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Why is ambient super popular (for iOS Producers)?
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This is art
https://s1.ppllstatics.com/laverdad/www/multimedia/202211/20/media/cortadas/174982724--1248x1888.jpg
This is bullshit
https://s1.abcstatics.com/media/cultura/2020/09/21/[email protected]
Why? What is the definition between art and bullshit?
Don’t forget that Andy Warhol’s soup cans where considered bullshit by quite a few people back in de 60s.
Exactly. These people are clueless. I make strictly Ambient and spend hours on just sound design alone. I will agree that my music is never going to be played on a dance floor unless I start making “The Orb” type Ambient. I love their ambient- dub style of music.
But at least Andy Warhol painted those, which takes skill. It takes no skill or thought to duct tape a banana to the wall and call it "art". The only time painting is involved with that "piece" is when the paint needs to be reapplied to the wall itself once the duct-taped banana is removed. Who knows, perhaps the banana "artist" was simply trolling people who believe mediocrity has value. 😂
But I see Onfray is alluding to Noise and Ambient taking no skill or thought. It takes no skill to record raw white noise on its own, but when you start applying filters, panning, and effects like bitcrushing to shape that white noise in intricate and complex ways, it transforms it into something far greater than it would on its own.
I used to think Generative music required little skill, but having to set up those complex systems and routings to operate just the way you want them to requires time and patience and skill. For me it's a bit of a pain in the bum, lol.
Have to disagree here. It does take some thought to stick a banana to a wall with duct tape actually haha. It's a statement, or rather, it's a question, about what art is and isn't. It might be fair to consider it as meta-art. You could argue that this piece is not very original, and it definitely owes a debt to Duchamp's urinal, done more than 100 years ago, but it is definitely doing its own take on that tradition.
https://www.vogue.com/article/the-120000-art-basel-banana-explained-maurizio-cattelan
Probably entire theses have been written on this. You can try and define art as involving skill, or beauty or whatever, but these definitions will run up against the reality of many counter-examples that are generally considered art. The question of what is art is a deep and fascinating one. People have more access to art today than at any time in the past. That loss of rarity arguably devalues art. Or does it? Does it make it more valuable? Then bring in the whole AI thing. Which matters more, process, intention or viewer perception, and why? Etc etc... Huge topic. People could definitely argue that the banana is mediocre art, but others could argue that it's a lot more interesting than yet another still life, portrait, photo, or whatever.
Pretty good food for thought, but I thought it was rather funny how one artist taped the banana to the wall, and another performance artist ate the banana as performance art. It seems the point of this type of "art" isn't so much what's on display but rather what goes on in the person's head creating it.
But yeah, I'll go to the supermarket and buy an apple and roll of duct tape to tape to the wall of a gallery and make $120,000 off of it.
I can call it "Forbidden Fruit" and pay off my car loan. 😆 Now don't steal or eat my idea.
All jokes aside now, what you wrote above is really poignant and thought-provoking, and it's making the wheels in my head spin into some deeper thought on the subject. The article was very well written while remaining concise. You have shared something that has opened my mind a bit more.
Maybe that is precisely the thing with that banana, that is takes no skill or thought. Maybe that’s the whole point of this work. Just like it was exactly the point of Warhol, to take an ordinary everyday object and call it art. To mock with the idea of what is supposed to be art and what not. What he did had nothing to do with skill. He just stole a photograph from Marilyn Monroe from a magazine and made screenprints from it. Most of his work where done in multiples by other people in his ‘factory’.
If you take white noise and start adding fx, at which point is it getting skillful, artistic? Where does it start? And does it have to be? Is it skillful to use a preset? Or make a drumloop while you can’t play drums. These are interesting thoughts. I don’t think you have to be skillful in order to bend something in such a way that it starts to touch people or make them think about it. That’s what that stupid banana did, people get angry or surprised by it, and start to question the set boundaries. It’s a mind fuck.
I don't listen to ambient at all really, but creating it myself is a lot of fun. Weird and beautiful noises a-go-go.
