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OT: I live in the US and I voted today!
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The justice department have said they're going to start criminal investigations into instances of 'electoral irregularities', so maybe we're not out of the woods just yet (this is unprecedented - though again, not sure how successful they will be at making that one stick).
I think it's very unlikely any criminal charges will be brought against him. None were brought against the (worse) Bush administration, and Biden doesn't seem the type to do this either.
If you read the NYT tax stuff, and know something about real estate financing, he's far from broke - but he's going to struggle to hang onto some of his properties when he has to roll his debt over. My theory is he's going to do some kind of deal with CurrentTV and marketize his far right fanbase.
I do hope he tries to hang on in the Whitehouse though. Nothing would be funnier than him being dragged out by Secret Service men. Him refusing to concede would also be quite amusing - like an Antipope ranting to anyone stupid enough to visit Key Largo.
The difference is that Bush didn’t have a bunch of criminal charges hanging over him for his personal and business behavior in civilian life. Trump has a ton of potential charges, and anything related to misuse in power hasn’t even been discussed yet (to my knowledge).
Yeah, he is far more likely to get away with those things while he still holds office.
This is more due to the fact that he cannot comprehend that it’s possible to lose, one of the things that comes with narcissistic personality disorder. He’s been able to throw tantrums, evade bills, or blind people with lawsuits his whole life to avoid any negative consequences. They go away rather than having to deal with him. Therefore, the behavior has been reinforced to be a valid way to operate.
It won’t work this time though. If I read what some republicans have said correctly, it was basically, “He has these options available to him and it’s his legal right to try.” I think they’re just going to let him burn out, that way they didn’t “go against him” but the results will stand. But who knows.
The problem with transactional relationships is that once you are no longer of use in a transaction, there is no relationship. I think we’re seeing some signs that the trump ship is being abandoned, but I think we’ll see a lot more when the transfer of the presidency actually takes place.
However, the results show that there are a lot of angry people on all sides of the issues in this country right now, and I hope that listening to each other to practically solve problems becomes more the norm.
They haven’t made a secret of where that money is going either, I’ve read that in many mainstream news articles. So no conspiracy theory there.
Campaign funding itself is a whole concept that mystifies me.
The appalling thing is how the Republican leadership is indulging this. The suggestion that maybe the ballots that elected Biden are fraudulent — but what about the Republican candidates that were on the same ballots? Those aren't fraudulent?
The broader effect is you have down-ballot Republican candidates in New York State congressional districts losing 90-10 and then claiming fraud. If this isn't repudiated quickly, I'm not sure what happens going forward. This, to quote Robin Wright's character in "Bladerunner 2049," breaks the world.
It’s in their interest to let him go ahead and screw things up for Biden though. Ultimately it helps them in 2024 and they can always point the finger at Trump and say he was one who created the mess.
The only reason it's not a secret is because an intrepid investigative reporter examined the voluminous disclaimer (ever actually read any of your software agreements?) placed at the bottom of the request.
Once it was discovered — word spread like fire.
And yes. Campaign funding is truly mystifying — by design, of course!
You would think that senate and congress candidates doing better than Trump would have out the lie to the fraud claims...but the overwhelming consensus of scientists on any number of subjects aren’t persuasive to the GOP base, either.
McConnell will let this get milked for maximum instability. He probably prefers a hobbled Democrat in office to Trump at this point so that he can sow discontent and unrest and create a red wave in 2022 and 2024 to bring in a more able authoritarian...now that he has seen that the divisive nativism plays well with GOP voters nationally. What they discovered with Trump was that their base no doesn’t care about things like fiscal responsibility as long as their desire to maintain their privileged status...even if that privilege consists of nothing more than feeling that they are better than immigrants, POC and nonbelievers.
Lawrence O’Donnell posited that Barr is promoting investigations is because he wants to stay on exDonald’s side in case he needs a pardon. That makes sense to me. His directive states not to investigate allegations that won’t change the outcome for a state election.
They're staging a coup, and the GOP congress is complicit. They're going to throw everything at the wall: litigation, faithless electors, Supreme Court.
