VAPoly 16 by Ryo Togawa (Released)

Stuntman_mike

@Luxthor said:

@Stuntman_mike said:
My guess it’s based on the CS-80:

VAPoly 16 vs. CS-80
Voices: two 8 voice vs. two 8 voice
Oscillators per Voice: 2 vs. 2

And I found this:
“ The Yamaha CS (including CS80) actually used a variant of a Diode Ring Sallen-Key filter. Korg also used a variant of a Diode Ring Sallen-Key filter. They used transistors wired as diodes, afaict.

One big difference between these two implementations was that Yamaha implemented a limiter on the lower cutoff frequencies as well as a limiter on the resonance (Q) that prevented the filter from self oscillating. The Q was also further reduced on the very high frequencies.

This suggests that you could perhaps achieve some CS like timbres with the MS-20 filter (rev.1) if you are moderate with your levels and Q/Res amount).”

Basic comparison 😂

Royo mentioned Sallen-Key for a reason. Trying to tell us it’s more aggressive (old school) than the OTA filter from the first VAPoly.

I would really like that your guess is true.

And who wouldn’t want the CS-80 sound?! 🤩 Was good enough for; Vangelis (Blade Runner), Chicago, Jethro Tull, Kraftwerk, Ultravox, Bon Jovi, Simple Minds, Paul McCartney, Michael McDonald, Brian Eno, Toto (Africa), Eddie Jobson, Doug Johnson (Loverboy), The Crystal Method, Jean Michel Jarre, Geoffrey Downes (Yes, Asia), Rick Wakeman, Stevie Wonder, Phish, Daft Punk, BBC Radiophonic Workshop, and Tony Banks of Genesis.

🙌🏽 could be just coincidence with 8x2 voices, perhaps a mix of configurations because usually Ryo seems to hint at a specific synth during a specific era in the description. It’s fun speculating.

Stuntman_mike

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Oh wow, the plot thickens… could be just a homage to vintage synths but not an emulation per se.

Stuntman_mike

@gregsmith said:
I hope this Ryo chap stumbles upon a Prophet filter emulation at some point

That would be awesome! Curtis filter, right?

Slush

Maybe he made a replica of the Sallen-Key and build a synth around it, no intention to emulate this or that synth.
But I have send Ryo an email to solve the mystery, asking him if VaPoly16 is based on any specific vintage synth.
If I have any news, you will know it.

dendy

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

Gavinski

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

Thanks Dendy - always good to hear from someone who knows their hardware well. So what synths do you think it sounds like, if any? Cheers!

auxmux

@Stuntman_mike said:

@gregsmith said:
I hope this Ryo chap stumbles upon a Prophet filter emulation at some point

That would be awesome! Curtis filter, right?

There are a few. Early prophet and latest prophet 5 use SSM filter, which is my favorite filter.

Curtis filter was used in synths like Prophet 08 and also classics like Matrix 6R. Matrix 6r sounds great too.

But these synths are more inspired by the classics than true emulations, unlike synths by Arturia, u-he etc. Because the architecture does not match the originals.

The approach here is confusing. These all follow the same fixed architecture but only the filters are different. Why not just have one synth/app with multiple filter options? While the prices are low right now, having very similar apps is confusing. I also own VA mono and VApoly, so not sold on buying another variation.

dendy

@Gavinski said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

Thanks Dendy - always good to hear from someone who knows their hardware well. So what synths do you think it sounds like, if any? Cheers!

Dunno.. sounds just like .. VAPoly16 :-D I guess dev intention wasn't to make some faithful clone of any existing synth ..
Doesn't remember me too much any particular other synth.

Filter is nice though, especially on high resonance it adds nice subtle overdrive and fast LFO modulation sounds good .. so .. maybe i should adjust from "nothing special" to "its good, not excellent but definitely good") :-D

Gavinski

@dendy said:

@Gavinski said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

Thanks Dendy - always good to hear from someone who knows their hardware well. So what synths do you think it sounds like, if any? Cheers!

