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The New Beatles’ Song

13

Comments

  • @ecou said:

    @audioruss said:

    @joegrant413 said:
    The tune is OK. The fact it was a Lennon demo after the Beatles breakup leaves me doubt John would have wanted this to even have been released at all. And the internet is also buzzing that George didn't like it. Let's just say an awful lot of presumptions and technology and money wants this to be a legit Beatles song. It isn't.

    I like the video much better. If this was a song in a Beatles retrospective show and introduced as a John memorial cooked up by the production crew, fine. But this wasn't the Fab Four bouncing threads of musical ideas off each other and eventually -- collaboratively in real-time -- coming up something better as a team rather than an solo songwriter.

    Long-time Beatles fan here saying, "meh".

    Same here. If this wasn't The Beatles, I'd pay it little attention.

    The magic of the Beatles was that they were trailblazers several decades ago.

    Using AI to separate John vocal is trailblazing to me. It could start a trend of posthumous lost recording coming from many artists.

    I don’t know if that’s a good thing. There are way too many posthumous recordings out there already that the artists made decisions not to release during their lifetime.

  • That's the thing that gnaws on me. Sure, the long-lost manuscript of Beethoven are great to have, and long-lost recordings of Buddy Holly trying out a new musical idea can be fascinating and of historical value.

    But that's different than something intended to be published or performed.

    Artists deliberately hold back stuff that's not ready. They want only the ideas that are ready to go to the public and bear their name as part of their released work.

    Not clear to me at all John would want this as part of the Beatles published body of work.

  • Yeah, he didn't believe in Beatles.

    I think we can guess that neither Ringo or Paul are in need of money or fame. I think Now and Then is a song to honor the memory of John and George and to finally put the Beatles to rest. I think it was done with a good spirit as a nice goodbye. They all disappear at the video's end.

  • @michael_m said:

    @ecou said:
    Peter Jackson is the reason why I decided to watch the documentary. Watching it changed my view of the Beatles but not of Yoko.

    Why did it not change your view of Yoko?

    At one time I didn’t appreciate her musical output, but it was Walking on Thin Ice and her tracks on Double Fantasy that changed that - I came to appreciate how she could walk the line between avant garde and more conventional music. It’s doubtful she would have got a record deal without being John’s wife, but she has definitely produced music that I like.

    Unfortunately she has been maligned over the years as a negative influence on John, but when you consider the incredible output he produced when they were together I don’t think that’s true musically.

    Yeah I think Yoko had some good music back in the day. Not nearly as horrible as so many people make it out to be. IMO, of course.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, as they say, but I agree with the "meh" camp. The Lennon demo is cryptic and enticing, and there's real longing that runs through it. He manages to put uncertainty into a trite phrase like "now and then."

    The final product is sleek and corporate and it feels like what you'd get from some of the most proficient engineers and programmers in the field making a very accurate facsimile of a Beatles song. But I'm not exaggerating when I say the entire Rutles catalog has more Beatles soul than anything Jeff Lynne has ever been involved in.

    And as for Yoko:

    What’s wrong with Jeff Lynne? I think ELO is absolutely fantastic.

  • Gotta echo the “meh” train. It’s not horrible. A bit cheesy and soulless at times but could be a lot worse. It’s being marketed as “the Beatles last song” but it doesn’t really feel much like a Beatles song in that sense.

  • edited November 2023

    Anyone heard the new red "The Beatles 1962 – 1966 (2023 Edition)" and blue "The Beatles 1967 – 1970 (2023 Edition)" CDs yet?

    1962-66 is mostly 2023 "mixes" using the new mixing technology they used on "Now and Then". There are less 2023 mixes on the blue set.

    The clarity of these 2023 mixes is amazing.

    I can see them using this tech on the first 4 Beatles albums that were mono to create quality stereo versions.

  • @Simon said:
    Anyone heard the new red "The Beatles 1962 – 1966 (2023 Edition)" and blue "The Beatles 1967 – 1970 (2023 Edition)" CDs yet?

