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Desktop vs ios

124

Comments

  • edited November 2023

    No, you can use the very same interface on IOS and desktop.
    Processing and plugin resolution (in most cases) is equal, too.
    The difference is actually quite simple: in case of a „bad mix“ users don‘t listen (carefully) enough, regardless if IOS or desktop o:)

  • I see. I never noticed a degradation in audio quality with the IPad unless I used the built-in audio.

  • First of all, really great music is a rarity on desktop
    Or on iOS. As far as pro results goes , desktop is nom de Riguer and has been for years now . We just now this year got Logic Pro on iPad. Every time I see a post like this I think “Somebidy’s procrastinating “.

  • edited November 2023

    @HotStrange said:

    @Crano said:
    I’m really amazed at the fact that people apparently don’t hear the difference in sound quality. As much as I love iOS as a creative music platform and I despise sitting at a laptop, every iOS production I’ve ever heard has much less of a directness and punch to the sound as what I hear from Ableton Live productions for instance (is this the reason why everybody needs to use Transient or Knock on their drums on iOS?). Because hardware and software is getting difficult to differentiate nowadays. However for iOS this is totally different story. Maybe it could work for ambient, but when it’s a layered EDM production for instance, I have been unconvinced so far. I remember this problem from the early days of PC DAWs like early versions of Proppelorhead’s Reason. Not sure if it’s in the coding of apps or something with iOS (no adequate technical knowledge about coding). However I will continue to use a hybrid setup integrating hardware with iOS. But I’m still working to find ways to combat this problem on iOS.

    I’m aware this might be seen as hate, but it is not. I love iPad for music production but I’m passionate about certain sound qualities. I beg you please prove me wrong by showing music made on iOS that matches up to the sound of hardware production. I’m eager to listen.

    Ugh here we go again.

    Be careful! 😅

  • @Luxthor said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @Crano said:
    I’m really amazed at the fact that people apparently don’t hear the difference in sound quality. As much as I love iOS as a creative music platform and I despise sitting at a laptop, every iOS production I’ve ever heard has much less of a directness and punch to the sound as what I hear from Ableton Live productions for instance (is this the reason why everybody needs to use Transient or Knock on their drums on iOS?). Because hardware and software is getting difficult to differentiate nowadays. However for iOS this is totally different story. Maybe it could work for ambient, but when it’s a layered EDM production for instance, I have been unconvinced so far. I remember this problem from the early days of PC DAWs like early versions of Proppelorhead’s Reason. Not sure if it’s in the coding of apps or something with iOS (no adequate technical knowledge about coding). However I will continue to use a hybrid setup integrating hardware with iOS. But I’m still working to find ways to combat this problem on iOS.

    I’m aware this might be seen as hate, but it is not. I love iPad for music production but I’m passionate about certain sound qualities. I beg you please prove me wrong by showing music made on iOS that matches up to the sound of hardware production. I’m eager to listen.

    Ugh here we go again.

    Be careful! 😅

    🎣

  • @Telstar5 said:
    really great music is a rarity on desktop
    Or on iOS.

    great music and overproduction are often confused nowadays.

  • @chaocrator said:

    @Telstar5 said:
    really great music is a rarity on desktop
    Or on iOS.

    great music and overproduction are often confused nowadays.

    There's something worth framing!

  • @Gavinski said:

    @chaocrator said:

    @Telstar5 said:
    really great music is a rarity on desktop
    Or on iOS.

    great music and overproduction are often confused nowadays.

    There's something worth framing!

    Absolutely.

    I find it interesting that my current biggest influences (Hainbach and Sarah Belle Reid) both speak about embracing imperfection. Neither could be accused of being sloppy when it comes to quality, either.

    Hainbach is the reason that nearly all my music in the last two and a half years has been played “live” in AUM to an output bus and recorded straight to stereo. He did a video about going straight to stereo tape. He obviously does use a DAW etc too, but it’s the straight to stereo recording that’s stuck with me. I might do a tiny amount of fiddling in post (rarely, though), but that’s it. If the take isn’t right, I do another, if it’s still not there after three takes I change something, as it’s plainly not working - often it’s due to trying to do too much, and cutting something out makes things work.

    Sarah speaks about one of her best performances being one where half her kit broke just before starting, and just having to go with what she could get out of it. And accepting any imperfections as part of the work so you can finish a piece and move on.

