Atom | Piano Roll 2 is now available

vasilymilovidov

@blueveek said:

@mbncp said:
How many "oddities" in that video. The winner gets a chickpea (if Raandy Hoover didn't get it first)
Doubles don't count

I think most of that is explained by the fact that Cubasis sends a 'sustain off' and 'notes off' at every the loop start.

For the other bit where some notes are audible while the clip is stopped, I can't offer you an explanation without more details about how everything is being set up.

I assume that project built with the beta. Please send me beta issue reports directly, because it can otherwise get a little confusing.

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

https://patchstorage.com/pattern-control-drambo-rack-for-atom2-and-aum/

Nice!

I know this isn't obvious, but FYI, please don't post Atom projects built using the beta. It's called 'beta' for a reason.

damn, i forgot that it was beta. i’ll reupload it later

ashh

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

vasilymilovidov

@ashh said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

different patterns from one instance of atom can’t run simultaneously if that’s what you mean.

but as i understand you will be able to route different midi notes to different channels in a future update

blueveek

@ashh said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

Let's entertain the idea for a bit. If each pattern is "triggering a different MIDI channel", simultaneously, then how would that work with MPE where each note has its own channel? (I'm specifically talking about MIDI channels here).

auxmux

@blueveek said:

@ashh said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

Let's entertain the idea for a bit. If each pattern is "triggering a different MIDI channel", simultaneously, then how would that work with MPE where each note has its own channel? (I'm specifically talking about MIDI channels here).

I like this idea as well, but I think the user would have to disable MPE when using Atom like this. In this scenario, it would make sense to have 1 instance of Atom for MPE and another for multitrack / pattern routing.

blueveek

@auxmux said:

@blueveek said:

@ashh said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

Let's entertain the idea for a bit. If each pattern is "triggering a different MIDI channel", simultaneously, then how would that work with MPE where each note has its own channel? (I'm specifically talking about MIDI channels here).

I like this idea as well, but I think the user would have to disable MPE when using Atom like this. In this scenario, it would make sense to have 1 instance of Atom for MPE and another for multitrack / pattern routing.

While tempting, and while advanced users will understand it, it leads to an overall fractured workflow where creating or recording "clips" is seemingly arbitrarily different depending on whether or not a user wants to record MPE. This spirals out of control quickly, especially if the decision is made after the fact. It doesn't matter if the underlying architecture demands it, the user experience is broken for "technical reasons" that could be hard to explain.

The solution is to fix clip organization in hosts. If enough users demand it, it might happen. Alternatively, if the support and UX for multi-port output becomes better across hosts, then that's also a technically sound approach. But MIDI channels, as a blanket solution to fit all needs, are not.

The cognitive overhead associated to working with different instances is caused by the fact that there's often a bit of workflow overhead in setting things up, especially in AUM. But this is fixable, and there's no reason why creating a clip can't be as simple as creating a clip in a desktop DAW.

vasilymilovidov

i really don’t see how this ability to control all of your instruments from one instance of atom using patterns is convenient in atom’s structure which is more vertical than horizontal, if i may say so

ashh

@blueveek said:

@ashh said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
I’ve made a little drambo midi machine that controls pattern switching in Atom2 via ccv. CV Sequencer switches patterns and you can randomize it by applying an lfo to steps shifting. You can also use XY Pad to switch patterns more performatively.

Instead of switching patterns, is it possible to use each one to trigger a different midi channel? So there's one instance of Atom 2, say 5 patterns and each one is routed out to a different plugin. Is that doable?

Let's entertain the idea for a bit. If each pattern is "triggering a different MIDI channel", simultaneously, then how would that work with MPE where each note has its own channel? (I'm specifically talking about MIDI channels here).

I'm not sure but I don't really understand MPE so I turn that off. If I'm honest, this being my 2nd year of doing all this, MIDI is still quite a mystery. What happened was that I saved an auto-generated tune as a midi file and then opened it in Atom 2. Atom 2 said that there were 5 different patterns and I imagine that they were the midi for each instrument. So what I wanted to do was something like Ableton where you have the clips lined up in columns etc. I understand that Atom 2 is not Ableton but it was that kind of function that I was hoping to gain. Am I being a bit too hopeful?

blueveek

@ashh said:
So what I wanted to do was something like Ableton where you have the clips lined up in columns etc. I understand that Atom 2 is not Ableton but it was that kind of function that I was hoping to gain. Am I being a bit too hopeful?

Ah, for sure that's possible! In fact, it's the best way to work with Atom, and replicating the workflows supported by Ableton Sessions is what I'm aiming for.

