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256 buffer in AUM is almost 20ms latency on my iPad. Totally unplayable for me.
So I guess all the glitches I get come from my low latency settings. Damn me didn’t even think of that.
Makes total sense. Thanks for reminding me of the buffers thing.
Have you tried 256 and found the latency too much or did you look at the round-trip number — which I believe is the time for an incoming audio signal to be received and processed and received again at the output. That doesn’t apply to this use case. The output latency is the important number..at 256 that is 10 or under I believe on my phone.
I don't know. I'm barely using that thing.
In NS2 it says measured latency 5.3ms, and I can play it, but there are lots of glitches with the Jax piano.
the latency in any host with a buffer of 256 should be similar. at 512, it'll be about 10ms
well, I trust you on that (Jee I hate all those techno things)
All I can say is the latency in NS2 is I can manage and play with. I never touched that setting (says medium)
In AUM, I need to set the buffer to 128 to play something live. And I run into lot of issues.
I just re-visited the Yellow piano and got better results than in the recording. The difference seems related to something going on with saving and restoring presets.
I appreciate that my ham-handed example doesn't give anything like a complete picture, and I think it is also not unmeaningful/useful. I did try to work in some lower dynamics at the end of the examples...though it does not capture anything like the full range of possible dynamics.
The issue happens even when the sample rate does not change while the JAX pianos are loaded. I just tried the following: on my ipad 6 without an attached interface
the pitch is different. i can send you a link to a a video demo of it would help
Jason, you need to learn to take constructive criticism. You're doing yourself no favours in the way you react to messages like that from dspguy above - It's an extremely bad look for a dev. Go write a book on how to lose friends and alienate people.
Could you try reloading AUM and setting the sample rate to 48 immediately? I suspect that just clearing the AUM session may not be perfect where this value is concerned.
There may be something in your AUM audio or MIDI routing that's causing several full buffers of delay. With buffers of 256, the latency should be between 5 and 10 ms, depending on the amount of processing. Have you tried a minimal AUM setup, with just the JAX piano, and your keyboard controller MIDI routed to it?
The sample rate is being changed with no audio units loaded. It would be strange if this made a difference.
Just tried it by force quitting AUM after changing the sample rate and reloading everything from scratch. this time with an audio interace. the behavior is the same.
One thing I can say is that the sounds here are much more immediate and that was my major objection.
I am a bit confused, however. If, as the dev says, his piano can be tweaked to sound like any of @espiegel123 s pianos, then why can’t we buy just one and tweak it to sound like any piano we might compare it to?
I hope I have not violated the no negative comment zone established for this singular thread.
@LinearLineman : fwiw, I was. not a fan of the early previews of these apps, but it seems to me that Emporeor and the last Superior were quite good with some settings. If he opens up the betas again, I would be interested in your take…and would love it if Jens would create some presets that imitate the character of those other example pianos.
It would probably be a worthwhile investment to create such presets, since you know how to do it and it is not easy, imo, to tweak the apps to sound like all those examples.
There are excellent apps that fail to be appreciated (and get the word-of-mouth that leads to sales) due to lack of presets that show the apps to best advantage.
I guess that, at least at present, there are a lot of parameters that are not exposed in the GUI or the AUV. And also files like IRs and the like. So only the dev has the power to change them all. Making them all user-accessible could be a problem, since users might have difficulty finding acceptable sounds.
I had the impression that Jens was saying the user could tweak the apps to sound like any of the pianos in my example.
What he said was:
"However, the users may select with sound preferences. The point is, that JAX actually CAN sound like ANY of these samples. Because it has an inbuilt modelling engine. The others not."
That is, the JAX model can be adjusted to create different sounds. In fact, the different JAX apps probably are the same basic model, with different data and settings. But I don't believe the available user parameters have the scope to produce those different models.
Ah, that’s clearer.
jason : can you clarify whether you meant the user could adjust the pianos to sound like one’s in my examples or whether you meant you could create models that sound like them with behind-the-scenes tweaking?
I’d be well into something that wasn’t necessarily a piano, but with the kind of control mentioned above… physical modelling opens so many interesting doors beyond emulating real world stuff…
As far as I understand
To get exactly the same sound like other sampled-pianos, JAX Grand should have the same samples…. Which as we know is not possible…. So its only possible to create similar/close timbre sound patch in JAX Grand, but not exactly the same!
JAX grands offer you close/far, high pitched cut-thtue-the-mix/damped sound with each multiple onboard models. Each model can be tweaked like this.
In this huuuge range you can create also similar results like mentioned. Similar but not exactly the same as for sampling pianos the important factor is mic placement/equipment for example… which is unique for each session/producer..as I think.
stupid me, turns out a reboot fixed that...
Hi Jason , trying emporeor now that I have the time and attention to do it!
Lovely sound, it definitely have a layer of autenticity not found in common sample libraries.
The only thing that I´ve found, and is not a minor thing for me, is the extremely short decay times for the notes.
I´ve tried with decay and release setting at max but still really short.
I miss most of what I enjoy when playing the piano: the subtle movement, the melodies that apears as a mix of the resonances for the beating tails of the notes.
Comparing to my pianos, (both Upright and Grand pianos) notes maybe 3-4 times shorter, also the decay time for the resonances of the soundboard when pressing the sustain piano is shorter. tried Superior and have the same issue with note decays...
Would be fantastic if the note durations and decay times would be corrected, I love the sound of JAX pianos, but I can´t really use it for the music I make or play.
Also, would be great having the damper pedal noise, it really adds to the realism both when listening and also playing. I miss how the soundboard resonance "open" when you press the sustain pedal when you still have notes "held" and played without sustain, I think that behaviour is not modeled, right?
Thanks a lot for bringing great sounding pianos to iOS land!
can't wait for it!!!!!
Yes, I believe these short decay times are what I was hearing as well, but could not describe accurately . If this could be corrected I think I would enthusiastically try one of these pianos.
You should. I didn't like these pianos at first. Then I enjoyed the playability, now I'm starting enjoying the sound with my tweaks, and soon with the decay fixed, it might be my primary iOS piano.
Great to know!!! Let me know If I can help somehow.
Also, Now that you are at it, would be awesome if you could do what the real pianos have with the high notes and nver found a sample library to replicate: no dampers from C, D or E6 so when you play those high notes will sustain regardless of the sustain pedal
The short decay is what has kept me from purchasing as well. I love the percussive sound of the hammers, which is better than what I hear on samples pianos, but the decay is what has been bothering me.
@espiegel123 when do we get results? I preferred blue and pink the most overall.
I have been craving a “felt piano” and like the short decays. This goes to show that all options have their advocates and you’ll never make everyone happy. In this case, I’m hoping the 4 Models inside the app can be adjusted and leave one of them with this great percussive option if possible.
jason will make me a “Felt Piano” product based on some of the great demo’s on Desktops where this type of piano is the hot market since standard pianos are available from dozens of vendors.