    This is not to comprehensively diss meticulously crafted productions (a huge amount of skill involved, always worthy of respect), but I find a lot of stuff I hear on the radio has been overworked to the point of near sterility. And I’m wary of that pursuit of perfection, because it can so easily become a roadblock to actually making finished work.

    On the sound quality front, bear in mind that much of the great music of the last 60 or so years was made with equipment that was rudimentary compared to what you can do on your phone now. And that iOS’s audio and MIDI plumbing comes straight from MacOS, and now even the processor chips are the same in the posh ones, so any differences are due to technique or audio interfaces rather than being inherently superior/inferior. An iPad or iPhone is just a computer with a different interface in that respect.

  • @bygjohn 100% agreed. The vast majority of my music is also made live in AUM. And even when I use a DAW it’s mostly mastering those stems and maybe adding some flourishes. I feel more at home that way, and it just clicks. Something special about it for sure :)

  • My laptop sounds way better than my iPad, there's no denying it unless you're deaf. Whenever I tap on the top of my laptop it makes a sound like Thor's hammer covered in rose petals as it gently strikes a unicorn's horn. If I tap on my iPad, it just makes a small "thunk" sound.

    I don't know how people can not hear the difference.

  • edited November 2023

    IMO, if iOS had easier midi mapping to well-known MIDI controllers, it would be more popular. I've been on MPC Key 61 for over a year, and really enjoy keeping my fingers on keys and knobs, not iPad glass or desktop keyboards. (I work in software, so, man, I need a break!)

    Soundwise, yeah, desktop VSTs sound better. UVI libraries sound awesome. But iOS sounds are fine, especially to start for sketching composition. Again, please give me standard interfaces for my fingers that are dead simple.

  • @Tarekith said:
    My laptop sounds way better than my iPad, there's no denying it unless you're deaf. Whenever I tap on the top of my laptop it makes a sound like Thor's hammer covered in rose petals as it gently strikes a unicorn's horn. If I tap on my iPad, it just makes a small "thunk" sound.

    I don't know how people can not hear the difference.

    Perfectly summed up.

  • @Tarekith said:
    My laptop sounds way better than my iPad, there's no denying it unless you're deaf. Whenever I tap on the top of my laptop it makes a sound like Thor's hammer covered in rose petals as it gently strikes a unicorn's horn. If I tap on my iPad, it just makes a small "thunk" sound.

    I don't know how people can not hear the difference.

    I'm reasonably sure that the differences are highly subjective and influenced by many factors. Have you actually done a double-blind test? Did you use some mechanism to assure the same velocity of tap on both? Is the difference consistent across all velocities of tap?

    Equipment and listening placement are critical as well. Did you position the iPad in the same spot and on the same surface? If you held the iPad but not the notebook, resonances of the surface it rests would come into play. Which side of the iPad did you tap, the glass or the back? Did you have a case or screen protector installed on the iPad? Was this an iPad with a headphone jack (acts as a miniature horn and greatly influences thump tone).

    I think we need a thread to do some objective measurements, comparing carefully measured and recorded taps from both devices under more robust testing requirements. Different models of iPads and notebooks should be compared as well. It's a well known fact that Mac laptops have a far superior thump tone. I suppose we should test some Android devices as part of the blind test as well.

    Seriously, such subjective evaluations are of little use and may end up adversely influencing fledgling producers. I'm not worried about the Pros, most of whom have expensive desktops from the early days that they keep around for their rich thump tone. Not to mention that the thump wars are pretty much behind us anyway. But we should put this controversial topic to bed for the aspiring musicians among us.

  • I put both the iPad and the laptop on my desk and hit them with opposite hands, on different days even to rule out humidity and the pull of the moon. I'm a scientist, I know how to make fair comparisons thank you very much.

  • @Tarekith said:
    I put both the iPad and the laptop on my desk and hit them with opposite hands, on different days even to rule out humidity and the pull of the moon. I'm a scientist, I know how to make fair comparisons thank you very much.

    Are you left or right-handed though? You may have biased results towards your dominant hand.

    Perhaps you should find an ambidextrous person to repeat the test?

  • I think someone who lives on land all the time will be just fine, no need to find someone who lives on land and in the water for this test.