Take a look at the information provided in my first post in this thread, and these two session videos, and this tutorial from @FloRi89.

When working with MIDI, to import a different pattern in each clip, use the Global Clipboard or import multiple times and delete the patterns you don't need.

Here's a refresher:

Pad assignment

Placing your clips onto pads and organizing them into sessions is different from what you might be used to with other plugins. Atom 2 has special integration with AUM so that your session is mirrored onto supported controllers by default.

Zoom out a bit in how you think about using the plugin: don't think of Atom as a standalone audio unit. Think of one Atom as representing a clip placed on rows and columns (tracks and slots) inside an AUM project, just like with Ableton’s "Session" view:

• AUM MIDI channels (tracks) with Atom clips are columns on your controller.
• AUM AU nodes (slots) with Atom clips are rows on your controller.
• Empty channels and nodes in AUM will be empty pads on your controller.
• AUM's node color (long press titlebar to assign one) will be closely matched to a supported color.

For other hosts, you can configure pad assignment yourself using the “Clip” menu.

Auto-routing

No routing is necessary for the usual workflows when using supported controllers! You don’t need to constantly fumble around with the MIDI matrix to connect and disconnect the controller. If a scripted controller is connected:

• Open a clip (make the instance visible) if you want to noodle around and experiment.
• Arm a clip (even when the instance isn’t visible, directly from the controller) to record.

The record arm function is automatically available on the Launchpad X and Pro Mk3. Parameter mapping for opening and arming clips is available for all controllers (including non-scripted ones) in hosts that support it.

Of course, you'll still need to point your clips to the instruments you want sequenced

mbncp

@blueveek said:

@mbncp said:
How many "oddities" in that video. The winner gets a chickpea (if Raandy Hoover didn't get it first)
Doubles don't count

I think most of that is explained by the fact that Cubasis sends a 'sustain off' and 'notes off' at every the loop start.

>
I think that Cubasis sends them only on stop, not on loop (checked with Mozaic and Streambyter)

For the other bit where some notes are audible while the clip is stopped, I can't offer you an explanation without more details about how everything is being set up.

Settings-> Cubasis 3 -> Load Empty project ... checked
Start Cubasis 3, set it to loop after 5 bars, add an instance of Atom 2(any version AFAIK, no script), add 3 notes (one that starts at the beginning and one that stops at the last bar) .

I assume that project built with the beta. Please send me beta issue reports directly, because it can otherwise get a little confusing.

I did send a beta report 2-3 ? weeks ago (TestFlight)

Not sure about the chopped note but when Cubasis doesn't loop I don't have the other problems.
This could be related to this:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/948207/#Comment_948207

I would prefer that Atom 2 isn't in song mode (resetting on loop). If I have a 2 bars loop in cubasis and an 8 bars loop in Atom, I would prefer that Atom plays the 8 bars, ignoring Cubasis loop. I could always add a trigger if that's I want.

blueveek

@mbncp said:

@blueveek said:

@mbncp said:
How many "oddities" in that video. The winner gets a chickpea (if Raandy Hoover didn't get it first)
Doubles don't count

I think most of that is explained by the fact that Cubasis sends a 'sustain off' and 'notes off' at every the loop start.

I think that Cubasis sends them only on stop, not on loop (checked with Mozaic and Streambyter)

Interesting, that's good, thanks. It definitely used to be the case, so I'm glad that's changed.

For the other bit where some notes are audible while the clip is stopped, I can't offer you an explanation without more details about how everything is being set up.

Settings-> Cubasis 3 -> Load Empty project ... checked
Start Cubasis 3, set it to loop after 5 bars, add an instance of Atom 2(any version AFAIK, no script), add 3 notes (one that starts at the beginning and one that stops at the last bar) .

I assume that project built with the beta. Please send me beta issue reports directly, because it can otherwise get a little confusing.

I did send a beta report 2-3 ? weeks ago (TestFlight)

Indeed. I did a little bit of digging back then, and some of the odd behavior might be caused by the fact that Cubasis seems to be reporting that the transport has stopped when looping back to the start (which is not true, transport has looped back, but didn't stop). This only seems to be happening when the start loop brace in Cubasis is at 0, as I can't seem to get any odd behavior when other parts of the host's timeline are being looped. Similarly, as you've said, nothing odd happens when the looping is turned off on the Cubasis side. Atom is particularly sensitive to this behavior, since stopping is important, and can have side-effects depending on the launch modes and particularly the trigger and release beat settings.

