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AudioPipeline AUv3 (Link AUDIO Send+Receive AUv3 plugins) [AppStore AVAILABLE]

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Comments

  • wimwim
    edited May 7

    @Gavinski said:

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @dendy : I am seeing a fair amount of latency in AUM AND Loopy Pro. Unfortunately, I don’t have time at the moment to look into the details, but it makes me wonder if the latency is being accurately reported. I might be mistaken.

    It seems to me there's significant latency even on device, when using this. I hadn't previously tried it with rhythmic stuff, when I did the results weren't usable. Error from my side? I dunno. DMed Dendy about it, let's see.

    That isn't surprising to me. That has been the case with Sonobus and Loopback as well. My initial take hasn't changed - that this will be loads of fun and useful for making already set up stuff work together, but not much use (for me) for live play.

    I feel like Live Audio is just a nicely polished and more broadly compatible equivalent to what Sonobus and StudioMux tried to provide. AudioPipeline is a very nicely executed and very easy to use plugin with potentially broader application than those two.

    But already set up stuff is not working right either. Too much latency to get sequences playing in time for example.

    That could be due to latency reporting not working right yet, as mentioned a little earlier. Of course, that's no help if the host doesn't have latency compensation.

    This was from apematrix to aum, so maybe an apematrix thing? I don't normally use apematrix, no clue whether it has latency compensation or not. If it works well between hosts which do, that would be nice.

    Be sure you're not monitoring ApeMatrix at the same time as AUM. The mute button on the send plugin is essential. Whatever you do, you only want to be hearing audio out from one host with something like this.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @dendy : I am seeing a fair amount of latency in AUM AND Loopy Pro. Unfortunately, I don’t have time at the moment to look into the details, but it makes me wonder if the latency is being accurately reported. I might be mistaken.

    It seems to me there's significant latency even on device, when using this. I hadn't previously tried it with rhythmic stuff, when I did the results weren't usable. Error from my side? I dunno. DMed Dendy about it, let's see.

    That isn't surprising to me. That has been the case with Sonobus and Loopback as well. My initial take hasn't changed - that this will be loads of fun and useful for making already set up stuff work together, but not much use (for me) for live play.

    I feel like Live Audio is just a nicely polished and more broadly compatible equivalent to what Sonobus and StudioMux tried to provide. AudioPipeline is a very nicely executed and very easy to use plugin with potentially broader application than those two.

    But already set up stuff is not working right either. Too much latency to get sequences playing in time for example.

    That could be due to latency reporting not working right yet, as mentioned a little earlier. Of course, that's no help if the host doesn't have latency compensation.

    This was from apematrix to aum, so maybe an apematrix thing? I don't normally use apematrix, no clue whether it has latency compensation or not. If it works well between hosts which do, that would be nice.

    Be sure you're not monitoring ApeMatrix at the same time as AUM. The mute button on the send plugin is essential.

    Yep, I wasn't, good tip tho

  • dendydendy
    edited May 7

    looks like i underestimated this task.. I did some bad core architectonic decisions on Receiver .. Send part is totally ok but Receiver needs deeper refactor.. will be back later guys ;)

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @dendy said:
    looks like i underestimated this task.. I did some bad core architectonic decisions on Receiver .. Send part is totally ok but Receiver needs deeper refactor.. will be back later guys ;)

    The fate of the ecosystem rests on your shoulders Dendy. No pressure tho! 😜

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim @dendy @Gavinski : fwiw with the loopback plugin on the same device, the latency of audio from aum to loopy pro is on the order of 10 ms and with an adjustment of its latency setting it can be less than that

  • dendydendy

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:
    looks like i underestimated this task.. I did some bad core architectonic decisions on Receiver .. Send part is totally ok but Receiver needs deeper refactor.. will be back later guys ;)

    The fate of the ecosystem rests on your shoulders Dendy. No pressure tho! 😜

    i am 100% sure before i get this fully working someone else will do it too and even better than me LOL

  • wimwim
    edited May 7

    @espiegel123 said:
    @wim @dendy @Gavinski : fwiw with the loopback plugin on the same device, the latency of audio from aum to loopy pro is on the order of 10 ms and with an adjustment of its latency setting it can be less than that

    That is indeed good news. Thanks for measuring!

    That will be pretty darn usable, even for live stuff between hosts on the same device, assuming the latency reporting issues get worked out.