  • hahahaha

  • @Tarekith said:
    I think someone who lives on land all the time will be just fine, no need to find someone who lives on land and in the water for this test.

    :lol:

    Very good point!

  • edited November 2023

    Thanks for all the replies. For me it’s just a personal thing. I came from MPC’s before they had giant screens and still had a lot more oomph. If you never experienced a certain sound quality, it’s pretty much impossible to miss it. I guess most people around here already made up their minds. Which is fine. To each his own. One of my favorite producers (Madlib) claims he’s been using iPad to make his beats for years now. So I’m not knocking it, but I do hear a difference. Up until now I pick out ios productions in a blind A/B test everytime as long as it is exported digitally. But I should probably visit the elektronauts or gearspace forums to have conversations about these kinds of topics.

    Ps. For those whom it may concern, i found a solution to my issue by the name of analog heat 🔥

    ✌🏻

  • @Crano said:
    Thanks for all the replies. For me it’s just a personal thing. I came from MPC’s before they had giant screens and still had a lot more oomph. If you never experienced a certain sound quality, it’s pretty much impossible to miss it. I guess most people around here already made up their minds. Which is fine. To each his own. One of my favorite producers (Madlib) claims he’s been using iPad to make his beats for years now. So I’m not knocking it, but I do hear a difference. Up until now I pick out ios productions in a blind A/B test everytime as long as it is exported digitally. But I should probably visit the elektronauts or gearspace forums to have conversations about these kinds of topics.

    Ps. For those whom it may concern, i found a solution to my issue by the name of analog heat 🔥

    ✌🏻

    I had an MPC60 up until recently. If you like that sound, nothing else really does it.

    Being able to hear amateur production and sound quality are different things.

  • @Crano said:
    Thanks for all the replies. For me it’s just a personal thing. I came from MPC’s before they had giant screens and still had a lot more oomph. If you never experienced a certain sound quality, it’s pretty much impossible to miss it. I guess most people around here already made up their minds. Which is fine. To each his own. One of my favorite producers (Madlib) claims he’s been using iPad to make his beats for years now. So I’m not knocking it, but I do hear a difference. Up until now I pick out ios productions in a blind A/B test everytime as long as it is exported digitally. But I should probably visit the elektronauts or gearspace forums to have conversations about these kinds of topics.

    Ps. For those whom it may concern, i found a solution to my issue by the name of analog heat 🔥

    ✌🏻

    No offense but I just find that hard to believe. Even the most successful and experienced producers couldn’t tell a well produced iOS song from desktop every single time in a double blind test.

    I think the issue is you’re listening to amateur songs made on iOS and comparing it to more seasoned producers using a deksrop

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    @BroCoast said:
    Being able to hear amateur production and sound quality are different things.

    Well said. That sums up the nonsense notion that the platform matters perfectly.

  • edited November 2023

    @wim said:

    @BroCoast said:
    Being able to hear amateur production and sound quality are different things.

    Well said. That sums up the nonsense notion that the platform matters perfectly.

    Yep, absolutely ridiculous

  • @HotStrange said:

    @Crano said:
    Thanks for all the replies. For me it’s just a personal thing. I came from MPC’s before they had giant screens and still had a lot more oomph. If you never experienced a certain sound quality, it’s pretty much impossible to miss it. I guess most people around here already made up their minds. Which is fine. To each his own. One of my favorite producers (Madlib) claims he’s been using iPad to make his beats for years now. So I’m not knocking it, but I do hear a difference. Up until now I pick out ios productions in a blind A/B test everytime as long as it is exported digitally. But I should probably visit the elektronauts or gearspace forums to have conversations about these kinds of topics.

    Ps. For those whom it may concern, i found a solution to my issue by the name of analog heat 🔥

    ✌🏻

    No offense but I just find that hard to believe. Even the most successful and experienced producers couldn’t tell a well produced iOS song from desktop every single time in a double blind test.

    I think the issue is you’re listening to amateur songs made on iOS and comparing it to more seasoned producers using a deksrop

    Yeah, I think there’s zero chance that anyone could hear the difference. This same comparison claim has been made multiple times on multiple sites for various hardware/software for years now, so I think most people are tired of hearing this type of claim.

