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Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. I haven't yet decided and I do have a hardware drum machine that I have been using. Gravitas, I do play with a real drummer most of the time, but I get offered gigs where there is no space or budget for drums. Garage band drummers do sound good, but I'm not sure how reliable that is for live use. I only have Soft Drummer and Rock Drum Machine Lumbeat apps. I've read that Funk Drummer has more usable fills. Can anyone confirm that? I also have Drambo and Koala but I haven't figured out how to use them as drum apps. I'm thinking maybe EG Pulse or Digistix might work. They include samples and I think I can load patterns with MIDI. They also include patterns. I can in make patterns in real time or with a step sequencer, but patterns created by real drummers sound better.
I've been wondering if your use case in live work is for more freeform stuff or if it's fixed verse, chorus, etc structured songs. If it's structured songs then the most reliable is to commit some good drum parts including fills to audio and trigger them when needed. That's always going to be way, way more stable than relying on a live generating app, and you have more time to hone the parts ahead of time.
My live work is fixed verse, chorus, etc, but I don't want to sequence whole songs. I like to keep it flexible. That's how I use the hardware drum machine (repeating patterns and I trigger fills with pedals) But the hardware machine is old (Alesis SR18) and it won't load patterns and tempos with midi. I believe drum apps are much more capable, I just need to find the right one.
I haven't used either one.
When I started using dRambo I stopped using any other sequencers
namely because I can build sequencers and racheting devices inside dRambo
and dRambo's inbuilt sequencer is a really capable sequencer.
My comment about a real drummer was tongue in cheek.
I used to be a pro drummer and I will always suggest a real drummer.
I'm not a fan of Garageband drummers.
They do have some cool grooves but there's something about them that doesn't sit quite right with me.
The one thing I've found when sequencing drums is the simpler the better.
Get the groove happening and once that sits right that's at least 90% of the job done.
Patterns created by real drummers will sound better because
they know how it feels to play and we aim to make them groove.
classic drum machine.
I'm currently building tempates in dRambo which can be triggered
by foot pedals sending cc messages if needed.
There is the inevitable delay when loading files for different songs
however once you've programmed in what you need it's done
it's simply a matter of loading the file for the song you need.
This is from one of the templates that I've been putting together.
Each Pattern lane in dRambo has been assigned a CC message from the Launchpad X
so that it can be triggered externally by the LP X which in turn also triggers the clip lanes in Loopy Pro.
I didn't add fills however that can easily be done.
and this one I did for another thread
sorry for the spamming however it shows what dRambo is capable of as a drum sequencer.
A thought also occurred to me.
If you use drumloops in dRambo or even Loopy Pro then you may not need to do any programming
just trigger the Pattern lanes and they play the loops that you need for your songs.
@musicplayer
what style of music do you perform? or does it matter?
@NeuM does garageband send out midi for it's "drummers" then the OP could
use garageband's midi to save time and assign their own sounds for the patterns created.
I'm not trying to push anything here, but having seen more than one person here who performs live struggling unsuccessfully to find suitable drum accompaniment apps, I'm tossing out a few alternative ideas. Even if they don't fit, they may trigger lines of thinking that lead to results.
One possible approach is gathering up some choices of patterns and fills for each song, then selecting those live. For instance, with Loopy Pro, you could have a Verse pattern to loop normally, with a selection of matching fills and/or variations to trigger as you like on the fly. Then you can switch to a group that has the Chorus collection, etc. That's an easy thing to do with Loopy and with some other apps as well. It can provide a balance between reliability and spontaneity. Tempo changes are possible in this setup as well, though quality can suffer a little at least temporarily with too big tempo changes. When midi looping is available, even large tempo changes will no longer be an issue.
Just a thought.
+1
I forgot. Patterning 3 has a "fill" option for its patterns. Not only can you change patterns with a foot switch, but you can also designate a variation for each to serve as a fill. Add to that the probability functions and it could get somewhere.
It doesn't come with a library of patterns, and I'm almost certain it doesn't come with midi import or a library of patterns though.
It's good for creating random grooves and shifting drum patterns but it takes too much time for creating drum fills.
A little bit to fiddly for songs when performing live.
I can confirm this.
I don't have Patterning 3 but I do have Patterning 2 which presumably is a direct port of Patterning 2.
Does Patterning 3 have midi input? as Patterning 2 doesn't which
would give the OP access to the drum sounds available for download in Patterning 3
so basically using Patterning as a sound module.
Thinking along the lines of midi files, maybe the OP can get drum midi files, load them into
Loopy Pro (when the midi side of things comes out) or dRambo( yes, yes I know I'm biased)
assign the drum sounds needed and then use that.
The main thing is getting good live drum samples.
For playing live, I would simply use pre-recorded loops that can be triggered in sync with a beat, so you can choose beats and fills whenever you like.
Loopy Pro, Drambo, Garageband, Novation Launchpad and so many other apps can do that.
classic rock. Motown, Soul, blues
The OP might be interested in Drum Session. The bad news is that the app appears to be abandoned and it's not AUv3.
However, with "a library of 3600 editable patterns, loops, and fills", it should at least complement whatever you settle on.
https://apps.apple.com/app/drum-session/id1030319584
Patterning 3 is a completely new app, not a direct port of Patterning 2. And it has an AUv3. The fills feature I mentioned is only in P3.
Patterning 3 has midi input. So did Patterning 2.
