Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
I agree and while I can’t speak for the comment your replying to, I think the sentiment is more like “goodbye because not many people are willing to pile up on subscriptions” rather than “goodbye I hate you” lol so to speak
It's not really about fair pricing. Of course you can't compare apple's pricing with a one man shop. But it also wouldn't be fair to users of everything went sub, and the end result would be fewer apps and fewer users. It's actually fair to the dev that people voice their objections before launch so he has time to reconsider. Regardless, people will make up their own minds. My prediction is simply that unless subs are extremely cheap, most people will not be buying. A dev who wants to focus on one app is wiser to pursue a model like Nikokozi with Mela, Michael with Loopy Pro, the Wotja guys, etc...this is fairer and more sustainable for all concerned. Again though, people will also have a limited tolerance for working copy model. Your synth or whatever has to really do something special if you expect people to pay for an upgrade every year. If only a few do it, it might work OK, if everyone piles on to that model, it will not be.
Hopefully this is not final and we'll see the actual prices when the app is released. But it suggests there is a subscription option.
Personally I would only consider this if there is the option to buy the app (no subscription) for a price similar to version one (£15-20)
Pure speculation here, but maybe the subscription is for the automatic suggestion of chords which might be using some paid services like open ai APIs
"Of course you can't compare apple's pricing with a one man shop."
And yet I was responding to a comment that seemed to be setting Logic's sub as the yardstick by which others should/will be measured.
This worry about fewer apps and users is a valid one, of course. However, I'm not sure that should be the responsibility of the developers who choose to go the sub route. Given how loud the public outcry is over subscriptions, I'm inclined to believe that most developers understand the gamble, but have decided that it's the only way to possibly sustain themselves. And in many cases, said developers (including this one) will have years of sales figures available to them, which perhaps demonstrate that the old model wasn't working for them, either.
As for the Mela/LoopyPro/Wotja model? I think it's a great option; or at least it should be. I'd be interested to hear a solid argument against it.
I'm not opposed to discussion about subscriptions, even if the majority of it is against the model. People have a right to express their preferences. I'd just prefer less drama and doom, in favour of a more nuanced discussion...because despite what comments might lead you to believe, this is definitely a nuanced topic.
While I've no doubt that all users want all developers to thrive, and that they should absolutely be compensated for the work they do on updates, extra features etc, that this will always be at odds with a natural tendency to want to pay as little as possible, for as much as possible...the least amount of occasions as possible. We want our cake and we ant to be able to eat it, also. But something has to give, and (again) given the (almost mob-like/political) hatred of all things sub, I'm inclined to believe that the result is going to be many more apps and developers disappearing over the coming years. That's just how this works.
Ultimately, the market will decide how this all pans out.
The Netflix model works because you pay one price for hundreds of TV shows and movies. Imagine if every one of those TV shows and movies you watched had its own separate monthly subscription (lol, not so far from the case with all the entertainment subscription services that have popped up over the past 2 or 3 years, eh? Suddenly people are having to pick and choose again).
Here's an idea: an iOS 'music pass'. Subscription to many apps for one nice monthly fee. An Apple Arcade for music apps if you like! It will never happen, which is kinda a shame.
Subscriptions have made their way into productivity software because these programs are used every single day. Stuff like Office 365, Google Drive, etc. Things like Adobe for professional artists. Doing something like setting your EQ app to $4 a month, though, when people have hundreds of other music apps is suicide. Apple can get away with it because Logic is so comprehensive - you could literally 'just' use Logic for all your music production and be fine. I wonder how their move will affect Auxy, actually, whose subscription now looks even more ridiculous (I guess some people really love their sample packs!).
The point is simply that if you produce something that is essential and used all the time, or if your thing has a veritable bucketload of content, you can get away with a subscription. Everything else can't, which is why the Loopy Pro model works so well in giving Michael an annual income boost that doesn't negatively impact on customers who decide not to re-up after a year or two. The app still works, everyone's happy... and it gives Michael even more incentive to introduce compelling enough updates to make people want to re-up!
