Bram Bos / Hainbach collab?

PeteSasqwax

From a guitar pedal perspective often you can't look down to see where other controls on the pedal are so they pretty much have to be the same switch for in and out.

xor

In iOS, heck most mode-based sytems, activation is supposed to happen on release (while still within the bounds of the ui element) so you have the ability to drag off a button before release to abandon the action. This is easily demonstrated in the iOS keyboard, press a letter and drag off before lifting. Also the “post comment” button of this page.”

That behavior is definitely not wanted for a musical keyboard. But a “clear all” button in a sequencer...? I’d definitely want it to only execute if I lifted within the bounds of the button in case I accidentally touched it.

brambos

@xor said:
In iOS, activation is supposed to happen on release (while still within the bounds of the ui element) so you have the ability to drag off a button before release to abandon the action. This is easily demonstrated in the iOS keyboard, press a letter and drag off before lifting.

That behavior is definitely not wanted for a musical keyboard. But a “clear all” button in a sequencer...? I’d definitely want it to only execute if I lifted within the bounds of the button in case I accidentally touched it.

Yes, that’s pretty clear. It triggers on “PEDAL DOWN”.

The question is what happens when you release? Right now, nothing happens. And it waits for another “PEDAL DOWN” to stop recording.

Im terms of CC values (oversimplified):
Pedal pressed: CC 127 —> record on
Pedal released: CC 0
Pedal pressed : CC 127 —> record off
Pedal released CC 0

mojozart

@xor said:
In iOS, activation is supposed to happen on release (while still within the bounds of the ui element) so you have the ability to drag off a button before release to abandon the action. This is easily demonstrated in the iOS keyboard, press a letter and drag off before lifting.

That behavior is definitely not wanted for a musical keyboard. But a “clear all” button in a sequencer...? I’d definitely want it to only execute if I lifted within the bounds of the button in case I accidentally touched it.

I think foot pedal and touchscreen have different UI guidelines 😀

espiegel123

@brambos said:

@espiegel123 said:

@brambos said:
Ok, for the pedal/controller guys, please verify... My current implementation of the RECORD behavior is "toggle" behavior:

Push&Release* pedal: start recording
Push&Release pedal again: stop recording

Is this how you expect it to work?

Thanks!

• the assumption is that "Push" sends a high CC value (e.g. 127) and "Release" sends a low CC value (e.g. 0) and possibly some values in between.

I would prefer for the toggle to happen on the push not the release, fwiw. If we are thinking of the pedal as a mouse, I want activation on mouseDown not on the mouseUp that ends the mouse click.

Yes, that’s how I have it now. But it requires a release before you can push again. The release itself doesn’t do anything.

Great. That is what I would expect: on downpedal, toggle record state.

celtic_elk

@espiegel123 said:

@brambos said:

@espiegel123 said:

@brambos said:
Ok, for the pedal/controller guys, please verify... My current implementation of the RECORD behavior is "toggle" behavior:

Push&Release* pedal: start recording
Push&Release pedal again: stop recording

Is this how you expect it to work?

Thanks!

• the assumption is that "Push" sends a high CC value (e.g. 127) and "Release" sends a low CC value (e.g. 0) and possibly some values in between.

I would prefer for the toggle to happen on the push not the release, fwiw. If we are thinking of the pedal as a mouse, I want activation on mouseDown not on the mouseUp that ends the mouse click.

Yes, that’s how I have it now. But it requires a release before you can push again. The release itself doesn’t do anything.

Great. That is what I would expect: on downpedal, toggle record state.

+1

mojozart

@brambos said:

@espiegel123 said:

@brambos said:
Ok, for the pedal/controller guys, please verify... My current implementation of the RECORD behavior is "toggle" behavior:

Push&Release* pedal: start recording
Push&Release pedal again: stop recording

Is this how you expect it to work?

Thanks!

• the assumption is that "Push" sends a high CC value (e.g. 127) and "Release" sends a low CC value (e.g. 0) and possibly some values in between.

I would prefer for the toggle to happen on the push not the release, fwiw. If we are thinking of the pedal as a mouse, I want activation on mouseDown not on the mouseUp that ends the mouse click.