Dunno.. sounds just like .. VAPoly16 :-D I guess dev intention wasn't to make some faithful clone of any existing synth ..
Doesn't remember me too much any particular other synth.

Filter is nice though, especially on high resonance it adds nice subtle overdrive and fast LFO modulation sounds good .. so .. maybe i should adjust from "nothing special" to "its good, not excellent but definitely good") :-D

Haha - ok. Yeah, bringing out a mono version, a poly version, then this, if the only real difference apart from polyphony is filters, does seem like a strange approach.

Luxthor

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

dendy

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

i have friend who is old synth collector, he has literally full house of synths, visiting him is like visiting synth museum 🤣 At some point i think he had even two of them :-))

NeuM

@dendy said:

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

i have friend who is old synth collector, he has literally full house of synths, visiting him is like visiting synth museum 🤣 At some point i think he had even two of them :-))

I have a similar friend (even has an original Fairlight CMI).

Grandbear

@NeuM said:

@dendy said:

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

i have friend who is old synth collector, he has literally full house of synths, visiting him is like visiting synth museum 🤣 At some point i think he had even two of them :-))

I have a similar friend (even has an original Fairlight CMI).

This is the monthly reminder for kicking myself for never going to the Vintage Synthesizer Museum while it was located in nearby Oakland 🤦‍♂️

NeuM

@Grandbear said:

@NeuM said:

@dendy said:

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

i have friend who is old synth collector, he has literally full house of synths, visiting him is like visiting synth museum 🤣 At some point i think he had even two of them :-))

I have a similar friend (even has an original Fairlight CMI).

This is the monthly reminder for kicking myself for never going to the Vintage Synthesizer Museum while it was located in nearby Oakland 🤦‍♂️

Oakland might not be the safest city to go to these days, but I’ll always try to check out someone’s synth, guitar or recording equipment collection.

espiegel123

@auxmux said:

……

Curtis filter was used in synths like Prophet 08 and also classics like Matrix 6R. Matrix 6r sounds great too.

……

Fwiw, I have a Mattix 6R and find that many iOS synths sound better. It was a super convenient and pretty good sounding (but not great-sounding) synth in its day…earlier Oberheims were better sounding.

auxmux

@espiegel123 said:

@auxmux said:

……

Curtis filter was used in synths like Prophet 08 and also classics like Matrix 6R. Matrix 6r sounds great too.

……

Fwiw, I have a Mattix 6R and find that many iOS synths sound better. It was a super convenient and pretty good sounding (but not great-sounding) synth in its day…earlier Oberheims were better sounding.

Same, I have one also. Yeah, it depends on the sounds. The classic nasal sounds of oberheims can't be beat tho.

Luxthor

@dendy said:

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

i have friend who is old synth collector, he has literally full house of synths, visiting him is like visiting synth museum 🤣 At some point i think he had even two of them :-))

Sometimes it’s good that you live far away from me. 😅 What my friends have is closer to the graveyard than a museum of old synths, haha.

Stuntman_mike

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

Yup, I inadvertently bait clicked cross referencing the specs in Google hoping for a miracle 😂

dendy

@Stuntman_mike said:

@Luxthor said:

@dendy said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
These filters sound nothing like a CS-80. What they do sound very much like is my old Juno 6. More Roland than Yamaha.

Whole synth sounds nothing like CS80, no idea from where this discussion about CS80 similarities came :-) With all respect to this synth (doesn't sound bad, but if you ask me, also nothing special), warm analog sound of CS80 is like completely different universe :-D

@Stuntman_mike started the fire, nothing wrong with little excitement, also no one stated anything, was just hope. But, how did you get your fingers on the CS-80, you lucky bastard?! 😂

Yup, I inadvertently bait clicked cross referencing the specs in Google hoping for a miracle 😂

Slush

Here the answer from Ryo!

