dRambo update now live on the AppStore

Luxthor

@ecamburn said:
Drambo curious here.

Earlier in this thread a bunch of folks said they use Loopy & Drambo together. I'm wondering what folks see as the benefits of that workflow are. I can see that Drambo has a sampler, but I take it that clips in the clip view are midi only. Is Drambo like NS2 in that audio has to be hosted inside a sampler device? Maybe that's where the preference comes from, that you're working with rendered audio rather than midi??

I’m using dRambo as a MIDI sequencer and automation recorder in AUM, as well as a custom instrument and FX insert. It’s like a multipurpose tool. So I guess they are using dRambo in Loopy Pro for a similar reason.

gregsmith

I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

uncledave

@gregsmith said:
I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

Hi. I believe those iCloud Drive folders were created by Drambo, when it was installed. They were the original default storage location, but you could switch to Local storage if desired. I've been using Local for a long time now, and cannot see any way to switch back to iCloud. Maybe that would require a clean install. Don't know about sample storage.

gregsmith

@uncledave said:

@gregsmith said:
I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

Hi. I believe those iCloud Drive folders were created by Drambo, when it was installed. They were the original default storage location, but you could switch to Local storage if desired. I've been using Local for a long time now, and cannot see any way to switch back to iCloud. Maybe that would require a clean install. Don't know about sample storage.

Thanks. I might try a clean install and see what happens.

Incidentally, there’s still the option to save projects to iCloud, and I think that uses that folder. Do you have a Samples folder in yours?

Edit: fresh install didn’t prompt a new option

uncledave

@gregsmith said:

@uncledave said:

@gregsmith said:
I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

Hi. I believe those iCloud Drive folders were created by Drambo, when it was installed. They were the original default storage location, but you could switch to Local storage if desired. I've been using Local for a long time now, and cannot see any way to switch back to iCloud. Maybe that would require a clean install. Don't know about sample storage.

Thanks. I might try a clean install and see what happens.

Incidentally, there’s still the option to save projects to iCloud, and I think that uses that folder. Do you have a Samples folder in yours?

Edit: fresh install didn’t prompt a new option

Yes, I have Projects and Samples in the Drambo iCloud folder. As I said, I believe they were created by the very first install of Drambo.

pedro

@gregsmith said:

@uncledave said:

@gregsmith said:
I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

Drambo made those folders, you can only save project files and samples there, in their respective folders, but the save dialog has an option on top to select local/icloud. Doesn’t icloud work for you? I use it all the time to sincronize projects across devices.
You can also save projects with samples into the projects folder by setting the toggle on the save dialog.
If you deleted the folders and recreated them it won’t work though. Don’t know how to point drambo to the new ones. But that happens with every app that saves to icloud (or local for that matter)

gregsmith

@pedro said:

@gregsmith said:

@uncledave said:

@gregsmith said:
I haven’t used Drambo for some time.

Has anything changed with storing samples on iCloud?

I have a folder in my iCloud Drive called Drambo with a subfolder called Projects and one called Samples but I don’t know if I made it at some point or if Drambo made it 🤷‍♂️

Drambo made those folders, you can only save project files and samples there, in their respective folders, but the save dialog has an option on top to select local/icloud. Doesn’t icloud work for you? I use it all the time to sincronize projects across devices.
You can also save projects with samples into the projects folder by setting the toggle on the save dialog.
If you deleted the folders and recreated them it won’t work though. Don’t know how to point drambo to the new ones. But that happens with every app that saves to icloud (or local for that matter)

Projects, yes, of course, no problem.

But I would expect the samples in the iCloud samples folder to show up when you load samples into the flexi sampler or whatever…

I can’t see them there. Just the ones in the local sample directory. This always seemed odd to me.

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

Gravitas

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

gregsmith

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

Gravitas

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

That's what I'm looking into myself.

I don't use iCloud at all however I've just accessed my iCloud to load a sample into Flexisampler
and the sample was imported into the dRambo Local storage before I could load it into Flexisampler
which presumably isn't the desired behaviour.
I would expect that iCloud to be treated as one would treat Local storage.

The iCloud icon is the second icon from the left in the Flexisampler pop up menu for those who don't know.

gregsmith

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

That's what I'm looking into myself.

I don't use iCloud at all however I've just accessed my iCloud to load a sample into Flexisampler
and the sample was imported into the dRambo Local storage before I could load it into Flexisampler
which presumably isn't the desired behaviour.
I would expect that iCloud to be treated as one would treat Local storage.

The iCloud icon is the second icon from the left in the Flexisampler pop up menu for those who don't know.

Do you mean this one circled in red?

I think that just opens the files app integration, which does indeed let you navigate to iCloud. As you describe, I think this is just to copy files to the local samples file system.

So the samples folder in the Drambo iCloud folder remains a mystery

Gravitas

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

That's what I'm looking into myself.

