Affinity Feature in App Store

dobbs

@AlanC3 said:

@Carnbot said:
They can do it now with the whole bundle and Affinity ID though

Yes, if you created an ID with them, registered your previous App Store purchase to that ID and then bought the update through their website then they could offer you an additional discount as an existing customer.

I'm not sure if that's permitted under Apple's terms and conditions, though: there certainly used to be a section that said the cost of an in-app purchase had to be the same price or less than the equivalent purchase offered outside the app.

Edit:

No, they won't allow it:

3.1 Payments

3.1.1 In-App Purchase:

If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrency wallets, etc. Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase, except as set forth in 3.1.3(a).

[...]

So Affinity's bundle is allowable because you're purchasing it via IAP and the ID is simply being used as a means to communicate the fact you've purchased the bundle to the other apps.

Wasn't there this class action lawsuit that changed this? https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-settles-lawsuit-to-allow-developers-to-use-payment-systems-outside-of-app-store/

You can buy the PC+Mac+iOS universal license online. So either way, Affinity is bypassing the apple payment system in some cases.

Carnbot

@AlanC3 said:

@Carnbot said:
They can do it now with the whole bundle and Affinity ID though

Yes, if you created an ID with them, registered your previous App Store purchase to that ID and then bought the update through their website then they could offer you an additional discount as an existing customer.

I'm not sure if that's permitted under Apple's terms and conditions, though: there certainly used to be a section that said the cost of an in-app purchase had to be the same price or less than the equivalent purchase offered outside the app.

Edit:

No, they won't allow it:

3.1 Payments

3.1.1 In-App Purchase:

If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrency wallets, etc. Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase, except as set forth in 3.1.3(a).

3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video). Reader apps may offer account creation for free tiers, and account management functionality for existing customers. Reader app developers may apply for the External Link Account Entitlement to provide an informational link in their app to a web site the developer owns or maintains responsibility for in order to create or manage an account.

So Affinity's bundle is allowable because you're purchasing it via IAP and the ID is simply being used as a means to communicate the fact you've purchased the bundle to the other apps.

Yeah, I'm not sure how it is setup with Affinity/Serif exactly because I haven't bought the whole bundle yet, but it looks like you can buy the whole bundle including ipad apps without any need of the appstore. So you just login in with the ID.
I think this is due to the recent lawsuit which meant Apple has to allow it, but I'm not sure of all the details. I know that they have allowed it in discretion to certain companies depending in the past on if it suits Apple or not.

AlanC3

@dobbs said:

You can buy the PC+Mac+iOS universal license online, so it seems like either this info is outdated or they break it...

That's the current version from the guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

So I have no idea how that got round that one with Apple.

dobbs

@AlanC3 said:

@monz0id said:
An upgrade option like most developers provide by keeping the old version active for a short while, and providing a ‘bundle’ discount with the new version, would have demonstrated to existing customers that their support has been valued.

Serious question: can you give an example of this being done for apps purchased through the App Store? I've seen it done to unlock apps that switched from being paid to free+IAP, but not for upgrades.

I remember Patterning 2 used to do it that way, or digistix 2: https://apps.apple.com/de/app-bundle/digistix-upgrade-bundle/id1577480881

AlanC3

@dobbs said:
I remember Patterning 2 used to do it that way, or digistix 2: https://apps.apple.com/de/app-bundle/digistix-upgrade-bundle/id1577480881

Thanks. Yes, that would result in you getting charged the price difference between the bundle and the app you'd already purchased rather than the full price of the new app.

[Deleted User]

@AlanC3 said:

@monz0id said:
An upgrade option like most developers provide by keeping the old version active for a short while, and providing a ‘bundle’ discount with the new version, would have demonstrated to existing customers that their support has been valued.

Serious question: can you give an example of this being done for apps purchased through the App Store? I've seen it done to unlock apps that switched from being paid to free+IAP, but not for upgrades.

As @dobbs has said.

There have been a number of bundle deals like this over the years, but regardless of how many, the fact is that it can be done.

As well as the snub to existing customers, and the fact I'm going to have to find £90 to keep my previous purchases up to date, it sets a worrying new trend for future releases.