The Patterning 2 cloud kits are all downloadable in Patterning 3, so no need to use it only as a drum module. You can also use it as a drum module for something like OneShot for even more detailed kits.
yep.
OneShot is a huge leap in that direction, and you can import your own samples. That takes quite a bit of work though.
OneShot doesn't have a sequencer though, so it doesn't tick all the boxes on its own.
I'm wondering if Helium + OneShot might be a decent two-part solution. It's not specifically geared toward drums, but I think it comes with a lot of midi patterns and has a really good system to quickly audition them and build out songs parts.
I could be way off here since I don't own the app and am only going from memory of the intro videos.
It does?
I was playing with it a couple of nights ago and couldn't for the life of me
trigger the drum sounds from an external sequencer.
I could trigger patterns but not the actual sounds themselves.
I'll have another look.
I've heard a lot about OneShot and some of the demo's do sound good.
I'm in no rush though.
As long as the sounds can be triggered that's all that's need.
Thanks.
I missed that.
My apoogies there.
If it can be triggered using a foot pedal it wouldnt matter about it not
being auv3 as the OP has been using an Alesis SR16 for drum duties.
That's more than enough then it's only a matter of finding the suitable drum patterns and fills and selecting the sounds.
Can it host auv3's?
If it can then it can be used to trigger something like OneShot.
Try going to the Record tab and tapping MIDI Learn at the top of the page.
Sure, the OP seems like they're hoping for a more self-contained solution though.
I could be wrong since I removed DrumSession a long time ago, but I don't think it had midi out. I know for certain it wasn't an AUv3 host though.
Drum Session was/is a full-fledged drum sequencer along the lines of DPP with midi in and out. Standalone only. Its drum pads are velocity sensitive along the lines of velocity keyboard. Its drum kits aren’t at the same level as OneShot’s, imo. It seems unlikely it will get any future updates.
I guess it depends on the pedal, but the app description says, "Connect to external drum kits or keyboards by MIDI".
No, it doesn't host anything, but I'm sure you can use something like apeMatrix to route it.
Thanks for setting the record straight. I remember now that you mentioned all that. It has a lot of clips and I was thinking of them as audio loops but you're right, they weren't. I clearly remember having a lot of crashes with it while editing songs though.
doh!!
Okay, made the connection.
The AppStore description states that it does have midi in and midi out.
Has midi in n out and you can export its preset patterns as well.
Too bad DrumSession is abandonware.
Patterning 3 and OneShot! both have Multi-Outs and MIDI In, paired with Drambo and/or other sequencers if desired that support MIDI import, create quite the ocean of choice. I just don't think there's a good enough session drummer app for you at the moment sadly if the current ones aren't meeting your needs.
I'd maybe take the route of committing loops/fills/variations to audio and triggering them via midi in your position, maybe finger drumming/midi triggering other one shots on the side. Patternings generative fills come to mind.
On the topic of your genres of choice, I think you'd enjoy Oneshot's acoustic offerings a lot.
Patterning 3 (&2) has realtime record of midi input or pads , so patterns/fills could be played in for drummer types,
or presumably though I haven’t tried could be used as midi import ? by playing midi file in & recording .
Zenbeats maybe also worth a look , as it has midifile import , drum specific pattern editor , realtime record & drum sampler kits ,
& the LoopBuilder page ( like horizontal Ableton Session View) is designed for live triggering of patterns for verse, chorus ,fills etc.
I don't know if the latest version of GarageBand can easily change a Drummer track into a user editable MIDI track since I don't have the latest version of the software on iPadOS.
On earlier versions of GarageBand on desktop (macOS) it used to be possible to turn a Drummer track into a MIDI track by simply dragging the Drummer generated clip into a MIDI track. The latest version of GarageBand does not do that.
Using Logic Pro on desktop it is trivially easy to simply click on a Drummer track and then right-click on it to "Convert to MIDI Region". Why they don't have this in GarageBand is beyond me. This might also be available for users of Logic Pro on iPad, but again I don't have a new enough iPad to be able to check.
Using Logic Pro on macOS, I frequently use other drum and percussion plugins to substitute Apple's own sounds.
Hope I didn't completely misunderstand the question here.
Here's a sample of the drums I produce using the method I illustrated on page 1. I don't have that many fills in this one, but there's an intro fill at the beginning. It's easy to add as many fills as you like though using the library of midi drum loops.
There's a folder for each style labeled "fills" and you just need to copy/paste them in.
No, you didn't misunderstand, I should've said midi from it's drummers however your answer has covered all bases.
Thank you.
^ You're welcome!
Not sure if the video above has any new info since the thread below, but there are some useful tips in the comments.
https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/43733/convert-drummer-to-a-midi-drum-track-in-garageband-ios
^ Yes, this worked for getting GarageBand Drummers out as midi files. Nice one. As mentioned in the comments, it wasn’t necessary to swap between two projects.
… but it seems to be necessary to do some track adding and deleting every time, can’t have a fixed template. GB auto save is a bit annoying in this setup.
The guy had another interesting GB drummer video; record your own sloppy beat, then have a Drummer follow that track. Adjust complexity to your taste.
@Gravitas
Hey ish
So what was the answer to the GB drummer on iPad?
I could’ve downloaded it and tried I guess but it’s a lot to DL when I can just ask
Does the midi from GB convert to midi? If so, is it hard? Or just drag and drop?
I want to use one shot as my kit but I want the midi to be from GB hard rock drummer
(I still like rock Dm almost\as much as Logic drummer but I wanna try )