Not sure about the chopped note but when Cubasis doesn't loop I don't have the other problems.
This could be related to this:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/948207/#Comment_948207

Could be! I'll have to take a closer look.

ashh

@blueveek said:

@ashh said:
So what I wanted to do was something like Ableton where you have the clips lined up in columns etc. I understand that Atom 2 is not Ableton but it was that kind of function that I was hoping to gain. Am I being a bit too hopeful?

Ah, for sure that's possible! In fact, it's the best way to work with Atom, and replicating the workflows supported by Ableton Sessions is what I'm aiming for.

Take a look at the information provided in my first post in this thread, and these two session videos, and this tutorial from @FloRi89.

When working with MIDI, to import a different pattern in each clip, use the Global Clipboard or import multiple times and delete the patterns you don't need.

Here's a refresher:

Pad assignment

Placing your clips onto pads and organizing them into sessions is different from what you might be used to with other plugins. Atom 2 has special integration with AUM so that your session is mirrored onto supported controllers by default.

Zoom out a bit in how you think about using the plugin: don't think of Atom as a standalone audio unit. Think of one Atom as representing a clip placed on rows and columns (tracks and slots) inside an AUM project, just like with Ableton’s "Session" view:

• AUM MIDI channels (tracks) with Atom clips are columns on your controller.
• AUM AU nodes (slots) with Atom clips are rows on your controller.
• Empty channels and nodes in AUM will be empty pads on your controller.
• AUM's node color (long press titlebar to assign one) will be closely matched to a supported color.

For other hosts, you can configure pad assignment yourself using the “Clip” menu.

Auto-routing

No routing is necessary for the usual workflows when using supported controllers! You don’t need to constantly fumble around with the MIDI matrix to connect and disconnect the controller. If a scripted controller is connected:

• Open a clip (make the instance visible) if you want to noodle around and experiment.
• Arm a clip (even when the instance isn’t visible, directly from the controller) to record.

The record arm function is automatically available on the Launchpad X and Pro Mk3. Parameter mapping for opening and arming clips is available for all controllers (including non-scripted ones) in hosts that support it.

Of course, you'll still need to point your clips to the instruments you want sequenced

You beauty! Many many thanks.

vasilymilovidov

@blueveek i'm experimenting with sending notes to different midi channels and was at first very happy that channel menu is in fact a very nice interface for muting and unmuting, well, parts. the problem is there's an audible hiccup after ticking or unticking channels. not always, most of the time it works perfectly, but it happens.

but other than that it's actually A LOT of fun. you can do different parts in one instance of atom and somehow it makes me wanna make some very bad house music.

blueveek

@vasilymilovidov said:
@blueveek i'm experimenting with sending notes to different midi channels and was at first very happy that channel menu is in fact a very nice interface for muting and unmuting, well, parts. the problem is there's an audible hiccup after ticking or unticking channels. not always, most of the time it works perfectly, but it happens.

Hmm, I’m willing to bet that what you’re hearing is the auto-panic feature coming into play. Atom is “obsessed” with avoiding stuck notes, so if it detects the possibility that it might happen, it will panic for you. If you disable a MIDI channel while it’s playing, you will get stuck notes, hence the forced panic.

but other than that it's actually A LOT of fun. you can do different parts in one instance of atom and somehow it makes me wanna make some very bad house music.

Yeah, it’s a good alternative to opening up many instances. People who want to keep everything under one roof could work this way, but suffice to say I’d still strongly recommend going the clip route instead.

In short, multi-channel notes in a single clip is an MPE feature, that can be “abused” to make single clips play multiple instruments. Up to the user if they want to do that

vasilymilovidov

@blueveek said:
Yeah, it’s a good alternative to opening up many instances. People who want to keep everything under one roof could work this way, but suffice to say I’d still strongly recommend going the clip route instead.

In short, multi-channel notes in a single clip is an MPE feature, that can be “abused” to make single clips play multiple instruments. Up to the user if they want to do that

i don't think it's worth it to do some complex arrangements this way, but i'm sure there are a lot of people who would disagree.
right now i see this feature (apart from mpe) as a way to link events on different channels — like for example, some particular event is happening on channel 3 only when a certain pattern (containing mostly events for channel 2) plays. or something like that.

Edward_Alexander

@blueveek said:

MPE and black-box automation are coming in the next update.

There’s going to be so much great music made with Atom 2. The sky is the limit!

And a quick note to those that might still be on the fence, Atom 2 can still be used the same way you love and remember using the original Atom. As demonstrated here: (shameless plug)

The beauty of it is truly the modularity. You can use instances in AUM alongside instances in Drambo. Use it however you want! With everything we have right now I’d never need to go back to the desktop. And things just keep getting better!

vasilymilovidov

@blueveek is it possible to make the scale search field less sensitive to pencil - it catches it every time i try to change or tick something close to it?

blueveek

@vasilymilovidov said:
@blueveek is it possible to make the scale search field less sensitive to pencil - it catches it every time i try to change or tick something close to it?

