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U.S sues Apple for monopolizing.

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Comments

  • KrupaKrupa

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @NeuM said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:
    I know I may sound like an Apple shill but the $0,99 iCloud+ plan with private relay (Apples VPN), hide my email functionality, 50gb iCloud storage etc. is really a nobrainer for Apple users.

    Not available in China lol.

    Bummer yeah. I guess they don't want to risk retaliation by the Chinese government being that dependent on them for the manufacturing, and I'm not sure how their shareholders would react in such a case. Typical VPN providers don't have that much to lose.

    I seriously doubt it was Apple's choice. They're required to follow the laws and regulations of every country in which they operate.

    I guess it's anticipatory obedience (vorrauseileneder Gehorsam in German) because VPNs are not illegal in China, it's necessary for foreign businesses.

    Not sure how that works if you bring your own device into China and are already an Apple Relay user, if they just deactivate it or if the unavailability only applies to Chinese citizens and devices aquired within China.

    iCloud in China mainland is operated by GCBD (AIPO Cloud (Guizhou) Technology Co. Ltd). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations
    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/111754

    As I mentioned, basically nothing is possible without Chinese government approval for foreign businesses there.

    Yes, and that is fair enough in my opinion, as a general principle, whether or not I personally like the Chinese regime. Do you think that every country should just accept whatever aligns with the American government's values and preferences? I don't.

    The problem with authoritarianism and dictatorships on a global trade level is comparable to playing and competing against cheaters. The more the cheaters succeed the more likely others will start to cheat as well in order to keep up.

    Super apps and the control it would enable if those become a monopoly is basically such a cheatcode.

    True, though the US doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to playing fair on the international stage, lol. American policy is far more about preserving its own dominance than about objective assessment of rights and wrongs. To take one example, the US is very quick to point out Chinese human rights abuses while turning a blind eye to human rights in allied counties like Saudi Arabia. Double standards much?!

    This is not to say we should have a race to the bottom, but it is important to point out in a discussion like this, and the US's own behaviour has contributed to other countries feeling that they don't need to follow the rules.

    We made a great (multi award winning) film about this twenty odd years ago, telling the story of the humble American peanut and how U.S. trade policy has hurt farmers of many different nut products around the world all in the name of protecting their own massive farms. Fun fact, peanuts aren’t even nuts, they’re legumes (beans) 😂

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited March 25

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @NeuM said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:
    I know I may sound like an Apple shill but the $0,99 iCloud+ plan with private relay (Apples VPN), hide my email functionality, 50gb iCloud storage etc. is really a nobrainer for Apple users.

    Not available in China lol.

    Bummer yeah. I guess they don't want to risk retaliation by the Chinese government being that dependent on them for the manufacturing, and I'm not sure how their shareholders would react in such a case. Typical VPN providers don't have that much to lose.

    I seriously doubt it was Apple's choice. They're required to follow the laws and regulations of every country in which they operate.

    I guess it's anticipatory obedience (vorrauseileneder Gehorsam in German) because VPNs are not illegal in China, it's necessary for foreign businesses.

    Not sure how that works if you bring your own device into China and are already an Apple Relay user, if they just deactivate it or if the unavailability only applies to Chinese citizens and devices aquired within China.

    iCloud in China mainland is operated by GCBD (AIPO Cloud (Guizhou) Technology Co. Ltd). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations
    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/111754

    As I mentioned, basically nothing is possible without Chinese government approval for foreign businesses there.

    Yes, and that is fair enough in my opinion, as a general principle, whether or not I personally like the Chinese regime. Do you think that every country should just accept whatever aligns with the American government's values and preferences? I don't.

    The problem with authoritarianism and dictatorships on a global trade level is comparable to playing and competing against cheaters. The more the cheaters succeed the more likely others will start to cheat as well in order to keep up.

    Super apps and the control it would enable if those become a monopoly is basically such a cheatcode.

    True, though the US doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to playing fair on the international stage, lol. American policy is far more about preserving its own dominance than about objective assessment of rights and wrongs. To take one example, the US is very quick to point out Chinese human rights abuses while turning a blind eye to human rights in allied counties like Saudi Arabia. Double standards much?!

    This is not to say we should have a race to the bottom, but it is important to point out in a discussion like this, and the US's own behaviour has contributed to other countries feeling that they don't need to follow the rules.

    You're right about the US having an inconsistent record of criticism and more recently, an inconsistent record on global interventionism and military support for often opaque reasons. On the other hand, the US doesn't speak with one voice because it's not a dictatorship or an authoritarian system (although in some respects it is closer now to one than ever before in modern US history). Criticism AND support of other governments/countries comes from a position of people in government competing for political advantage. That's why the messaging is inconsistent. The government of my country is in a constant state of destruction and renewal due to the competing interests involved. And in my book, that is preferable to the alternative, which is tyranny.

  • kirmesteggnokirmesteggno

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @NeuM said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:
    I know I may sound like an Apple shill but the $0,99 iCloud+ plan with private relay (Apples VPN), hide my email functionality, 50gb iCloud storage etc. is really a nobrainer for Apple users.

    Not available in China lol.

    Bummer yeah. I guess they don't want to risk retaliation by the Chinese government being that dependent on them for the manufacturing, and I'm not sure how their shareholders would react in such a case. Typical VPN providers don't have that much to lose.