    1962-66 is mostly 2023 "mixes" using the new mixing technology they used on "Now and Then". There are less 2023 mixes on the blue set.

    The clarity of these 2023 mixes is amazing.

    I can see them using this tech on the first 4 Beatles albums that were mono to create quality stereo versions.

    I haven’t yet but I intend to soon. They’re available on Apple Music so I have the Red Album cued up next.

    Not sure it matters that the mixes aren’t 2023 on the Blue Album as most of the later albums had already been remixed by Giles Martin anyway.

    Definitely looking forward to playing these, especially as the original Red Album consisted of those horrible fake stereo versions.

  • Well I gave the Red Album a spin, and I’m impressed!

    First of all I have got to say I’m glad that the original mix has been respected, and there’s no correction of dynamics or pitch - those early songs are still ‘warts and all.’

    Now I’m not sure if it’s me listening to songs I know really well with fresh ears, or if there is a better level of overall clarity than before, but to me the songs really do sound improved, and that’s in a less than ideal listening environment (in my car).

    ‘Love Me Do’ sounds a little less muddy perhaps, but what really surprised me is how much I noticed how Paul’s lower solo vocal is flat and drifting off key. I know I had noticed before, but noticing it to a greater extent made me think there could be good and bad to this.

    Similarly with ‘Twist and Shout’, a lot has been made of how badly shredded John’s vocal cords were when he recorded this, but I was surprised to notice that the backing vocals aren’t as good as I remember them, and Paul’s bass playing in uncharacteristically out of time in places.

    There are some great improvements overall, and acoustic guitar parts seem clearer, and it’s a little easier to hear bass parts, and notice just how much reverb was used on some parts.

  • Had to go to the store so listened to a few more songs from the Red Album.

    I had to keep going back to the start of Hard Day’s Night to listen to that opening chord as it now has a lot more clarity than it used to.

  • @Simon said:
    Anyone heard the new red "The Beatles 1962 – 1966 (2023 Edition)" and blue "The Beatles 1967 – 1970 (2023 Edition)" CDs yet?

    1962-66 is mostly 2023 "mixes" using the new mixing technology they used on "Now and Then". There are less 2023 mixes on the blue set.

    The clarity of these 2023 mixes is amazing.

    I can see them using this tech on the first 4 Beatles albums that were mono to create quality stereo versions.

    The mono versions of their work sound so much better than any of the stereo mixes…and almost everything on streaming services are remastered versions made to be more palatable to contemporary listeners.

    The original mono mixes were painstakingly done and the band were involved…because mono is what most people bought…stereo was still in the fad stage…the White album (main mix still mono) was the first one where the band were involved in the stereo mix.

    The balance of the voices and the overall presence so much better on the mono mixes..because they had the full attention of the participants…who had a great sense of what sounded great.

    I find the modernized mixes less strong than the originals.

  • Forgot those came out today. Gonna listen over the weekend as well.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    I find the modernized mixes less strong than the originals.

    Have you listened to these new mixes released this week?

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Simon said:
    Anyone heard the new red "The Beatles 1962 – 1966 (2023 Edition)" and blue "The Beatles 1967 – 1970 (2023 Edition)" CDs yet?

    1962-66 is mostly 2023 "mixes" using the new mixing technology they used on "Now and Then". There are less 2023 mixes on the blue set.

    The clarity of these 2023 mixes is amazing.

    I can see them using this tech on the first 4 Beatles albums that were mono to create quality stereo versions.

    The mono versions of their work sound so much better than any of the stereo mixes…and almost everything on streaming services are remastered versions made to be more palatable to contemporary listeners.

    The original mono mixes were painstakingly done and the band were involved…because mono is what most people bought…stereo was still in the fad stage…the White album (main mix still mono) was the first one where the band were involved in the stereo mix.

    The balance of the voices and the overall presence so much better on the mono mixes..because they had the full attention of the participants…who had a great sense of what sounded great.