The garden centre fiasco was funny, and for a minute everyone thought it was over, but it's not over. He has no intention of leaving and it's clear that the Republican party has no intention of stopping him.
I think O’Donnell is too kind. Barr, like McConnell and much of the modern GOP has a long-term goal of establishing essentially single party rule. A party whose ideology harkens to a sort of 19th century white Christian patriarchy.
Will they pull it off in this go round. Probably not BUT they will have a lot of data points for the next time around. One thing they learned...a lot more of the population will tolerate their nativist white privilege point of view than support the toned down version they marketed in the years between Reagan (whose racism seems forgotten by most white folks) and Trump. Trump’s raw nativism turned out a lot more voters than Romney, McCain, Bush.
They see that their base is LOVING the refusal to accept the election results and the accusations that Democrats are cheaters.
They will take maximal advantage of the structural weaknesses of the electoral college and congressional districting until such time as demographics force them to change their tune.
We aren’t out of the dark yet.
you should probably should wait for the votes to be counted before you start declaring a coup. I think 99% of the country just wants the process to play out the way it's supposed to instead of allowing the media to declare a winner.
That's short-sighted, I think. The centrists and independents (such as myself) are taking notes and will remember in 2024 how all this shit went down. Perhaps I'm naive, but my informal polling on the subject amongst a diverse group of coworkers suggests that Republicans are brainwashed but independents are having none of it.
I think 99% of the country wants proof of a "fraudulent election" at the moment.
Of course, after all what’s one more democratic norm sent to die after all the others?
Elections are always called like this, to pretend otherwise is dishonest. Biden has won, there’s no ambiguity about it.
The way it has always played out in the past at this point in vote tallying is for the transition to have started. You can look up the history. The norm is for transition funds and office space to be released within days of the outcome being clear (which has generally been the same timeframe during which mainstream media has arrived at a consensus about what the results indicate).
No one outside the MAGA-sphere thinks the outcome is in doubt.
The notion that the outcome is I doubt is being sown by people whose long-term goal is making governing as hard as possible for Biden (or any other Democrat).
@rms13 : Even George W. Bush has congratulated Biden on becoming elected. Do you honestly think GW Bush would have done that if the outcome were really in doubt?
Sounds pretty familiar from the way the past 4 years went. I guess this is the new normal
Haven't you seen enough photos of W hanging out with the Obamas to understand why?
?
You are now just making things up. Hillary Clinton conceded the day after the election. You didn't see the majority of Democratic elected officials calling the election fraudulent.
It sounds like you are repeating talking points you've heard which are erroneous.
If you think that Bush being seen at fundraisers with Barack Obama somehow makes him a stooge -- I think you are very mistaken.
I would like to know more about what you believe.
Strange that the GOP is rejecting the Presidential results as tainted but seems totally fine with the congressional and senate races they have won.
The Bushes have no choice. The Trump and Bush families despise each other!
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/01/trump-bush-rivalry-1037143
Here is what you said "The notion that the outcome is I doubt is being sown by people whose long-term goal is making governing as hard as possible for Biden (or any other Democrat)."
My response was to that. Yes, the Democrats and a lot of Republicans in government as well as media and social media companies did everything in their power to make governing as difficult as possible for Trump. The nation is clearly spit 50/50 so to think that there will now be opposing forces making governing difficult for Biden makes perfect sense. In reality this is no different than any other President in history.
I believe whatever I believe and as human being born with free will I'm entitled to believe whatever I want to believe just as you are. You seem to have a problem with people that won't conform to your personal beliefs that that is a problem with you not with me or anyone else.
Of course. The Bushes and Obamas are essentially on the same team: the establishment.
And trump was never an outsider just a ordinary con man and authoritarian wannabe. He obviously has you conned.
I’ll take establishment and Democracy for $100 please Alex
Ah, the nut of the problem! There are personal beliefs and there are objective facts. You cannot distinguish between the two, just as Trump and the GOP cronies refused to do or did for political gain. The problem for you is that the courts are (mostly) governed by law and factual evidence. But I suspect that won’t stop you from “your version of the facts” (aka personal beliefs).