There must be a way to compensate developers fairly while keeping customers happy. Not every app can be a Loopy Pro either! And if the iOS market moves to everything costing £19.99, that's going to affect the number of AUv3s on everyone's devices. Difficult to take a chance on something at that price, whereas at £7.99 you might bite. All this is very nuanced, and I'm not sure there is an ideal price point or model that suits every particular type of app. I think Michael has nailed it. Apple has probably nailed it for Logic. But for a lesser known developer who has developed a 'one function' type of app? I don't think there's a price or model that can satisfy both the dev and customer sides of that relationship yet.
That's why I jokingly suggested the Apple Arcade for music apps thing. That would work for 'one function' apps, right? Essentially the idea is that you would get a banquet of boutique FX for a monthly fee, and I presume the metrics will be available in terms of downloads etc to pay out a portion of the subs money to developers each month. But this is the kind of data that wouldn't be available centrally to anyone but Apple, so they would have to do it. And they won't!
Or maybe we just have to accept that music production is too niche to create a full time career for most developers on the iOS platform. Which is a shame. How are things on Mac/PC? Is it more sustainable there?
Unfortunately, the unnatural way in which the iOS music market has worked thus far has created this completely unnatural result of a lot of users having tons of apps with a lot of redundancies. Had things been different from the start, and either prices were as high as they should've been and/or subscriptions were available, then very few people would ever get to the position where they'd have to question just how are they going to subscribe to 500 apps per-year.
Depends what you mean by happy customers. The 'Working copy' model is probably the fairest option, for all involved. But again it will involve most people having to reign in their collections to a much smaller set of favourite tools...which I think you'll find is at odds with happiness
I don't disagree with this, I actually think subscriptions are a good thing in many respects, but at the same time subscriptions are a pricing model which suit particular types of apps, mostly those which have regular updates, and provide potentially bigger capabilities and subset therein. I'm just not sure how far Suggester could go with this model. I absolutely understand that developers need to get an income from their applications (as a non iOS developer myself I really do get that) and know the amount of work goes into development. I would rather pay a larger up front cost and then pay for major upgrades than pay monthly fees for the rental use of an app. Other developers use slightly different pricing models - prime example being Michael and Loopy pro. Maybe that would be a better option. There is space in the market for different pricing models, but if everyone starts to go subscription, then people will only pay for the bigger more useful apps/services with lots of features... (not saying Suggester isn't potentially one of them - that remains to be seen) Even small 2.99 / 4.99 monthly subs start to mount up and the subs market is only getting bigger and bigger... I just have to look at how many different payments come off my account monthly for different services. :-)
I've mentioned this in the past and I think the iOS music world has been a victim of it's own success and people are so used to paying small amounts for some pretty impressive pieces of software that the mindset on this will take some time to change. Many developers have moved to desktop for this reason and perhaps as you say Apple does make a loss on this and will recoup the costs via it's hardware sales. How do iOS developers compete with this? Not sure if I'm honest... maybe desktop route, maybe subscription... Guess time will tell.
Scaler imo is much deeper than Suggester. There is a great community, the devs are constantly updating and interacting, great tutorials and the ability to run one instance of scaler to be the leader and load several more to follow are a few examples why Scaler is heads up Suggester.
That's definitely one type of app that a subscription would work for. Other apps that would qualify are those that are unique, in that they either do something no other developer can easily replicate, or that a particular developer does 'hands down' better than the rest.
I'm also of the opinion that aside from a small handful of the most vehement of sub-dodgers, most purchasing decisions will still be informed by cost/value. We've already seen many posts this last week that start with a similar caveat as "Normally I'm totally opposed to subscriptions, but Logic Pro is just...". People talk a good boycott, but it can be really difficult to stick to one's position in the face of a really good deal. This is not to disparage or gloat. it's just the reality.
Me neither. If I had to speculate, perhaps the fact that they gave away such a fully-featured 'free' app and that meant that they didn't sell enough 'Unlock' IAP to make it sustainable. But who knows?
Either way, it has yet to be confirmed whether this is a definite option, and/or if it'd be presented as the only option.
But rental needn't be an ongoing thing. There are many apps that don't need to be fully owned, just to sit in some long-forgotten folder, nine desktop pages deep. So why not rent an app for a month, if/when one feels called to it?