  • Hardware is tactile and in my opinion (depending on what it is) sounds better a lot of times.
    iOS is wayyyyyy more inspiring to me and more hands on
    The computer that’s where all the above goes to be finalized mostly

  • edited November 2023

    I'm mostly a hardware guy, I only need software for effects, arrangement and mixing. And here is my take: the iPad is a way cheaper option compared to desktop computers.

    The software is so much cheaper, I've probably spent $250 overall and I'm set for life, on a computer that would be thousands of dollars for the exact same plugins.

    If I had the money, I'd use a desktop computer. Not because the sound is better (it isn't), just because of better workflow. But I've spent all my money on hardware, so iPad is the way.

    Once I get filthy rich, I'll probably get a Mac Mini and one of those fancy iConnectivity interfaces that have loads of digital channels you can route between your PC and your iPad, then I can treat the iPad as a super powerful multi effect unit. Just gotta get rich first. Any day now.

  • @michael_m said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @Crano said:
    Thanks for all the replies. For me it’s just a personal thing. I came from MPC’s before they had giant screens and still had a lot more oomph. If you never experienced a certain sound quality, it’s pretty much impossible to miss it. I guess most people around here already made up their minds. Which is fine. To each his own. One of my favorite producers (Madlib) claims he’s been using iPad to make his beats for years now. So I’m not knocking it, but I do hear a difference. Up until now I pick out ios productions in a blind A/B test everytime as long as it is exported digitally. But I should probably visit the elektronauts or gearspace forums to have conversations about these kinds of topics.

    Ps. For those whom it may concern, i found a solution to my issue by the name of analog heat 🔥

    ✌🏻

    No offense but I just find that hard to believe. Even the most successful and experienced producers couldn’t tell a well produced iOS song from desktop every single time in a double blind test.

    I think the issue is you’re listening to amateur songs made on iOS and comparing it to more seasoned producers using a deksrop

    Yeah, I think there’s zero chance that anyone could hear the difference. This same comparison claim has been made multiple times on multiple sites for various hardware/software for years now, so I think most people are tired of hearing this type of claim.

    Yeah same thing as the guys who claim to be able to tell a hardware synth vs software clone in a mix every time. Or when a pad in a track is analog or VA, etc etc. It’s definitely an old and tired argument and, in my experience, has been false every time.

    I’m not sure if it was here or a different group but I remember a comparison of the iMS20 and the actual MS20 had some people that've had a hardware version for years stumped as to which was which.

    We all like to think we can tell but in the end product it’s nearly impossible to know if it’s desktop, iOS, hardware, software, etc.

  • This is getting boring. Can we get a good 432 Hz vs 440 Hz tuning debate going? It’s been awhile.

  • .

    @wim said:

    @Tarekith said:
    My laptop sounds way better than my iPad, there's no denying it unless you're deaf. Whenever I tap on the top of my laptop it makes a sound like Thor's hammer covered in rose petals as it gently strikes a unicorn's horn. If I tap on my iPad, it just makes a small "thunk" sound.

    I don't know how people can not hear the difference.

    I'm reasonably sure that the differences are highly subjective and influenced by many factors. Have you actually done a double-blind test? Did you use some mechanism to assure the same velocity of tap on both? Is the difference consistent across all velocities of tap?

    Equipment and listening placement are critical as well. Did you position the iPad in the same spot and on the same surface? If you held the iPad but not the notebook, resonances of the surface it rests would come into play. Which side of the iPad did you tap, the glass or the back? Did you have a case or screen protector installed on the iPad? Was this an iPad with a headphone jack (acts as a miniature horn and greatly influences thump tone).

    I think we need a thread to do some objective measurements, comparing carefully measured and recorded taps from both devices under more robust testing requirements. Different models of iPads and notebooks should be compared as well. It's a well known fact that Mac laptops have a far superior thump tone. I suppose we should test some Android devices as part of the blind test as well.

    Seriously, such subjective evaluations are of little use and may end up adversely influencing fledgling producers. I'm not worried about the Pros, most of whom have expensive desktops from the early days that they keep around for their rich thump tone. Not to mention that the thump wars are pretty much behind us anyway. But we should put this controversial topic to bed for the aspiring musicians among us.

    Hahaha! This is gold! 😂

  • @wim said:
    This is getting boring. Can we get a good 432 Hz vs 440 Hz tuning debate going? It’s been awhile.

    432 is the healthier version is it not? and I believe Satan had something to do with 440…is that a good starter?

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