Maybe, I could reduce the touch area around it. It's just with the pencil though, right? I have similar issues in safari for example as well – when I'm trying to tap the "x" with the pencil to clear the url bar will always inadvertently end up with scribbled gibberish. Or when trying to select a tab, same thing.

vasilymilovidov

@blueveek said:

@vasilymilovidov said:
@blueveek is it possible to make the scale search field less sensitive to pencil - it catches it every time i try to change or tick something close to it?

Maybe, I could reduce the touch area around it. It's just with the pencil though, right? I have similar issues in safari for example as well – when I'm trying to tap the "x" with the pencil to clear the url bar will always inadvertently end up with scribbled gibberish. Or when trying to select a tab, same thing.

yeah, it’s a common problem with the pencil, but maybe bc everything is so tightly spaced in the scales menu it happens much more frequently.

blueveek

Version 2.0.7 - MPE is here!

...is out and includes the following:

MPE and automation

• Added support for MPE recording. All new clips will have MPE enabled by default, no configuration required!
• Added support for pitch bend, modulation, sustain etc, as “black box” automation recording. Each pattern has its own dedicated automation group, which includes all event lanes.
• Added “Multi-Channel” support: each note, in each pattern, in each clip, can have its own dedicated MIDI channel. Each clip can be configured to output in “filter” or “funnel” mode.
• Recording will honor the MIDI channels for incoming MIDI events.
• Note entry will honor the MIDI channel and velocity settings specified in the new “Advanced Add” panel.
• Included a “MIDI Channel Colors” style: enable it to colorize notes based on their individual channels.

Note: To turn on MPE for clips created in previous versions, enable “MPE” and “tick all” channels from the Output toolbar.

New features

• MIDI import is now non-destructive: all other patterns, settings, and history will be preserved in the current clip, and only new patterns will be added for each lane in the MIDI file. Each pattern has its own grid, time signature, bar count and loop makers.
• Scales can be fuzzy-filtered. Search for scales by their name, mode, or notes. Bad spelling works too.
• Patterns can now also be switched with CC values. Map patterns to a rotary encoder (knob) on your controller, in any host.

Tweaks and fixes

• Added: Playhead position will now be remembered in the history stack. Useful when undoing step-input.
• Added: All the non-destructive processes now have toggles for snapping the effect strength.
• Added: Configurations now include preferred styles. E.g. setting "Larger Controls" will now apply the appropriate fonts by default (but still overridable).
• Added: Logs will include messages about which ports are disconnected.
• Fixed an unintuitive off-by-one situation when launching patterns with velocity.
• Fixed an issue where recording wouldn't work as expected with audio units which sometimes never off'ed notes (e.g. Autony).
• Improved: The total memory usage is now down to ~90mb per 512 instances.
• Improved: MIDI files with incorrect file extensions can now also be imported.

Please consider leaving an honest review on the App Store if you haven’t already.

Stuntman_mike

MPE… 🤯

reasOne

Wow!!!

nickneek

Woohoo!

Stuntman_mike

Developer and app of the year in my book 🏆

gusgranite

@blueveek BLUEVEEK!!!!

You are a BEAST!

💥⚡️✨🌟🔥🌈

Fingolfinzz

This update :’) 👏👏👏

Samu

I guess next up is the option to select which midi channel to edit & record (to avoid changing midi channel on the controller) and select notes on.

Currently the select tool selects on all channels which is good for MPE & arrangement purposes but not so good when editing individual channels.

When this happens a ‘auto ghost unselected channel/channels’ could be a handy tool to simulate layers.

That’s at least part of my ‘wish list’

MisplacedDevelopment

@blueveek mega update, so much to play with there. I notice the patch also included a fix for the stuck GUI issue, I can confirm that one of my instances that had got stuck is no longer stuck so it seems to have done the job, thanks

MisplacedDevelopment

I had not considered it before but this effectively adds MPE support to all DAWs that can host Atom doesn’t it?

Edit: I guess it is still up to the host to ensure all channels are passed to and from the plugin which may not be the case in many DAWs. Some DAWs also funnel everything to channel 1 so things like GeoShred won’t work for MPE shakes fist at NS2

rs2000

Nice update @blueveek!
Dumb question: How can I unlock X/Y when zooming?
When editing 4 octaves on screen, the vertical zoom level works well but the horizontal axis is much too narrow, almost impossible to place notes at the correct time position.