    I find the modernized mixes less strong than the originals.

    The mono versions were miles ahead of the stereo versions, and a revelation for me when I first heard some of them - I didn’t realize until then how much the process of making them stereo had screwed them up.

    As I said, the new versions are probably a two-edged sword, as they add clarity to certain things, but don’t necessarily have a beneficial effect on others. Overall though I think Giles Martin’s mixes are respectful to the originals for the most part.

  • @HotStrange said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, as they say, but I agree with the "meh" camp. The Lennon demo is cryptic and enticing, and there's real longing that runs through it. He manages to put uncertainty into a trite phrase like "now and then."

    The final product is sleek and corporate and it feels like what you'd get from some of the most proficient engineers and programmers in the field making a very accurate facsimile of a Beatles song. But I'm not exaggerating when I say the entire Rutles catalog has more Beatles soul than anything Jeff Lynne has ever been involved in.

    And as for Yoko:

    What’s wrong with Jeff Lynne? I think ELO is absolutely fantastic.

    Agreed.

    Out of the Blue is one of those desert island albums that I can listen to over and over. It's like comfort food for me.

  • @bluegroove said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, as they say, but I agree with the "meh" camp. The Lennon demo is cryptic and enticing, and there's real longing that runs through it. He manages to put uncertainty into a trite phrase like "now and then."

    The final product is sleek and corporate and it feels like what you'd get from some of the most proficient engineers and programmers in the field making a very accurate facsimile of a Beatles song. But I'm not exaggerating when I say the entire Rutles catalog has more Beatles soul than anything Jeff Lynne has ever been involved in.

    And as for Yoko:

    What’s wrong with Jeff Lynne? I think ELO is absolutely fantastic.

    Agreed.

    Out of the Blue is one of those desert island albums that I can listen to over and over. It's like comfort food for me.

    Agreed. I really like A New World Record and Face the Music as well.

  • . > @HotStrange said:

    @bluegroove said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, as they say, but I agree with the "meh" camp. The Lennon demo is cryptic and enticing, and there's real longing that runs through it. He manages to put uncertainty into a trite phrase like "now and then."

    The final product is sleek and corporate and it feels like what you'd get from some of the most proficient engineers and programmers in the field making a very accurate facsimile of a Beatles song. But I'm not exaggerating when I say the entire Rutles catalog has more Beatles soul than anything Jeff Lynne has ever been involved in.

    And as for Yoko:

    What’s wrong with Jeff Lynne? I think ELO is absolutely fantastic.

    Agreed.

    Out of the Blue is one of those desert island albums that I can listen to over and over. It's like comfort food for me.

    Agreed. I really like A New World Record and Face the Music as well.

    Definitely, ELO did some absolutely corker tracks imo.

  • Something special happens to any music that you listen to a hundred of time. It re-wires your brain and elevates it.
    I doubt this additional Beatles song will get that treatment by me.

    Some acts get this treatment from Elvis to Taylor Swift (in my lifetime). I picked these two because I pretty much avoided their
    music for pretty superficial reasons on my part. I eventually realized I underestimated Elvis. I don’t think I’ll live long enough for the later to disclose her special qualities.

  • @Gavinski said:
    Definitely, ELO did some absolutely corker tracks imo.

    Even if you don't like their music (which I do) their tracks are fascinating for the production work. Some great ear candy.

  • @abf said:
    Yeah, he didn't believe in Beatles.

    I think we can guess that neither Ringo or Paul are in need of money or fame. I think Now and Then is a song to honor the memory of John and George and to finally put the Beatles to rest. I think it was done with a good spirit as a nice goodbye. They all disappear at the video's end.

    I think @abf is spot on. It’s fun bring critical, natch, but, for me, it was a bit of a resurrection of a time long gone. I loved seeing them somehow together again. Get old get corny.

  • @LinearLineman said:

    @abf said:
    Yeah, he didn't believe in Beatles.

