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[ Meow | Audio Editor ] Public Beta

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Comments

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @wim said:
    This is already a few too many posts on such a minor topic. I'll just leave it at that.

    No, it's a valid point, I wasn't too happy with 'Guess' either. Your turn. Stop complaining. Start doing! 😂 Come up with some wording... I'll go back into my corner in the meantime!

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:
    Honestly it would be enough to make a selection and tell the app its x number of beats and it would calculate the bpm.

    If nothing is selected and the file is very long the BPM might get a bit whacked and the "/2" and "*2" BPM could be used to get in the right ballpark, visually adjusting BPM is quite often enough to make the grid-lines match the content.

    :D OK, this "BPM from selection" thing seems to be by far the most controversial topic so far on the thread with the largest number of different opinions. I'll make a call and design it all myself :D

  • wimwim

    @SevenSystems said:
    I kinda get that. Suggestions? It has to fit. "From Selection"? Any combination of text in the input field (currently 'Beats in Selection') and the label of the 'Guess' button that conveys the same amount of information (and better) that the current situation does is welcome! :)

    Only an emoji can express the subtleties of this critical UI element. After careful consideration, my suggestion is:

    🧐

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:
    @SevenSystems Just a quick question...

    Is there any particular logic to the 'artistic way' the waveform is drawn?

    Yes. It's not really "artistic" :) The dark-grey part shows the envelope of the wave, i.e. the amplitude or "physical loudness" at that point (which is independent of polarity). When zoomed further out, all that gets drawn is the envelope (in a brighter grey). When drawing switches to individual samples, the envelope is still drawn (darker), and in addition, the individual sample levels are drawn as lines.

    Gotcha! In that case the 'line per sample' could be made a bit 'thicker' in the future updates just in case you ever plan to add per-sample manipulation, like 'drawing' for manually correcting clicks? (or maybe even a 'smooth selection' which could reduce the extreme deviation from the rest of the values in the selection?).

    But no biggie, just something to get used to :)

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @wim said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    I kinda get that. Suggestions? It has to fit. "From Selection"? Any combination of text in the input field (currently 'Beats in Selection') and the label of the 'Guess' button that conveys the same amount of information (and better) that the current situation does is welcome! :)

    Only an emoji can express the subtleties of this critical UI element. After careful consideration, my suggestion is:

    🧐

    I vote for:

    😡

    😉

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems said:

    :D OK, this "BPM from selection" thing seems to be by far the most controversial topic so far on the thread with the largest number of different opinions. I'll make a call and design it all myself :D

    +1 You do know what we're all after, a simple way to set the BPM for the file so one can be somewhat accurately select portions of the file based on beat division even though the grid-lines will never match 100% if the file uses groove or shuffle which is why I don't trust automated tools for chopping...(even transient based choppers can 'get it wrong' at times when looking at the individual slices).

    WIth the zero-snap already in place it's quite quick to make the selection anyway...

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:
    @SevenSystems Just a quick question...

    Is there any particular logic to the 'artistic way' the waveform is drawn?

    Yes. It's not really "artistic" :) The dark-grey part shows the envelope of the wave, i.e. the amplitude or "physical loudness" at that point (which is independent of polarity). When zoomed further out, all that gets drawn is the envelope (in a brighter grey). When drawing switches to individual samples, the envelope is still drawn (darker), and in addition, the individual sample levels are drawn as lines.

    Gotcha! In that case the 'line per sample' could be made a bit 'thicker'

    That might be a good idea!

    just in case you ever plan to add per-sample manipulation, like 'drawing' for manually correcting clicks? (or maybe even a 'smooth selection' which could reduce the extreme deviation from the rest of the values in the selection?).

    For removing clicks, just select the click and a few samples before and after, set a very short Auto Crossfade in the 'Process' menu (crossfade length will be clamped to half the selection length anyway), and then use 'Silence' or 'Filter' -> 'Lowpass'! :)

    (but drawing samples would be nice to have for drawing wavetable material anyway...)

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    Comments?

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    One more thing: The last feature, apart from automatic session save and restore, that I still consider adding is manual entry of selection start / end / length.

    I envision being able to tap (not drag) the selection handles ( [ / ] ), and a dropdown appears there, with two input fields: 'Selection Start' or 'Selection End' depending on which handle you tapped, and 'Length' (leaves the handle position unchanged but changes the selection length "towards the other handle".

    Before I do this, I need some feedback:

    • would it be enough to be able to enter this in samples, or would seconds / milliseconds also be needed? (I think bars / beats would be overkill as this can already be snapped easily in the editor)
    • what would be some concrete use cases in real life where this would be used?