    I seriously doubt it was Apple's choice. They're required to follow the laws and regulations of every country in which they operate.

    I guess it's anticipatory obedience (vorrauseileneder Gehorsam in German) because VPNs are not illegal in China, it's necessary for foreign businesses.

    Not sure how that works if you bring your own device into China and are already an Apple Relay user, if they just deactivate it or if the unavailability only applies to Chinese citizens and devices aquired within China.

    iCloud in China mainland is operated by GCBD (AIPO Cloud (Guizhou) Technology Co. Ltd). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations
    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/111754

    As I mentioned, basically nothing is possible without Chinese government approval for foreign businesses there.

    Yes, and that is fair enough in my opinion, as a general principle, whether or not I personally like the Chinese regime. Do you think that every country should just accept whatever aligns with the American government's values and preferences? I don't.

    The problem with authoritarianism and dictatorships on a global trade level is comparable to playing and competing against cheaters. The more the cheaters succeed the more likely others will start to cheat as well in order to keep up.

    Super apps and the control it would enable if those become a monopoly is basically such a cheatcode.

    True, though the US doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to playing fair on the international stage, lol. American policy is far more about preserving its own dominance than about objective assessment of rights and wrongs. To take one example, the US is very quick to point out Chinese human rights abuses while turning a blind eye to human rights in allied counties like Saudi Arabia. Double standards much?!

    This is not to say we should have a race to the bottom, but it is important to point out in a discussion like this, and the US's own behaviour has contributed to other countries feeling that they don't need to follow the rules.

    When it comes to oil they're not joking around, another good recent example is demaning Ukraine to stop striking Russian refineries to keep the oil price from going up and rippling through the US economy.

    But in the middle east it's also 4d chess against Iran and its vasal states (China is part of that Iran, Russia axis). I think the US still has some material from 9/11 under wraps which they could surface any time to justify stepping into Saudi Arabia, they just chose to benefit from them instead and make them an ally in that region.

    Imo the Russia/Iran/China axis is much worse, the less power they gain the better.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @NeuM said:

    @kirmesteggno said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @kirmesteggno said:
    I know I may sound like an Apple shill but the $0,99 iCloud+ plan with private relay (Apples VPN), hide my email functionality, 50gb iCloud storage etc. is really a nobrainer for Apple users.

    Not available in China lol.

    Bummer yeah. I guess they don't want to risk retaliation by the Chinese government being that dependent on them for the manufacturing, and I'm not sure how their shareholders would react in such a case. Typical VPN providers don't have that much to lose.

    I seriously doubt it was Apple's choice. They're required to follow the laws and regulations of every country in which they operate.

    I guess it's anticipatory obedience (vorrauseileneder Gehorsam in German) because VPNs are not illegal in China, it's necessary for foreign businesses.

    Not sure how that works if you bring your own device into China and are already an Apple Relay user, if they just deactivate it or if the unavailability only applies to Chinese citizens and devices aquired within China.

    iCloud in China mainland is operated by GCBD (AIPO Cloud (Guizhou) Technology Co. Ltd). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations
    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/111754

    As I mentioned, basically nothing is possible without Chinese government approval for foreign businesses there.

    Yes, and that is fair enough in my opinion, as a general principle, whether or not I personally like the Chinese regime. Do you think that every country should just accept whatever aligns with the American government's values and preferences? I don't.

    The problem with authoritarianism and dictatorships on a global trade level is comparable to playing and competing against cheaters. The more the cheaters succeed the more likely others will start to cheat as well in order to keep up.

    Super apps and the control it would enable if those become a monopoly is basically such a cheatcode.

    True, though the US doesn't exactly have a great track record when it comes to playing fair on the international stage, lol. American policy is far more about preserving its own dominance than about objective assessment of rights and wrongs. To take one example, the US is very quick to point out Chinese human rights abuses while turning a blind eye to human rights in allied counties like Saudi Arabia. Double standards much?!

    This is not to say we should have a race to the bottom, but it is important to point out in a discussion like this, and the US's own behaviour has contributed to other countries feeling that they don't need to follow the rules.

    When it comes to oil they're not joking around, another good recent example is demaning Ukraine to stop striking Russian refineries to keep the oil price from going up and rippling through the US economy.

    But in the middle east it's also 4d chess against Iran and its vasal states (China is part of that Iran, Russia axis). I think the US still has some material from 9/11 under wraps which they could surface any time to justify stepping into Saudi Arabia, they just chose to benefit from them instead and make them an ally in that region.

    Imo the Russia/Iran/China axis is much worse, the less power they gain the better.

    Believe me, we already know the role Saudi Arabia played. Politics rules over all other considerations.

  • kirmesteggnokirmesteggno

    @NeuM said:

    You're right about the US having an inconsistent record of criticism and more recently, an inconsistent record on global interventionism and military support for often opaque reasons. On the other hand, the US doesn't speak with one voice because it's not a dictatorship or an authoritarian system (although in some respects it is closer now to one than ever before in modern US history). Criticism AND support of other governments/countries comes from a position of people in government competing for political advantage. That's why the messaging is inconsistent. The government of my country is in a constant state of destruction and renewal due to the competing interests involved. And in my book, that is preferable to the alternative, which is tyranny.

    Good point.

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