As for larger up-front costs? Great! It also has to happen. But I'm not sure everyone agrees that ongoing update payments should be a separate cost; at least, not from many comments I've read on the matter.
The Loopy Pro model is a great idea. However, there's still a lot of opposition to it. And it's not possible for it to work in all cases.
As for, "but if everyone starts to go subscription"? It's not gonna happen. Developers, including yourself, are also normal people too
Each has their own preference for the products they buy, and are likely to at least try to reflect those preferences in their own products. Just as there're differences in how each developer protects themselves (or not) against piracy, based on their own experiences, bias, ethics, politics etc., so will there be some developers who are just as anti-subscription as many of the consumer who would buy their apps. Don't worry...there will still be choices.
This idea of "victim of it's own success" seems to be true. It has been a gold rush, of sorts. But it's not sustainable. Unfortunately I get the sense that rather than people appreciating being around for the ride, and acknowledging the need for a huge shake-up, that many (Fortunately, not all) will just dig their heels-in and rally against any/all options of finding a more sustainable model, whether subscription, the Mela/Loopy Pro model or higher and more sustainable prices for purchase and updates. In the meantime we're likely to lose more apps and more developers
Losing apps and developers would also happen if there are more subs and working copy models. This was also mentioned earlier in the thread. Either way, the days of people being able to buy everything that comes out is over, or at least nearing an end. As most people are only using a fraction of what they have anyway, it's not really a huge problem I think. Low levels of competition are great for giving people a chance to get a foot in the door. They might start off not that great but they get a chance to grow and develop. But the downside is that there's a fair amount of dross. High levels of competition are good for making the more skilled people float to the top of the pile, but the downside is that there will likely be fewer indie devs and things get more corporate.
The good thing about higher prices meaning people can buy less is that they are forced to actually really learn what they have.
It's a complex topic!
Indeed it is.
So, now it’s out, what do we think of the new features?
Can't download it yet; it says it's not available in my country (UK).
Is the subscription confirmed / there an option to buy it outright? Thanks
I'm also curious about what can be done with the free version and to find out what's new so hopefully I'll be able to download it soon 🤞
iOS Key Upgrade AU$22.99 (save 23%)
macOS Key Upgrade AU$49.99 (save 17%)
Universal Key Upgrade AU$59.99 (save 33%)
Monthly Subscription AU$9.99 (save yourself!!!!!!!!!!!)
That's it. Not sure if there are non upgrade purchases available. I have v1 and all I see is the upgrade prices and a monthly sub.
🤣🤣🤣
Nice, thanks for the info!
So is this a new app or a paid for upgrade of the original app that’s been updated ?
I did the preorder but it never downloaded and now the app isn’t showing in the App Store at all. Is this typical? I almost never preorder apps, and when I do they usually download automatically.
Can someone post an App Store link? Not showing in my store, but sometimes clicking a link will show it
Launch delayed, it seems. Clicking that link is not opening anything for me either
Was curious about this, thanks! Must’ve been a show-stopping bug or something. Or they read the thread here 😅
What is a "key upgrade"?
Sub for one month, use it to write the framework of 30+ pieces of music. Cancel sub
Or just use Scaler if you already have that? Or Progressions or whatever. Sorry, this subscription price is sheer folly regardless of the feature set.
Paying a subscription to have a suggestion when you can use scaler that does so much more for a one time fee. This seems like the biggest no brainer.
To each their own 🤷🏽♂️
Let's wait and see what the final price options are before we shoot the developer...
Trying to avoid using any of these apps (And no...there's nothing wrong with using them). But if I did, I'd much prefer Suggester.
The sub is definitely pitched too high, for an ongoing payment. But if I did find it to be an important part of my workflow, I'd perhaps take it for one or two months per-year.
+1 ...will wait for the final release. Seems it was released in Australia, but some last minute changes are still a possibility
To me it's between Suggester 2 and Tonaly (not tonality), but I have a 64gb iPad and there is no way I'd use 1.2GB of storage just for Scaler / any chord progressions app 😜