    Thanks!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @SevenSystems said:
    One more thing: The last feature, apart from automatic session save and restore, that I still consider adding is manual entry of selection start / end / length.

    I envision being able to tap (not drag) the selection handles ( [ / ] ), and a dropdown appears there, with two input fields: 'Selection Start' or 'Selection End' depending on which handle you tapped, and 'Length' (leaves the handle position unchanged but changes the selection length "towards the other handle".

    Before I do this, I need some feedback:

    • would it be enough to be able to enter this in samples, or would seconds / milliseconds also be needed? (I think bars / beats would be overkill as this can already be snapped easily in the editor)
    • what would be some concrete use cases in real life where this would be used?

    Thanks!

    Imo, seconds:milliseconds would be needed as an option in addition to samples.

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems said:

    Before I do this, I need some feedback:

    • would it be enough to be able to enter this in samples, or would seconds / milliseconds also be needed? (I think bars / beats would be overkill as this can already be snapped easily in the editor)

    For me personally 'samples' is enough (I'd still love to see a ruler showing samples too getting more granular as I zoom in).

    When editing samples it would be nice to se the selection start, end and length in samples.
    (These values could be visible at all times and manually edited?).

    • what would be some concrete use cases in real life where this would be used?

    Don't know maybe to go the beginning of the next 'frame' when drawing samples?
    (ie. first frame start at 0 and ends at 2047, next frame would start at 2048 and end at 4095 etc. etc.).

    For this it might even be better to be able to 'move the selection' instead of having to move selection start and end handles separately?

    I think a 'status bar/field' with sample name, file length/size/sample-rate, playhead location, selection start/end & length would be nice.

    For me it's pretty distracting/annoying when the playhead has information on it flying around the screen...
    ...in these cases I really do prefer a status bar/field with that information present...

    Time to rest the eyes again...
    Cheers!

  • wimwim
    edited February 22

    @SevenSystems said:

    Comments?

    You spelled Caluclate wrong.
    Other than that it looks perfect! 😎

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    Before I do this, I need some feedback:

    • would it be enough to be able to enter this in samples, or would seconds / milliseconds also be needed? (I think bars / beats would be overkill as this can already be snapped easily in the editor)

    For me personally 'samples' is enough (I'd still love to see a ruler showing samples too getting more granular as I zoom in).

    Yes, I have this on the roadmap, but it might be until v1.1!

    When editing samples it would be nice to se the selection start, end and length in samples.
    (These values could be visible at all times and manually edited?).

    I think having them visible at all times would be overkill (remember... it's also for phones...), but they'd be always just a single tap away.

    For this it might even be better to be able to 'move the selection' instead of having to move selection start and end handles separately?

    Yes, moving the selection would be nice, I'll add this to the roadmap for v1.1. I think 'Press + Hold' anywhere in the selected waveform area could work for this, it's currently unused. It's not easily discoverable, but then again, this is not 'core functionality'...

    I think a 'status bar/field' with sample name, file length/size/sample-rate, playhead location, selection start/end & length would be nice.

    This is something that could be considered for v1.1 ... I'm reasonably happy with the UI/UX right now, and it also has to work on very small screens, so I'm very hesitant to waste space... but for iPad, definitely will look into this.

    For me it's pretty distracting/annoying when the playhead has information on it flying around the screen...

    Yes I agree it's not optimal. Moving the position display (and tempo menu button) to a fixed position on the left edge of the ruler would probably be better (like in Xequence). But for v1.1 ... 😬

    Thanks!

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @wim said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    Comments?

    You spelled Caluclate wrong.
    Other than that it looks perfect! 😎

    You also spelt it wrong! It's CLUCALATE!!!111

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems I think I’ve bumped into a bug…

    If you play a sound and while it loops you tap ‘new’ you get a new empty document but the sound keeps on playing/looping in the background!? (Is this preparation for ‘tabs’ where multiple sounds can be played at one or a bug?).

    Also the ‘auto layout’ doesn’t work properly when using accessibility zooms (as an example using 135% in portrait mode on the 11” iPadPro the play and stop buttons are not visible!?).

    Also the frequency & gain bars in some of the filters are shown in some settings even with gain at 0 and the frequency bar is not filled in any except the new EQ. Not a biggie but a bit inconsistent, that’s all.

    Cheers!

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:
    @SevenSystems I think I’ve bumped into a bug…

    If you play a sound and while it loops you tap ‘new’ you get a new empty document but the sound keeps on playing/looping in the background!? (Is this preparation for ‘tabs’ where multiple sounds can be played at one or a bug?).