    I think we can guess that neither Ringo or Paul are in need of money or fame. I think Now and Then is a song to honor the memory of John and George and to finally put the Beatles to rest. I think it was done with a good spirit as a nice goodbye. They all disappear at the video's end.

    I think @abf is spot on. It’s fun bring critical, natch, but, for me, it was a bit of a resurrection of a time long gone. I loved seeing them somehow together again. Get old get corny.

    Mccartney too. If you listen to McCartney or Martin interview, they say McCartney just wanted to have one last jam with his buddy.

    I have no problem with it.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    I finally listened to it. meh. It's not that it's bad. It isn't. It just isn't memorable in any way. If it wasn't a (sort-of) Beatles song I wouldn't have given it more than about 30 seconds of listening.

    I honestly don't believe that the four of them together would ever have released this, at least not in any form resembling this release. I don't think the song would have made the cut of songs that they would have put time in to develop further. But moreso I believe it would have ended up a very, very different thing.

    I have the feeling that John and George would think this is rubbish. It isn't. But I think they would feel that way.

    Nothing wrong with putting it out as a John / Ringo thing for whatever reasons they chose to do it. It's fine for an interesting bit of tribute and entertainment, but it doesn't rate becoming part of the Beatles legacy in my mind.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    Someone's point about resurrecting people's unfinished work posthumously struck a chord with me. Separating the wheat from the chaff is just as much a part of artistry as any other. Sure, maybe some artists just run out of time, and would have loved to be able to finish more of their unfinished projects. But I bet it's rare. I bet they put them aside for a reason. That would be true for me at least.

    I'd be royally upset if someone found all the stuff I've done that I don't think is worthy of anyone hearing and did me the "honor" of making it all public. I'd be embarrassed. I'd feel violated. I'd come back and haunt them if I could.

  • @wim said:
    Someone's point about resurrecting people's unfinished work posthumously struck a chord with me. Separating the wheat from the chaff is just as much a part of artistry as any other. Sure, maybe some artists just run out of time, and would have loved to be able to finish more of their unfinished projects. But I bet it's rare. I bet they put them aside for a reason. That would be true for me at least.

    I'd be royally upset if someone found all the stuff I've done that I don't think is worthy of anyone hearing and did me the "honor" of making it all public. I'd be embarrassed. I'd feel violated. I'd come back and haunt them if I could.

    Agree. I think releasing his posthumous songs as Beatles violates his will unfortunately. I do love Beatles but John didnt look like he would have wanted Beatles reunite, so if someone felt the song should be heard they could have it released as Johns demo.

  • @vlaad3 said:

    @wim said:
    Someone's point about resurrecting people's unfinished work posthumously struck a chord with me. Separating the wheat from the chaff is just as much a part of artistry as any other. Sure, maybe some artists just run out of time, and would have loved to be able to finish more of their unfinished projects. But I bet it's rare. I bet they put them aside for a reason. That would be true for me at least.

    I'd be royally upset if someone found all the stuff I've done that I don't think is worthy of anyone hearing and did me the "honor" of making it all public. I'd be embarrassed. I'd feel violated. I'd come back and haunt them if I could.

    Agree. I think releasing his posthumous songs as Beatles violates his will unfortunately. I do love Beatles but John didnt look like he would have wanted Beatles reunite, so if someone felt the song should be heard they could have it released as Johns demo.

    Yeah, I don't care enough tbh to have strong feelings about it, but I think Wim is right. Isn't there that story that Lennon wanted McCartney to have the demo tape? Still....that doesn't remotely mean he wanted this turned into a song after his death. He might just have wanted him to hear it. He had no idea he was going to be killed, so I think it could be a mistake to assume that wanting Paul to have this meant he was giving his blessing to some posthumous song being made with his vocal.

  • @Gavinski said:
    . > @HotStrange said:

    @bluegroove said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @ExAsperis99 said:
    I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, as they say, but I agree with the "meh" camp. The Lennon demo is cryptic and enticing, and there's real longing that runs through it. He manages to put uncertainty into a trite phrase like "now and then."