Yes, that’s how I have it now. But it requires a release before you can push again. The release itself doesn’t do anything.

Sounds good to me. Trigger on rising edge. The is the most common behavior and, given this, smart controllers (and software filters) can be programmed to simulate other preferences.

brambos

So just to put it another way: I assume that the pedal is ‘dumb’ and simply sends high CC values when pressed and 0 when released.

So the toggle logic is in the app, not in the pedal.

Because I’m told that’s not how e.g. the FCB1010 works (it has the toggle logic built into the pedal, which would make my implementation a bit painful).

rcf

@brambos said:
Ok, for the pedal/controller guys, please verify... My current implementation of the RECORD behavior is "toggle" behavior:

Push&Release* pedal: start recording
Push&Release pedal again: stop recording

Is this how you expect it to work?

Thanks!

• the assumption is that "Push" sends a high CC value (e.g. 127) and "Release" sends a low CC value (e.g. 0) and possibly some values in between.

From my understanding, this will behave like a momentary switch? That would be good. The beauty of hosting a GAUSS AUv3 instance in AUM is that you have the option, within AUM, of changing a momentary action to 'toggle'... and also the option of reversing the polarity of the switch action. I can achieve the same thing within my Audiofront ME Pedal app.

SpartanClownTide

Pretty easy to convert the behaviour to anything through Mozaic if required.

mojozart

FCB1010 is Ultra-Flexible. I'm sure it can do whatever it needs to do.

https://media63.music-group.com/media/PLM/data/docs/P0089/FCB1010_P0089_M_EN.pdf

In the worst case, one can map a MIDI NOTE ON/OFF to your AU param.

espiegel123

@brambos said:
So just to put it another way: I assume that the pedal is ‘dumb’ and simply sends high CC values when pressed and 0 when released.

So the toggle logic is in the app, not in the pedal.

Because I’m told that’s not how e.g. the FCB1010 works (it has the toggle logic built into the pedal, which would make my implementation a bit painful).

Yes. The BlueBoard sends 127 on pedal down and 0 on release (when in either notes or cc mode)

Harro

@brambos said:
So just to put it another way: I assume that the pedal is ‘dumb’ and simply sends high CC values when pressed and 0 when released.

So the toggle logic is in the app, not in the pedal.

Because I’m told that’s not how e.g. the FCB1010 works (it has the toggle logic built into the pedal).

No, that logic is not built in the FCB1010; you can program every button’s logic the way you want. I have programmed 3 buttons that I use for loopers Quantiloop, Group the Loop (apps) and Guitar Rig Pro (VST) and those buttons send CCx with value 127 after push&release and CCx with value 0 after a next push&release. All works well. But while testing Gauss 1.0.1 beta I have to ‘double-push’ these FCB1010 buttons, because in Bram’s code a value of 0 is neglected (‘button released’: do nothing). Am I the only one who uses the FCB this way?

mojozart

@Harro said:

@brambos said:
So just to put it another way: I assume that the pedal is ‘dumb’ and simply sends high CC values when pressed and 0 when released.

So the toggle logic is in the app, not in the pedal.

Because I’m told that’s not how e.g. the FCB1010 works (it has the toggle logic built into the pedal).

No, that logic is not built in the FCB1010; you can program every button’s logic the way you want. I have programmed 3 buttons that I use for loopers Quantiloop, Group the Loop (apps) and Guitar Rig Pro (VST) and those buttons send CCx with value 127 after push&release and CCx with value 0 after a next push&release. All works well. But while testing Gauss 1.0.1 beta I have to ‘double-push’ these FCB1010 buttons, because in Bram’s code a value of 0 is neglected (‘button released’: do nothing). Am I the only one who uses the FCB this way?

I'm surprised if ultra-flexible FCB can't do it with CC. But rather than fight with that, I suggest mapping a MIDI NOTE to the AU param. Then depress will trigger.

lukesleepwalker

@brambos said:
So just to put it another way: I assume that the pedal is ‘dumb’ and simply sends high CC values when pressed and 0 when released.

So the toggle logic is in the app, not in the pedal.

Because I’m told that’s not how e.g. the FCB1010 works (it has the toggle logic built into the pedal, which would make my implementation a bit painful).