I don't use iCloud at all however I've just accessed my iCloud to load a sample into Flexisampler
and the sample was imported into the dRambo Local storage before I could load it into Flexisampler
which presumably isn't the desired behaviour.
I would expect that iCloud to be treated as one would treat Local storage.

The iCloud icon is the second icon from the left in the Flexisampler pop up menu for those who don't know.

Do you mean this one circled in red?

Yup.

I think that just opens the files app integration, which does indeed let you navigate to iCloud. As you describe, I think this is just to copy files to the local samples file system.

Exactly what I found as well.

So the samples folder in the Drambo iCloud folder remains a mystery

Apparently so and I'm supposed to a be a veteran dRambonaut.

offbrands

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

That's what I'm looking into myself.

I don't use iCloud at all however I've just accessed my iCloud to load a sample into Flexisampler
and the sample was imported into the dRambo Local storage before I could load it into Flexisampler
which presumably isn't the desired behaviour.
I would expect that iCloud to be treated as one would treat Local storage.

The iCloud icon is the second icon from the left in the Flexisampler pop up menu for those who don't know.

Do you mean this one circled in red?

Yup.

I think that just opens the files app integration, which does indeed let you navigate to iCloud. As you describe, I think this is just to copy files to the local samples file system.

Exactly what I found as well.

So the samples folder in the Drambo iCloud folder remains a mystery

Apparently so and I'm supposed to a be a veteran dRambonaut.

This has always confused me so I’m grateful for this thread to figure it out. Cheers for asking @gregsmith and for looking into it @Gravitas

wim

Just for clarification: no app can ever act on data directly from iCloud. If the file isn't cached in local device storage, it is always downloaded to the device before it is used.

So, regardless of whether it's persistently stored in Drambo's file system, iCloud based files are always present on the device in some way if they're being used.

This doesn't change the issues being discussed, but is important to understand in context.

Gravitas

@wim said:
Just for clarification: no app can ever act on data directly from iCloud. If the file isn't cached in local device storage, it is always downloaded to the device before it is used.

So, regardless of whether it's persistently stored in Drambo's file system, iCloud based files are always present on the device in some way if they're being used.

This doesn't change the issues being discussed, but is important to understand in context.

Thanks for the clarification.

Good to know.

I had a mind it was so considering the sandboxing on iOS.

gregsmith

@offbrands said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

@Gravitas said:

@gregsmith said:

I think I see now that the iCloud samples folder is just for samples that you’ve loaded into a project, when you save a project with the ‘save with samples’ option toggled?

When "save with samples" is used that means the samples
used in the project become embedded into the project itself
so whether the samples were from iCloud or on the ipad itself
when you share the project then dRambo will not need to look
for the samples because the samples are already there.
Apologies for the long winded explanation.

As you're having issues with iCloud and dRambo
have you tried toggling "Public File System" in Settings at all?
Does that make a difference?
I'm only asking as you've just done a clean install.

Anyways I've found a couple of issues myself so thanks for the heads up.

Ah ok, thanks for explaining.

So if you put samples in the iCloud > Drambo > Samples folder, do they show up in the list when you hit load in the flexi sampler?

That's what I'm looking into myself.

I don't use iCloud at all however I've just accessed my iCloud to load a sample into Flexisampler
and the sample was imported into the dRambo Local storage before I could load it into Flexisampler
which presumably isn't the desired behaviour.
I would expect that iCloud to be treated as one would treat Local storage.

The iCloud icon is the second icon from the left in the Flexisampler pop up menu for those who don't know.

Do you mean this one circled in red?

Yup.

I think that just opens the files app integration, which does indeed let you navigate to iCloud. As you describe, I think this is just to copy files to the local samples file system.

Exactly what I found as well.

So the samples folder in the Drambo iCloud folder remains a mystery

Apparently so and I'm supposed to a be a veteran dRambonaut.

This has always confused me so I’m grateful for this thread to figure it out. Cheers for asking @gregsmith and for looking into it @Gravitas

Just found my old thread about this on the beepstreet forum:

https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/1563/how-does-icloud-folder-work-with-samples

Forgot I’d even posted this 😂

Gravitas

@gregsmith said:

Just found my old thread about this on the beepstreet forum:

https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/1563/how-does-icloud-folder-work-with-samples

Forgot I’d even posted this 😂

Lolololol.

It happens.

pedro

@gregsmith said:

Just found my old thread about this on the beepstreet forum:

https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/1563/how-does-icloud-folder-work-with-samples

Forgot I’d even posted this 😂

In that thread Giku said he’d add the samples from icloud as an option, but I don’t think he ever did. Right now your only option is to either import to local storage, or if it’s a large number of samples then use webdav that lets you work with the full drambo file system, create folders etc, although that requires a computer

gregsmith

@pedro said:

@gregsmith said:

Just found my old thread about this on the beepstreet forum:

https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/1563/how-does-icloud-folder-work-with-samples

Forgot I’d even posted this 😂

In that thread Giku said he’d add the samples from icloud as an option, but I don’t think he ever did. Right now your only option is to either import to local storage, or if it’s a large number of samples then use webdav that lets you work with the full drambo file system, create folders etc, although that requires a computer

I don’t think he did either.