    Hey, thanks -- that's a bug.

    Also the ‘auto layout’ doesn’t work properly when using accessibility zooms (as an example using 135% in portrait mode on the 11” iPadPro the play and stop buttons are not visible!?).

    Oh, thanks for catching that. I was sure I was accounting for the UI scaling in the layout logic so I didn't even test it. Apparently not. Investigating!

    Also the frequency & gain bars in some of the filters are shown in some settings even with gain at 0 and the frequency bar is not filled in any except the new EQ. Not a biggie but a bit inconsistent, that’s all.

    Could you make a screenshot? Not entirely sure if I get this.

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems said:

    Also the frequency & gain bars in some of the filters are shown in some settings even with gain at 0 and the frequency bar is not filled in any except the new EQ. Not a biggie but a bit inconsistent, that’s all.

    Could you make a screenshot? Not entirely sure if I get this.

    In this example the Q bar is 'filled' with the value at 0db (shouldn't it be empty if it's 0db since it can go both positive and negative directions to indicate the change?).

    The frequency bar is at 200Hz but is not 'filled'.
    This is purely 'visual' as they work as expected.

    Maybe I'm just 'SunVox Damaged' where all bar/sliders are 'filled' to some degree if their value is not 'empty/0' so feel free to ignore...

    For 1.1 the Graphic EQ could have 'level meters' baked in for each of the bands assisting in cutting to boosting the freqeuncies.

    Cheers!

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    Also the frequency & gain bars in some of the filters are shown in some settings even with gain at 0 and the frequency bar is not filled in any except the new EQ. Not a biggie but a bit inconsistent, that’s all.

    Could you make a screenshot? Not entirely sure if I get this.

    In this example the Q bar is 'filled' with the value at 0db (shouldn't it be empty if it's 0db since it can go both positive and negative directions to indicate the change?).

    The frequency bar is at 200Hz but is not 'filled'.
    This is purely 'visual' as they work as expected.

    You're a great observer! :)

    The general concept with sliders is:

    • if they have a "natural" default value which can "deviate" in both directions, show a filled bar as soon as the value deviates from the default
    • if they control something that is objectively "more" or "bigger" in some way when the value is bigger, then they also show a filled bar
    • if what they control doesn't have a "natural" value (like Frequency), don't show a filled bar at all

    You're right that for 'Q' it isn't optimal right now:

    • For Lowpass and Highpass, 'Q' really is 'Resonance'. I will rename this. Regarding a 'natural value', I'm not sure -- at 0 dB, there is no resonance (response doesn't go "above unity" at the cutoff). At -12 dB, there's still no resonance of course, but the response of the filter is just "even flatter". I think I cannot spend too much time thinking about this, as the app is not specialized on filters 😄
    • For the Peaking EQ, there really is no "natural" value for Q. The bigger it is, the narrower the filter... so I think it's OK here with the filled bar.

    Maybe I'm just 'SunVox Damaged' where all bar/sliders are 'filled' to some degree if their value is not 'empty/0' so feel free to ignore...

    As you can see, I spend a lot of time on UI/UX and how to represent values in the most logical way, and I'm glad others are as observant as I am, so your input is great! Although I think SunVox's sliders are actually less "meaningful" in how they convey their values.

    For 1.1 the Graphic EQ could have 'level meters' baked in for each of the bands assisting in cutting to boosting the freqeuncies.

    Good idea!

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    New Beta sent to Apple and available shortly. This will be the last "feature" update -- the only things left now is session restore and help integration.

    Thanks!

    NEW:

    • Selection Start, End and Length can now be entered precisely, both in seconds and samples, by pressing (not dragging) the selection handles.

    IMPROVEMENTS:

    • Improved the wording and layout of the 'Calculate BPM' feature.
    • Renamed 'Q' to 'Resonance' for the Lowpass and Highpass filter types.
    • Minor layout & UI tweaks.

    FIXES:

    • Stop running playback when starting a new project.
    • Fix automatic button re-layout in toolbars not responding to Accessibility Text Size.
  • SamuSamu
    edited February 23

    @SevenSystems said:
    New Beta sent to Apple and available shortly. This will be the last "feature" update -- the only things left now is session restore and help integration.

    Can we make this optional?
    I kinda like to start with a 'clean slate' when I launch the app instead potentially being 'restored' to the last file I had open...

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    New Beta sent to Apple and available shortly. This will be the last "feature" update -- the only things left now is session restore and help integration.

    Can we make this optional?
    I kinda like to start with a 'clean slate' when I launch the app instead potentially being 'restored' to the last file I had open...