Same tbh... I rarely listen to ambient. I actually rarely listen to music these days lol. A lot more fun to noodle myself
the exponential growth of low–effort ambient and lofi hiphop tracks has boomed in recent years...feel bad for serious producers trying to get through all that noise and get their tracks heard
1,800,000 songs are uploaded on Spotify every month on average.
Low effort ambient and lofi hip hop aren’t the problem.
With the democratisation of music we have gained a huge amount. What we have lost is the gate keeping of music by arbiters of taste. It’s up to you to decide whether that’s a good or bad thing.
I dunno, you tell me…
Only noise and FX here. No instruments, or sequencers. Made, in part, as a kind of response to some of the points made here recently, and, er, ‘played’ live into AUM. So low effort, apparently, that it leaves me time to engage in, well, not strictly onanism these days, having no seed to spill upon the ground, I fixed that, but still…
Something fun, anyway. Making dinner, maybe?
Must dash.
But before I go
I see what you did there
i agree with you
i just notice that of all the genres, those 2 appear to me as being the easiest ones to churn out with low effort
And, if something is… effortful. Does that make it ‘better’? Asking for a friend.
Does it matter if there is low effort, it’s still interesting to listen too. There is beauty in simplicity.
It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child. -Pablo Picasso
There's only 2 things that really matter. The affect / meaning / engagement the creator finds in the making, and the affect / meaning / engagement the listener finds in the listening. And they're not necessarily related. Can maybe add a third factor - the communities that get built around the listening to and making of music. Oh, and the $$$$$$ 🤪
i agree all that counts is having a good time at the end.
@Svetlovska said:
My friend says no.
i was just making a general personal observation, didn‘t intend to offend anyone. i really enjoyed that ambient track Svetloska, great stuff.
Having friends... Far too much effort for am ambient guy like moi
Neither is an opinion, but a pure fact. There is nothing to be sorry about. You are also free to think that the earth is flat, and you can be proud of it, not sorry. 😅
“Noise is unwanted sound considered unpleasant, loud, or disruptive to hearing. From a physics standpoint, there is no distinction between noise and desired sound, as both are vibrations through a medium, such as air or water. The difference arises when the brain receives and perceives a sound.”
“Ambient music is a genre of music that emphasizes tone and atmosphere over traditional musical structure or rhythm. It may lack net composition, beat, or structured melody.[5] It uses textural layers of sound that can reward both passive and active listening[6] and encourage a sense of calm or contemplation.[7][8] The genre is said to evoke an "atmospheric", "visual",[9] or "unobtrusive" quality.[10] Nature soundscapes may be included, and the sounds of acoustic instruments such as the piano, strings and flute may be emulated through a synthesizer.”
Great pieces of art, lots of ’noisy’ colors, great example of what I was talking about. If I may notice, you even made an emotional connection with one of them. 😅
If I where Duct Tape, I would license that banana picture and use it on billboards.
I saw an interview with Gary Numan where Gary was very uncomfortable about being told he was a genius.
The synth line in ‘Cars’ was used as an example. Gary replied that he just held down one note because he didn’t know what note to play next and therefore wasn’t a genius but quite the opposite as he didn’t really know what he was doing.
However the real genius was knowing that holding down that one note playing that sound was exactly what was actually needed. And having the confidence to commit.
Who cares if it’s easy to play? The genius is in the idea not the dexterity required to play it.
There’s nothing clever or complex about holding down one key on a keyboard.
But that synth line in ‘Cars’ is genius.
Amen!
That's definitely what counts!
Those of you who don’t really listen to Ambient check out a band called Hammock.
It’s just two guys. Here give this a listen and try to tell me it’s boring.
That is absolutely gorgeous! It's a beautiful blend of Post Rock and Melodic Ambient.
So your opinion is to call music that other musicians love and appreciate “not music”?
Yeah I think I just need to not visit this thread again. Hearing other musicians tell other musicians what they make and like isn’t real music is super disrespectful. It’s fine to not like it but so many people here saying you need no musical knowledge to make it and it’s not real music is baffling.