Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Is Subscription Fair to Developers and Users alike?
Given all the drama with Waves recently, and some other developers, I ask myself: is subscription fair?
My thought is with the developers first. Can even big companies like Waves survive in the current economy without the tactics that they use? For most of us who work, the people we work for pay us typically on a biweekly basis for the services we provide them. How do developers, even big companies, make steady income?
Then I think about hobbyist like myself, we don’t necessarily need a subscription, because we are typically making money off of the music that we create. For myself, I could go several months without making anything so subscribing to something like Arcade, Native Instruments or Waves does it make logical sense for me.
To tie it all together, I do subscribe to many services, such as Amazon prime, Spotify, Disney+, and many more. The difference with those services is that by utilize them daily.
What are your thoughts on the current state of subscription versus one-time purchase?
Comments
On iOS you don’t really buy anything, in as much as you don’t own any apps you purchase.
If you take that into consideration, shouldn’t it ALL be subscription?
Not that I want that.
Hell no!
I’m not a fan of subscriptions for music apps, I don’t think that paying a weekly, monthly or yearly fee for a synth or effect is very fair, or, to be honest sustainable for the developer.
I have one music based subscription and that is Reason +, this is $20 a month but you get literally everything, including all new versions of Reason and its effect, instrument, utilities etc.
This works for me, plus I can cancel anytime things are getting tight, then rejoin and all my projects are restored.
So maybe subscribing to DAWs on iOS is not quite so bad, especially if new content like sounds and instruments etc are added at least monthly.
The problems start when devs abandon their product, if your not careful the subscription comes out anyway, your less likely to notice immediately if it’s just an instrument or effect, whereas you would definitely notice if your DAW subscription suddenly stopped getting updated.
Over the years when developers have asked my opinion on pricing I always tried to steer them away from subscription based models for iOS apps.
There are other ways they can still make extra money with IAPs, even good, regular updates and solid stable workflow will increase sales.
It depends. I will defend this stance to the death.
And even that is conditional.
This is a stance I agree with 100%. I find lots of use with Gadget and would subscribe to a Gadget 3. On the other hand I wouldn't subscribe to just an instrument or effect. But then again as you said John it all depends.
I don’t know if ‘fair’ is the correct word to be used in a comparison, but it’s certainly a model that benefits the seller more than the buyer.
I personally prefer the buy it once and upgrade as and when you want to model.
One of the things that adds to my irritation with the subscription model is how much it was the focus a few years back with regard to improving profits, with quite a bit of focus on how to sell the model as it does not create any tangible benefits for the buyer. I have a couple of friends who work in sales, and have had many discussions with them about the move to subscription models, and they both agree that it’s not designed to be beneficial to the buyer.
No! For the simple reason there are just too many. For me who am also into art (before music) it's a nightmare with all subs here and there.
I'm quite happy with my SonicPass experience with UVI. Around $20 / month for very high-quality VST and sound libraries. No hassle suspending it, which I've done twice.
Same with Melodics, a music learning platform I recommend. There are times I want to focus on learning, but not every month. They keep my account progress, make it easy to suspend and resume. And continue to develop their product.
I think if you buy an app, it should be maintained. However, if a developer brings out a big upgrade, they should charge for it. Like going from V1 to V2.
I avoid subscription like the plague.
The only subcription I´ve taken is UA Spark, the fact that they are adding plugins almost every month to the plan and not increasing the price makes it a really good deal.
Still, I think I will never bear the idea of having to pay forever and never really own the product.
I agree with "it depends". I'm way more likely to buy a subscription for an iOS DAW than an iOS plugin.
It really sucks that to keep things working in iOS can be such a hassle. There is a constant maintenance cost as iOS updates. For certain tools I'd rather then charge me regularly but that cost go to keep the tool up to date (and gaining new features).
I'm really curious how Michael is handling the Loopy pro "pay for updates" model. While that does seem like the ideal, it seems extremely complicated imo as a developer.
I think subscriptions for some things make sense. Netflix makes sense, Waves didn't. Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like plugin subscriptions kind of give the game away a bit for plugin makers.
The subscription kind of kills the GAS factor because you're not making a "purchase" of a new plugin. Now you're having to evaluate monthly whether you're using enough plugins to justify whatever the monthly/yearly cost is.
This could lead to musicians realizing that they have pretty much everything they need in their stock FX library that came with their DAW or can easily find one the high-quality free options elsewhere. This is probably not the same for professional studios who spend tons per year to have updated tech, but for individuals and amateurs especially this could happen.
People don't have a problem paying hundreds of dollars a month for cell phone, cable/satellite TV and Internet access, right? Or maybe they do, but they continue to pay for these things anyway because of the value they receive from them.
Personally, I try to minimize subscriptions for all things in my life. I suppose depending on how you look at them even things like loans for a house or car are a form of "subscription"..!
What about Loopy Pro? (i.e. WUP et. al.)
Not on iOS. On desktop though with the amount I can get for a subscription then I don’t mind. If subscriptions on iOS included bundles and rent to own then yeah but I can’t do several subs to single effects and instruments cos that would just add up like crazy
Great responses!
My thought is: what is a fair price that keeps developers “open for business” and keeps us updated with the latest and greatest versions? COVID-19 taught us that “big companies” can go out of business. I just wonder with the skyrocketing cost of living and ultra competitive market, how this affects a company like Waves?
Reality is, Waves is definitely not even close to being “too big to fail”. God forbid they ever had to close, I can’t see Waves tech ever dying, I would imagine one of the bigger music gear/software companies acquiring their IP, but what about the talent? The talent is the most valuable asset and in companies like Waves you find many Ph.Ds and in-demand intellectuals. The market is competitive for talent just as much as products and services. What is their cost?
At this point I don’t benefit from music software subscriptions, at least not monthly. At the same time, for those who making a living creating music, subscriptions seem more up their alley. I can see how studios benefit from a monthly charge that keeps them on the latest and greatest versions as well as the newest software/plugins. I feel Waves goofed, assuming hobbyist, which probably make up the majority of their buyers, would be excited for the low entry point per month to have access to everything. Us hobbyists, spend more than we make, if any, on the music we make and we don’t need the whole collection. 🤷🏽
@Ailerom Loopy PRO is not a subscription based model.
However, I did say that I can get onboard with iOS DAWs being subscription based if they update regularly and often substantial benefit to the user.
Loopy PRO runs in a different model, once you have purchased any version of Loopy PRO you own it forever, it’s entirely up to you if you want to pay an upgrade price for the latest version, but if you choose not to that’s also cool, the version of Loopy PRO you already own will continue to be yours and function perfectly 👍😊
I really liked the Loopy Pro model when Michael ended up with it. But it's worth noting that it hasn't been tested in practice yet. I'm curious how the first paid upgrade cycle will go down. I hope all will be fine and it proves to be a good pricing model on ios, but as of now it remains to be seen.
I didn't say it was. I compared it to WUP which shares some features of the subscription model.
@Ailerom Sorry, you’ll need to educate me, what is WUP?
How would anyone really know if a company is charging a "fair" price? The only thing most individuals can do is decide with their wallet. The amount, and how you are willing to pay it.
Basically, the model Loopy Pro and Beatsurfer 2 are using.
Digital art and design has definitely been impacted, particularly for people trying to use older versions of Adobe software.
@Ailerom Ah, right I understand you now, yes, I think that is a good model, it gives the developers a good way to make extra money without forcing people to pay more if they don’t want to.
I’d be interested to hear what you think.
But what does the acronym stand for?
@NeuM That’s what I was wondering too
Only found this so far: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wup