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Comments
No. We're not talking about firmware here. We're talking about control.
Firmware and control are all owned by them, it's thier product. Even if you bought 200 novation circuits, you still don't own them you are only allowed to use them as intend by the company. This is nothing new All Apple products are the same. Think you own you ipad or iPhone think again. You don't own them you are only paying to use them via the rules the make. Read the user agreement. It's all in there in black and white.
I don't agree with this method at all but that's how it is for now.
Extreme example:
(Do you think a aircraft manufacturers would allow anyone to sell a system that controls the safety system they have put in place?)
What reason do they have to let you sell aproduct that controls their hardware?None.
Unknowingly, They may be working on something similar, or have tried it before. It's there progotive to do what they want. Unless you you own some kind of stake in the company which you don't. I'm pretty sure this is not the case if you have to email them to ask for permission.
@X3LA please send us some sources where this is set in stone. The first time I ever heard something like this. And it sounds very very Strange to me That I am not owning the device 🤔
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/who-really-owns-your-iphone-it-may-not-be-you-129321095449.html
http://mediactive.com/9-1-3-freedom-to-tinker-who-owns-your-iphone-anyway/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2015-10-23-apple-doj-iphone.html
Oh god! My cats are sitting on an Ikea sofa WITHOUT COMPANY PERMISSION. And what’s more, They’ve moved one of the cushions. I expect a legal letter at any moment.
Frankly, the arguments advanced here in support of Novation are a bit over the top. Someone has stepped in to provide a service that Novation hasn’t bothered to do in the five or so years that the Circuit has been on sale. And Novation crush the guy.
It’s not a legal matter. It’s just being a bully.
https://linustechtips.com/topic/1120251-you-dont-own-iphone-apple-owns-you/
Thanks for saving me the typing.
Also if you are not happy with a product or company. Just return it or don't buy anything from them. Boycott them. No one is forced to buy these products. It's more buyers remorse. If you buy a crappy device don't expect the world.
haha absolutely! hopefully the beta stays around for a while
If it’s just CC and NRPN messages it could be done in MIDI Designer Pro...
There's also some SysEx communication involved but I've seen a template done for Lemur on liine.net.
“
1992
Novation founded by Ian Jannaway and Mark Thompson – Originally called Novation Electronic Music Systems, the company started with the MM10, a keyboard add-on for the Yamaha QY10, the two together making up an effective workstation. It was followed by the more versatile MM10-X. “
https://www.musictech.net/features/novation-a-company-history/
http://www.muzines.co.uk/ad/8283
Given Novation’s own start in the industry (see above) , this is doubly difficult to understand .
I have always admired them for their innovation & support , & noticed with their PR they were
inclusive to other brands , with company reps such as Calc & Ricky Tinez always integrating their Novation PR setups with other companies ( Elektron , Akai etc ) . They also seem to encourage open source / third party firmware activity with their Launchpad range , so for all these reasons this seems at odds with their usual public image & I would urge them to reconsider .
(edited photo to show original advert , specific mention of Yamaha QY10)
I think people are jumping to a lot of conclusions without any of us knowing all the facts. It may have nothing to do with functionality and could be all about how the app was described. If an app mentions someone else’s product, that is a gray area (ever notice how many amp and FX sims go to great length to not mention what they are simulations of).
Maybe Novation or Apple is being a bully but maybe not. Maybe the way the app was presented that gray area.
One could write an app that controls a Launchpad or do what Components does but would have be careful about presenting it as such or mentioning Novation or Launchpad without first clearing it with them. If your description didn’t mention Novation or use images too close to seeming like depictions of their products, you’d be ok.
The people that approve apps are not lawyers and so Apple probably has lawyers draw up generic rules to keep Apple out of trouble that are overly broad. One way of doing that is to say, “if an app mentions a product, the product IP wonder needs to give permission before we can release it.”
It might seem like a stupid rule, but it isn’t malicious.
Anyway, maybe I am wrong about this but I’d guess the app’s description or depictions of a Circuit or something Circuit-like landed it in a gray area.
Are you sure you got the point of this thread?
MIDISynth Control works well with Circuit and has been out for awhile. It also works with LaunchControl and other Novation products.
Perhaps they have an exclusive deal with them.
There’s also Patch Base which is a patch editor for a whole range of hardware synths.
Maybe the name, app store description, UI, and screenshots are slightly more vague, and less copyright infringing, and it was reviewed by a different Apple employee.
If the functionality is fairly simple to begin with, then a developer could create something that creates things, and that would be approved. Mozaic, MIDI Designer 2...
No ovation for Novation then...
It's definitely doable.
I used MIDI Designer for this Circuit Editor, but also had the Streambyter module in MIDIFire parsing the Sysex from a Patch dump, so that it will update all the controls in MD.
The biggest issue with that is the NRPNs. Each of these messages needed a delay between them otherwise all the values cancel each other out.
Also in the process of converting all the SB rules to the new Syntax and biggest challenge so far is getting those rules for the Editor, Macro & Matrix pages not to get in each others way.
I'm slightly concerned about all of this. I wouldn't want Atom 2 be rejected (or later removed) from the App Store just because it has integration with Novation hardware.
Just don't mention the hardware or include pictures that resemble it and you should be fine.
Well, "hope nobody notices it" is a strategy, but not a bulletproof one.
Theoretically, what Atom 2 (and I expect also LK) is doing is no different from that Yurii is doing: we're both changing how the hardware behaves by sending it midi/sysex messages. Judging by the technical details alone, these apps are all the same.
If a hardware manufacturer has no intention of making their own iOS app to control their hardware, it’s bad of them to block an app written by someone else that works well. I’m not talking about legally or anything, just in terms of supporting their customers. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
It's slightly worse in the case of Novation Launchpad controllers specifically, since the Launchpad app on the App Store does exactly this: clip launching. So technically, I'm "competition".
To be clear, I don't believe this is the case, but it's a strawman that someone might be able to make.
As I said earlier, I suspect that it isn't because he was puppet-stringing the Novation stuff but has to do with how the app was presented. If you don't mention Novation and don't represent it as some sort of Novation front-end, you will be ok. And if you want to highlight those features, you'll want to co-ordinate with Novation.
We would need to see the materials that were submitted to Apple and the correspondence to have a better idea of why Apple referred him to Novation. Just steer clear of mentioning Novation (or any company) or their products in your app store description and pictures and you won't have a problem.
@blueveek Sounds like a valid concern. Atom 2 could attract a lot more attention than MIDISynth Control.
We don't know where Apple draws the line, we just know that an app named "Circuitry" crosses the line. And Novation might have been happy to look the other way, but maybe giving their permission is legally too similar to giving their endorsement. And Apple is probably looking at the big picture on a case-by-case basis, rather than banning integration with specific MIDI controllers.
So it's not as bad as "hope nobody notices it" but it's still not an ideal situation.
Just don't mention Novation. I am super doubtful that you would have any trouble with Apple or Novation if you stay away from talking about in your description or representing it as something made for manipulating their products. It is doubtful that they would care about your functionality -- but it might raise eyebrows if you mention them or make a representation that resembles one of their products.
Apple went to bed with Novation in Logic Pro when it got the Live Loops update so wise to be concerned.