The only difference between this and a subscription, is that you are not given a date/timeframe for your purchase (which is in a way, worse), and they don't switch off your previous purchase. However, previous versions are not updated or supported.

knewspeak

@AlanC3 said:

@Carnbot said:
They can do it now with the whole bundle and Affinity ID though

Yes, if you created an ID with them, registered your previous App Store purchase to that ID and then bought the update through their website then they could offer you an additional discount as an existing customer.

I'm not sure if that's permitted under Apple's terms and conditions, though: there certainly used to be a section that said the cost of an in-app purchase had to be the same price or less than the equivalent purchase offered outside the app.

Edit:

No, they won't allow it:

3.1 Payments

3.1.1 In-App Purchase:

If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cryptocurrency wallets, etc. Apps and their metadata may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than in-app purchase, except as set forth in 3.1.3(a).

3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, and video). Reader apps may offer account creation for free tiers, and account management functionality for existing customers. Reader app developers may apply for the External Link Account Entitlement to provide an informational link in their app to a web site the developer owns or maintains responsibility for in order to create or manage an account.

So Affinity's bundle is allowable because you're purchasing it via IAP and the ID is simply being used as a means to communicate the fact you've purchased the bundle to the other apps.

Roland cloud subscription unlocks Zenbeats on iOS, so I’m not sure if the above applies totally.

Carnbot

Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

AlanC3

@monz0id said:
There have been a number of bundle deals like this over the years, but regardless of how many, the fact is that it can be done.

The only thing I can say here is that I was unaware you could use a bundle to effectively give an upgrade price by including both versions of the app. Of course, having seen it done, it's obvious. The only downside is the risk that someone might still buy V1 since it has to remain on sale.

But if it ever comes to the point where I wanted to V2 one of my apps then I'd definitely do it that way.

NeuM

@Gavinski said:

@Stuntman_mike said:

@Gavinski said:
Which, if any, of these ipad apps would be good for making thumbnails? I want to up my YT thumbnail game. Or if anyone has better suggestions, let me know, cheers!

Affinity Photo unless you want to make artwork

Thnx Mike, just to check, because it wasn't obvious from the description, you can add text within Photo with a lot of control over fonts etc?

You know, even though I hate their subscription model, you could also rent Adobe’s Photoshop and Illustrator for one month for a reasonable price to make the graphics you want. I still consider the Adobe workflow far, far better than Affinity’s. I just refuse to pay what Adobe wants for a year or any longer than I need their software for a project.

knewspeak

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

dobbs

@monz0id said:
There have been a number of bundle deals like this over the years, but regardless of how many, the fact is that it can be done.

I assume they'd argue the following: It can be done, yes, but then you can't give people a 30 day trial bc the app is no longer free+ IAP.

So then you'd have to add a separate app that allows for 30 day trial. But at this point we'd already have + 6 redundant apps in the app store...

Similar chaos to GeoSHRED that has 3 or 4 different apps that can all be unlocked into the identical full app via IAP...

Carnbot

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Yeah, will be interesting to see what happens

NeuM

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

dobbs

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

I don't think that would be legal...

NeuM

@dobbs said:

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

I don't think that would be legal...

Of course it would be. You can choose to run software they’ve approved and keep your right to sue for damages, or you can install software from unknown developers and give up the right to sue Apple for damages for corrupted or compromised software.

dobbs

You don't void your Windows or Android warranty, and especially not your hardware warranty when you install other software...

(maybe I mix up warranty and guarantee?)

NeuM

@dobbs said:
You don't void your Windows or Android warranty, and especially not your hardware warranty when you install other software...

Better read the fine print on the legal agreement you signed off on when you bought their devices.

knewspeak

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

That’s how it’s worked for year’s in the PC environment.

dobbs

Of course it would be. You can choose to run software they’ve approved and keep your right to sue for damages, or you can install software from unknown developers and give up the right to sue Apple for damages for corrupted or compromised software.

this is maybe the status quo for apple products, but isn't that exactly what the new EU law will change?

Also, no, installing an app on my samsung that is not from the google play store does not void my warranty. I'd like to see proof of that...

This is what the article said:

The DMA could force Apple to make major changes to the way the App Store, Messages, FaceTime, and Siri work in Europe. For example, it could be forced to allow users to install third-party app stores and sideload apps, give developers the ability to closely interoperate with Apple's own services and promote their offers outside the ‌‌App Store‌‌ and use third-party payment systems, and access data gathered by Apple.