VAPoly16 is inspired by many vintage analog synthesizers but it is not molding of a particular synthesizer. Design of oscillator section is inspired by Prophet 5 and OB 8. It uses band limited oscillators, not circuit modeled oscillators. Resonant High pass filter and low pass filter in VCF section are inspired by MS20 filters but it is designed for polyphonic synthesizer by making resonant less aggressive. Design of Bitimbral is inspired by CS80 and other bitimbral analog synthesizers of 70's and 80's.

I hope this will solve the mystery.

Best Regards,

Ryo Togawa

Luxthor

@Slush said:
Here the answer from Ryo!

VAPoly16 is inspired by many vintage analog synthesizers but it is not molding of a particular synthesizer. Design of oscillator section is inspired by Prophet 5 and OB 8. It uses band limited oscillators, not circuit modeled oscillators. Resonant High pass filter and low pass filter in VCF section are inspired by MS20 filters but it is designed for polyphonic synthesizer by making resonant less aggressive. Design of Bitimbral is inspired by CS80 and other bitimbral analog synthesizers of 70's and 80's.

I hope this will solve the mystery.

Best Regards,

Ryo Togawa

What?! No more detective work, assumptions, or guessing. Boring! 😂

Anyway, thank you Ryo for the clarifications. @Slush you are the king! 👍

Gavinski

@Slush said:
Here the answer from Ryo!

VAPoly16 is inspired by many vintage analog synthesizers but it is not molding of a particular synthesizer. Design of oscillator section is inspired by Prophet 5 and OB 8. It uses band limited oscillators, not circuit modeled oscillators. Resonant High pass filter and low pass filter in VCF section are inspired by MS20 filters but it is designed for polyphonic synthesizer by making resonant less aggressive. Design of Bitimbral is inspired by CS80 and other bitimbral analog synthesizers of 70's and 80's.

I hope this will solve the mystery.

Best Regards,

Ryo Togawa

Nice one, both of you!

frosttrance_7

Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

NeuM

@frosttrance_7 said:
Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

Are you serious? Just buy it. If it does not live up to expectations, get a refund.

Fingolfinzz

@frosttrance_7 said:
Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

Sure! If you buy it for me first

rs2000

@Slush said:
Here the answer from Ryo!

VAPoly16 is inspired by many vintage analog synthesizers but it is not molding of a particular synthesizer. Design of oscillator section is inspired by Prophet 5 and OB 8. It uses band limited oscillators, not circuit modeled oscillators. Resonant High pass filter and low pass filter in VCF section are inspired by MS20 filters but it is designed for polyphonic synthesizer by making resonant less aggressive. Design of Bitimbral is inspired by CS80 and other bitimbral analog synthesizers of 70's and 80's.

I hope this will solve the mystery.

Best Regards,

Ryo Togawa

Thanks!
Modified MS-20 filters seem to fit the different impressions on its sound here quite well.

Luxthor

@frosttrance_7 said:
Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

Here is the VAPoly16 LPF sweep.

Gavinski

@NeuM said:

@frosttrance_7 said:
Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

Are you serious? Just buy it. If it does not live up to expectations, get a refund.

Depending on your location, there is no automatic refund option in some territories, and many people have had the experience that Apple often turned down valid refund requests with zero explanation given and no right of appeal if they reject your initial appeal.

Stuntman_mike

Awesome! It’s like a turtle on the inside 😂

NeuM

@Gavinski said:

@NeuM said:

@frosttrance_7 said:
Can someone provide WAV files of the filter sweeps on different waveforms from VAPoly and VAPoly16 so I can decide before buying?

Are you serious? Just buy it. If it does not live up to expectations, get a refund.

Depending on your location, there is no automatic refund option in some territories, and many people have had the experience that Apple often turned down valid refund requests with zero explanation given and no right of appeal if they reject your initial appeal.

I’ve only had one refund request rejected by Apple. They’ve gotten much better at it. Telling Apple an app did not perform as expected (which is the only reason I'd seek a refund anyway) usually works for me.