Exactly right. All my pedals work this way.

brambos

I think the advantage of the current implementation is that it will also allow non-programmable pedals (sustain pedals) and other pressure-sensitive MIDI triggers to work.

But as I said, I want to follow conventions. Following conventions ultimately means: fewer support emails to answer

lukesleepwalker

@brambos said:
I think the advantage of the current implementation is that it will also allow non-programmable pedals (sustain pedals) and other pressure-sensitive MIDI triggers to work.

But as I said, I want to follow conventions. Following conventions ultimately means: fewer support emails to answer

Auto reply that they should buy Mozaic to manage MIDI.

CracklePot

I think this implementation is correct for my experience with FBV MkII.
Push = on
Push = off
Release = nothing, just waiting for the next Push

aleyas

Agreed. Just keep the toggle behavior simple.

@CracklePot said:
I think this implementation is correct for my experience with FBV MkII.
Push = on
Push = off
Release = nothing, just waiting for the next Push

RUST( i )K

@White said:
So do you think this is a new app from Bram Bos made in collab with Hainbach?

https://twitter.com/bram_bos/status/1323681005270634496

Watch the video from Hainbach at around 3:36 (the blurred app)

Do you think it's the same app?

I got it.

I need to learn it.

It seems like a more user friendly ENZO in ways.

I hated ENZO.

So this may end up good thing.

[Deleted User]

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brambos

@d4d0ug said:
Hi @brambos

I use a Harley Benton MP100 midi foot switch. It can be configured in different ways, but the way I have it setup shows that it sends CC ‘high’ values (127) only, when the foot switch is stomped on.

Hmmm.. that's tricky. The plugin doesn't get to see the incoming CC messages. The host will translate those into floating point AU parameter values, and likely the plugin won't even notice something changing (because it will only ever see the value being 1.0 without change). That's the reason it needs the 0-value; to get a notification that the pedal state has changed.

Obviously a super-simple Mozaic script can easily let each CC 127 be automatically followed up by a CC 0.

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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brambos

@d4d0ug said:

@d4d0ug said:

@brambos said:

@d4d0ug said:
Hi @brambos

I use a Harley Benton MP100 midi foot switch. It can be configured in different ways, but the way I have it setup shows that it sends CC ‘high’ values (127) only, when the foot switch is stomped on.

Hmmm.. that's tricky. The plugin doesn't get to see the incoming CC messages. The host will translate those into floating point AU parameter values, and likely the plugin won't even notice something changing (because it will only ever see the value being 1.0 without change). That's the reason it needs the 0-value; to get a notification that the pedal state has changed.

Obviously a super-simple Mozaic script can easily let each CC 127 be automatically followed up by a CC 0.

Totally, it is a weird behaviour - and it might be configurable on the device itself. I’m more than happy to get it working with Mozaic. Just another ‘data point’ for your research 😁

It does ‘work’ with Quantiloop - which classifies different behaviours of incoming switching. Just for info.

Is that as a standalone/IAA app or as a MIDI destination? In those cases it's easier, because discrete MIDI CC messages can be identified and handled separately. AU parameters are just fluctuating values, and if the pedal always sends the same number (127) the plugin will never see the value change.

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oat_phipps

@RUST( i )K said:

@White said:
So do you think this is a new app from Bram Bos made in collab with Hainbach?

https://twitter.com/bram_bos/status/1323681005270634496

Watch the video from Hainbach at around 3:36 (the blurred app)

Do you think it's the same app?

I got it.

I need to learn it.

It seems like a more user friendly ENZO in ways.

I hated ENZO.

So this may end up good thing.

Right on the money

CracklePot

Streemur is currently on BlackFriday sale.
I have been having a blast running it into Gauss, so just throwing out there.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/streemur/id1307609511

david_2017

@CracklePot said:
Streemur is currently on BlackFriday sale.
I have been having a blast running it into Gauss, so just throwing out there.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/streemur/id1307609511

Absolutely. Thought the same. But unfortunately Streemur isn’t an AUv3 plugin

PeteSasqwax

Play it through the speaker of an old iPhone running Streemur into the mic of the Gauss iPad? No way Hainbach would disapprove of such methods!