So as soon as that has come into force, they can absolutely not void your warranty just because you installed unvetted crap that you are legally allowed to install

knewspeak

@dobbs said:

Of course it would be. You can choose to run software they’ve approved and keep your right to sue for damages, or you can install software from unknown developers and give up the right to sue Apple for damages for corrupted or compromised software.

this is maybe the status quo for apple products, but isn't that exactly what the new law will change?

Yes their agreement changes all the time, it’s why it’s renewed every major update or so.

[Deleted User]

@dobbs said:

@monz0id said:
There have been a number of bundle deals like this over the years, but regardless of how many, the fact is that it can be done.

I assume they'd argue the following: It can be done, yes, but then you can't give people a 30 day trial bc the app is no longer free+ IAP.

So then you'd have to add a separate app that allows for 30 day trial. But at this point we'd already have + 6 redundant apps in the app store...

Similar chaos to GeoSHRED that has 3 or 4 different apps that can all be unlocked into the identical full app via IAP...

These are three, very separate products though, so a different kettle of fish.

So for example they could remove the free trial from V1 and have:

Photo V1, discounted price, available for a limited period.
Photo V2, free trial + IAP.
Photo Bundle, limited period, includes V1 and V2, with discounted upgrade price for V1 owners.

3 months or whatever for V1 and the bundle, then just V2 and its IAP.

Nothing complicated in that, even I can understand it!

[Deleted User]

@AlanC3 said:
The only downside is the risk that someone might still buy V1 since it has to remain on sale.

You make it clear it’s available for a limited period.

As long as customers know what they’re buying, there shouldn’t be any confusion, and it’s better than removing it overnight and replacing it with a totally new app.

NeuM

@knewspeak said:

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

That’s how it’s worked for year’s in the PC environment.

And when you allow any third party software onto a PC, you accept the risks of doing so. Microsoft or Apple are not responsible at that point.

dobbs

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

That’s how it’s worked for year’s in the PC environment.

And when you allow any third party software onto a PC, you accept the risks of doing so. Microsoft or Apple are not responsible at that point.

ok sure but that's a whole different story to voiding your warranty... I also accept the risk of dropping my phone every time I pick it up but it doesn't void my warranty either because it is an accepted use case and so will be sideloading hot garbage, for anyone in the EU at least, you're not jailbreaking or anything...

NeuM

@dobbs said:

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@Carnbot said:
Also worth noting that EU DMA law is coming into effect now and Apple will have to allow alternative appstores and sideloading in Europe, but remains to be seen how it will effect the rest of the world.

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/01/dma-eu-law-could-force-major-changes-apple/

I wonder how Apple will respond.

Sure, they can allow sideloading, but that should invalidate the warranty on the device. They cannot be held legally liable for unvetted garbage loaded onto their platform.

That’s how it’s worked for year’s in the PC environment.

And when you allow any third party software onto a PC, you accept the risks of doing so. Microsoft or Apple are not responsible at that point.

ok sure but that's a whole different story to voiding your warranty... I also accept the risk of dropping my phone every time I pick it up but it doesn't void my warranty either because it is an accepted use case and so will be sideloading hot garbage, for anyone in the EU at least, you're not jailbreaking or anything...

I said it voids your warranty because the policy prior to this was if you side loaded anything it would void the warranty. I really don't know what is the official policy on this today. I suppose there is a copy of current terms and conditions on the Apple site somewhere.

dobbs

They still have until 2024 to apply the rulings, so I guess for the next months nothing will have changed...:/

There will be some other interesting changes too... They'll have to allow other browsers with their own browser engines and plugins, iMessage will have to be able to connect to other messengers, there will likely be alternatives to NFC apple pay,

Carnbot

Yeah, that'll be good too, which means better web app compatibility will be possible, which will make iPadOS much more useful in the long run.

Gavinski

@dobbs said:
They still have until 2024 to apply the rulings, so I guess for the next months nothing will have changed...:/

There will be some other interesting changes too... They'll have to allow other browsers with their own browser engines and plugins, iMessage will have to be able to connect to other messengers, there will likely be alternatives to NFC apple pay,

Regulations rock! 😛

Gavinski

While Affinity photo looks great, I heard it has a steep learning curve so it may be overkill for my purposes. When I search for thumbnail generation app list articles on Google though, the offerings mostly look very gimmicky. I know this could be a separate thread but if anyone has a suggestion for a quality thumbnail creation app with a fast and dirty workflow I’m all ears.