    The final product is sleek and corporate and it feels like what you'd get from some of the most proficient engineers and programmers in the field making a very accurate facsimile of a Beatles song. But I'm not exaggerating when I say the entire Rutles catalog has more Beatles soul than anything Jeff Lynne has ever been involved in.

    And as for Yoko:

    What’s wrong with Jeff Lynne? I think ELO is absolutely fantastic.

    Agreed.

    Out of the Blue is one of those desert island albums that I can listen to over and over. It's like comfort food for me.

    Agreed. I really like A New World Record and Face the Music as well.

    Definitely, ELO did some absolutely corker tracks imo.

    For sure. Livin Thing is so good and a killer ending track for Boogie Nights too. Supertramp is kind of in a similar vein and also freaking great.

  • @wim said:
    I finally listened to it. meh. It's not that it's bad. It isn't. It just isn't memorable in any way. If it wasn't a (sort-of) Beatles song I wouldn't have given it more than about 30 seconds of listening.

    I honestly don't believe that the four of them together would ever have released this, at least not in any form resembling this release. I don't think the song would have made the cut of songs that they would have put time in to develop further. But moreso I believe it would have ended up a very, very different thing.

    Listen to the early albums in particular and it’s clear that not everything they put out was While My Guitar Gently Weeps level. This would absolutely have met the quality bar.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    Listen to the early albums in particular and it’s clear that not everything they put out was While My Guitar Gently Weeps level. This would absolutely have met the quality bar.

    Not only the early stuff. You know my name (look up the number).

  • edited November 2023

    The Beatles are my favourite band ever by miles, and I love most of john’s solo stuff. I hate now and then, lol. I think it’s a pretty boring uninspired song, not badly written but not very good

    His original version has a cool chorus bit but the rest I think is plodding. It’s probably the worst song I’ve heard associated with the Beatles - not a fan of old brown shoe (i mean come on) and the long and winding road makes me want to kill myself also.

    I don’t like the key change bridge. I think it sounds contrived, and like he’s going through teh motions, i don’t think it sounds disjointed at all but then I listened to so much of his and the Beatles stuff and those kinds of key changes

    This to me is half written. I can hear the sketchiness of it.

    I’ve edited this as I was a bit harsh, his original chorus is sweet, and the melody is unusual in ascending. I think the new version is appalling and johns original had potential and a couple of moments but the verse is dirge to me…

    I agree with George’s assertion that it’s ‘a bit rubbish’ . But I do think the chorus could be really nice I can hear the beginnings of it . I need to listen again but felt like the fourth line should go up even more into something

    Free as a bird and real love particularly are two of my favorite songs, both really original and beautifully composed.

    On anither note: backlash against the Beatles. Right. From which songwriting geniuses is this? Lol. I mean.. in terms of musical composition, no one comes close for me imagination wise, while also conjuring up hooks you never dreamt of. For me that’s not what I always want to do, but it is the rarest and most valuable thing. It’s a piece of piss to write something weird or something catchy or that works. It’s a thing of magic to effortlessly do both

    Maybe they’re not ‘diverse’ enough -_-

    People don’t even catch the time signature changes in songs like we can work it out, or notice the beauty of the chord sequence in early stuff like the verses to she loves you. Because it’s effortless

  • edited November 2023

    @michael_m said:

    @Vip8888 said:
    There is also this comparison by David Bennett which I found quite interesting, worth a watch.

    He’s right about the tempo and how it was cut up. It would definitely have been a more melancholic song if it remained closer to the demo.

    I don’t like the song but Paul definitely trashes it with his bull in the China shop of johns delicate delivery. He doesn’t get the tone or even the melody right. I think it’s the difference between feeling something and performing which is why I can’t listen to all these anguish faced melodramatic performances in modern music and talent shows that everyone seems to lap up

    What was that Verve lyric: you get your feelings from a vending machine

    Some thing like that

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