    There'll be a "Restore last session?" dialog :)

  • SamuSamu

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    New Beta sent to Apple and available shortly. This will be the last "feature" update -- the only things left now is session restore and help integration.

    Can we make this optional?
    I kinda like to start with a 'clean slate' when I launch the app instead potentially being 'restored' to the last file I had open...

    There'll be a "Restore last session?" dialog :)

    Will it also 'remember' the name of the opened file when it's time to save it again?
    (Or at least offer a way to rename the file on save to change it to something other than Meow export.wav?)

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @SevenSystems : is there a way when zoomed in to scroll the view to the selection start or selection end? I find that a pretty essential function when refining selection start and points for looped audio. Maybe it’s there and I am overlooking it?

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @espiegel123 said:
    @SevenSystems : is there a way when zoomed in to scroll the view to the selection start or selection end? I find that a pretty essential function when refining selection start and points for looped audio. Maybe it’s there and I am overlooking it?

    Yes:

    • in the top toolbar "View" -> "[" or "]"
    • in the bottom toolbar, the "[" and "]" buttons to either side of the 'Zoom Sel' button (if there's enough horizontal space, otherwise these buttons are removed)
    • via the keyboard: [ and ]
  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @SevenSystems said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @SevenSystems : is there a way when zoomed in to scroll the view to the selection start or selection end? I find that a pretty essential function when refining selection start and points for looped audio. Maybe it’s there and I am overlooking it?

    Yes:

    • in the top toolbar "View" -> "[" or "]"
    • in the bottom toolbar, the "[" and "]" buttons to either side of the 'Zoom Sel' button (if there's enough horizontal space, otherwise these buttons are removed)
    • via the keyboard: [ and ]

    Ah the view popup. Tx. I overlooked that.

    I guess my phone is too small for the bottom toolbar glyphs.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @espiegel123 said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @SevenSystems : is there a way when zoomed in to scroll the view to the selection start or selection end? I find that a pretty essential function when refining selection start and points for looped audio. Maybe it’s there and I am overlooking it?

    Yes:

    • in the top toolbar "View" -> "[" or "]"
    • in the bottom toolbar, the "[" and "]" buttons to either side of the 'Zoom Sel' button (if there's enough horizontal space, otherwise these buttons are removed)
    • via the keyboard: [ and ]

    Ah the view popup. Tx. I overlooked that.

    I guess my phone is too small for the bottom toolbar glyphs.

    Yes, the bottom toolbar is kind of a "Quick Access" toolbox and it drops "less important" buttons as the available screen space shrinks.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    The view thing works well.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @espiegel123 said:
    The view thing works well.

    Brilliant! Of course I'm open to discussions if the prioritization of the bottom toolbar buttons can be optimized. Currently, the available actions are, from smallest to largest screen / window:

    • Snap || AutoZoom || Undo | Redo || Loop | Stop | Play
    • Snap || View Sel | AutoZoom | Select Played || Undo | Redo || Loop | Stop | Play
    • Snap || View All | View Sel | AutoZoom | Select All | Select Played || Undo | Redo || Loop | Stop | Play
    • Snap || View All | [ | View Sel | ] | AutoZoom | Select All | Select Played || Undo | Redo || Loop | Stop | Play
  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    New Beta sent to Apple and available shortly. This will be the last "feature" update -- the only things left now is session restore and help integration.

    Can we make this optional?
    I kinda like to start with a 'clean slate' when I launch the app instead potentially being 'restored' to the last file I had open...

    There'll be a "Restore last session?" dialog :)

    Will it also 'remember' the name of the opened file when it's time to save it again?
    (Or at least offer a way to rename the file on save to change it to something other than Meow export.wav?)

    It should already, can you outline steps when this isn't working? The project name (also used as export filename) is currently set automatically for:

    • Open In
    • "Open"
    • Drag & Drop -> "New Project"

    The only times when Meow should fall back to "Meow Export" is when you start a new project manually with the "New" button. Maybe there needs to be an option to set a project name manually too. 🤔

  • SamuSamu
    edited February 24

    @SevenSystems said:
    The only times when Meow should fall back to "Meow Export" is when you start a new project manually with the "New" button. Maybe there needs to be an option to set a project name manually too. 🤔

    Being able to set/change the name for the exported file would indeed be handy, the default name could be as is, but think for example cases when you create a variation of an existing file that was used as the source for the edits.

    Never mind, already saw that you can rename when saving to files…
    It’s the name for the ‘sharing’ over airdrop etc that is still called Meow Export.wav for new files as there’s no way to change the project name when airdropping.

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