How about it @giku_beepstreet 😉

pedro

@gregsmith said:

@pedro said:

@gregsmith said:

Just found my old thread about this on the beepstreet forum:

https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/1563/how-does-icloud-folder-work-with-samples

Forgot I’d even posted this 😂

In that thread Giku said he’d add the samples from icloud as an option, but I don’t think he ever did. Right now your only option is to either import to local storage, or if it’s a large number of samples then use webdav that lets you work with the full drambo file system, create folders etc, although that requires a computer

I don’t think he did either.

How about it @giku_beepstreet 😉

I mean importing samples from iCloud to local storage, NOT including iCloud stored samples in our projects. That would be, if not impossible, a total nightmare both for Giku to program and for us to use. I prefer drambo to also work offline!

wim

The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

For something like a note taking app that's fine, you just end up needing to wait a bit longer to access the file. An audio app however has real-time audio processing to contend with. If they can't rely on instant and consistent access to a file it makes things very difficult. Modifying an app to deal with a situation like that involves digging into some of the deepest innards of the critical audio processing parts of the app, launching parallel threads to wait for the file to be available, and then deal with what has happened real-time in the meantime. It can be a hard, hard thing to do successfully.

Yes, there are apps that have for the most part built the logic needed to gracefully handle that situation. AudioLayer, Loopy Pro, and possibly Hammerhead come to mind, but there are plenty of others that either act unpredictably or that put up big warnings (such as KQ isfizz) about using samples stored in iCloud. Most don't even try for these reasons.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice if all apps handled it gracefully (at least until you don't have internet and can't access the file at all). I'm just explaining why that's not as simple as simply enabling iCloud support in the app.

As someone who often likes to make music on backpacking trips where there is no signal, iCloud is a total roadblock. Any app that's using samples in iCloud is more than likely to be non operable in those situations. I recognize not that many people are in that situation often though.

Gravitas

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

wim

@Gravitas said:

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

They're trying to balance between performance and local storage requirements. Whatever algorithm they use, I'm sure it's not factored around musicians' needs. 😉

What I wish for is the ability to mark individual folders and files to always stay locally stored. That's not well aligned with Apple's design philosophy though. [edit] it's been added in iOS/iPadOS 18 - see below.

Gravitas

@wim said:

@Gravitas said:

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

They're trying to balance between performance and local storage requirements. Whatever algorithm they use, I'm sure it's not factored around musicians' needs. 😉

Agreed.

What I wish for is the ability to mark individual folders and files to always stay locally stored. That's not well aligned with Apple's design philosophy though.

Once again agreed.
Like I've said I've been lucky so far with samples not going missing from local storage.
I'v had a couple of moments when using external harddrives
and importing stuff on to my iPad and now I'm very careful when doing so.

offbrands

@wim said:

@Gravitas said:

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

They're trying to balance between performance and local storage requirements. Whatever algorithm they use, I'm sure it's not factored around musicians' needs. 😉

What I wish for is the ability to mark individual folders and files to always stay locally stored. That's not well aligned with Apple's design philosophy though.

They have this on iOS 18!
Navigate to iCloud - Press and Hold on a Folder or File
Option to Keep Downloaded appears

wim

@offbrands said:

@wim said:

@Gravitas said:

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

They're trying to balance between performance and local storage requirements. Whatever algorithm they use, I'm sure it's not factored around musicians' needs. 😉

What I wish for is the ability to mark individual folders and files to always stay locally stored. That's not well aligned with Apple's design philosophy though.

They have this on iOS 18!
Navigate to iCloud - Press and Hold on a Folder or File
Option to Keep Downloaded appears

Nice!!
I'm still holding off updating for a month or so since app issues are still trickling in, but I that feature will be insanely useful. Thanks for pointing that out!

offbrands

@wim said:

@offbrands said:

@wim said:

@Gravitas said:

@wim said:
The difficulty of making an app use iCloud based samples is there's no guarantee they'll be present on device when needed. Apple often and invisibly removes files from local storage to manage space used on your device.

Oh wow.
I didn't realise that Apple did this, I've been lucky so far then.

They're trying to balance between performance and local storage requirements. Whatever algorithm they use, I'm sure it's not factored around musicians' needs. 😉

What I wish for is the ability to mark individual folders and files to always stay locally stored. That's not well aligned with Apple's design philosophy though.

They have this on iOS 18!
Navigate to iCloud - Press and Hold on a Folder or File
Option to Keep Downloaded appears

Nice!!
I'm still holding off updating for a month or so since app issues are still trickling in, but I that feature will be insanely useful. Thanks for pointing that out!

Just glad to finally help ya out @wim 🙏🏽 - Still uneven I’m afraid but stoked nonetheless! 😅