I remember correctly, there will be a bundle for some period of time to give existing owners credit for Atom 1.

Wow that’s generous. I’ll be skipping the bundle and paying full price. Seems crazy to get all this for free or even a reduced price.

Bundles normally take a bit longer to appear on the store anyway but I expect I’ll just get for full price on release as well.

FloRi89

@blueveek

O.K I took the time to figure it out:
1. Ableton uses DAW Mode, they just send a few undocumented SysEx messages
2. The message you have to send to enable print to clip is: F0h 00h 20h 29h 02h 0Eh 18h 01h F7h
3. So if you remove start/end and the header it expects the part that counts is 18h 01h and that is indeed not in the documentation (There is more like 15h 13h but the 18h 01h is what enables Print To Clip in this case)
4. If you send this the „Print to Clip“ button will light up in sequenzer mode and pressing the button will cause a bunch of SysEx Messages to be sent
5. There are 4 messages but I didn‘t take time to analyze them properly
6. The second message only appears if you have steps that contains something otherwise it won‘t be sent
7. This message has the note & velocity values for all steps, but it‘s complicated because it only sends steps that have something and some „x pads empty“ empty message and such things in between
8. I would assume the other messages contain things like pattern settings, probability and such things

Since it‘s not documented reverse engineering those messages would take some time, but should be doable by settings steps & notes and documenting the messages for those.

So short version: Yea can be done, but decoding those SysEx version is a little bit of a pain in the ass. Maybe someone has a good relationship with Novation and can say „pretty please can you give us some documentation on this?“

eross

@wim said:

@krassmann said:
Will Atom 2 be a free update for the actual Atom? Can I buy it now and will be automatically updated?

It will be a separate app. No automatic update.
If I remember correctly, there will be a bundle for some period of time to give existing owners credit for Atom 1.

[edit: yep, I remembered correctly, unless things have changed since then...]
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/860936/#Comment_860936
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/835582/#Comment_835582

wow really? this would be cool

RajahP

A new video would be nice, while we wait..

Soundscaper

Eeek Mr Veek! This is why the UN will probably never design an app. It's how we get camels instead of horses - design by committee... and your design committee is global, self-selected and wildly enthusiastic. Does anyone's pocket actually carry one of those Swiss army knives that do absolutely everything? Ergonomic disaster zones ... do so much you actually can't use them for anything.

Even for audio apps, all great products are constrained by the Great Design Principle: KISS ... keep it simple stupid! Everything from lightbulbs, to forks, to wheels Mr Veek. Good design involves much more time spent asking why rather than how ... getting rid of unnecessary lumps - obstacles - or burying them. The how emerges simply and intuitively for clever experts like yourself ... but the why often gets scant attention. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

A good design - in anything - does one thing really well ... better, faster and easier than anything else. Even more interestingly with audio apps you can add these optional extras as IAPs for those specialists and enthusiasts keen on coding and such. God bless 'em all.

But I'd suggest that's not actually the dominant market... the overwhelming demand - for a simple midi editor that is quick, efficient and works out of the box comes from newer less experienced entrants into ios music. Only of interest if you want The edge that could make Atom 2 as ubiquitous, common and central as say AUM. The key to that dominance is its simplicity with underlying power being available if wanted... basically, AUM does one thing really well... more if you want it.

Depends how popular, accessible and user-friendly you want your ideas to be. Depends who you believe your users will be for this sort of gadget... and who you want them to be.

Keep it simple, accessible and efficient. Avoid trying to do everything ... remember the Swiss Army knife. Mmmm 87 tools.

Lorichs

Wow that’s generous. I’ll be skipping the bundle and paying full price. Seems crazy to get all this for free or even a reduced price.

+1
This massive work should be supported.

DCJ

Blueveek proving to be one of the best to ever do it.

Fingolfinzz

Very exciting news