  • ecamburnecamburn

    I’m trying to sample audio from an AUM channel with AudioPipelineSend in Note. The sender seems to be working (the meter on the effect plugin is firing). In Note I have a sampler track and when I click on the mic input to sample the only choice is the iPhone mic. Am I missing something?

    Audio going the other way (Note -> AUM) works well.

  • dendydendy

    @ecamburn said:
    I’m trying to sample audio from an AUM channel with AudioPipelineSend in Note. The sender seems to be working (the meter on the effect plugin is firing). In Note I have a sampler track and when I click on the mic input to sample the only choice is the iPhone mic. Am I missing something?

    Audio going the other way (Note -> AUM) works well.

    that is missing fearure in Note.. they did not implemented receiving part in Note, i guess they use in Note iOS LinkLik which doesn’t support receiving audio just sending.

  • JumpercollinsJumpercollins

    @ecamburn said:
    I’m trying to sample audio from an AUM channel with AudioPipelineSend in Note. The sender seems to be working (the meter on the effect plugin is firing). In Note I have a sampler track and when I click on the mic input to sample the only choice is the iPhone mic. Am I missing something?

    Audio going the other way (Note -> AUM) works well.

    Note and Move are send only not receive. It’s a Ableton restriction.

  • dendydendy
    edited May 8

    @wim @Gavinski @espiegel123

    OK, working hard on rework of Receiver because of those latency issues... looks good so far. Looks like I did horrible workarounds because of that GarageBand problem — I realised this is actually not something I should solve, because even Ableton Live stutters when it's receiving audio from GarageBand :))

    The problem simply is — Link Audio inherently doesn't solve in any way different sample rates of hosts, it just transfers audio, nothing else. It's on the receiver's competence to do some adaptive resampling — if they decide they want to do it — but that is not part of the Link Audio protocol. Ableton Live obviously doesn't care, LOL :))

    But my Receiver WILL care. I just need to avoid trying to autodetect if i need to do resampling (one of the sources of problems why I did some horrible workarounds which caused amongst other thins wrong latency reporting in AUM) — I'll just add a checkbox "Resampler" into the Receiver and leave it up to the user to decide to turn it ON in case of sound stutter on the receiver side (which in most cases will be caused by different sample rate of the sender's host).

    So GarageBand will work with my Receiver, and I can afford to throw away those disgusting workarounds.
    For now all looks tight, I need to do a few more tests, but I have perfect timing inside AUM even for percussive sounds (KICK), and routing AUM <-> ApeMatrix is solid too (you just must set "measurement mode" in ApeMatrix settings — if I correctly understand, that's when ApeMatrix actually does PDC).

    Expect a new version in TestFlight today or tomorrow ;)

    Oh, and I tried that "competitor" LinkEffekt -> when I send from iPad to desktop Ableton Live with it, it doesn't work at al for mel, I'm getting just shown dropouts in Live indicator and no sound ... but my sender works seamlessly — so I'm satisfied, sender looks fine now :+1:

  • axensaxens

    @dendy Hi, LinkEffekt dev here. That sounds like the iOS Local Network permission not being granted. You have to open the LinkEffekt app once after installing so iOS shows the permission prompt. Without it Link Audio can't send. Apple requirement, affects all Link Audio apps (TN3179). After that it should work fine. Nice work on AudioPipeline btw, good to see more Link Audio tools on iOS!

  • axensaxens
    edited May 8

    double post, sorry

  • dendydendy
    edited May 8

    @axens said:
    @dendy Hi, LinkEffekt dev here. That sounds like the iOS Local Network permission not being granted. You have to open the LinkEffekt app once after installing so iOS shows the permission prompt. Without it Link Audio can't send. Apple requirement, affects all Link Audio apps (TN3179). After that it should work fine. Nice work on AudioPipeline btw, good to see more Link Audio tools on iOS!

    That part was ok i granted permissions.. Your send works sesmlessly with my receiver ;) (handshake)

    looks like this was something wrong on Live’s side - it detected your send properly, it was just showing tons of dropouts - after restart of Live it started to work .. Just before a while same thing happened to my send - so there is probably all ok on our side and something not perfect on Live’s side 😆

    I am now rewrititimg all buffer operations to use Accelerate frawework, that way it should be much more efficient, every saved milisecond counts with realtime audio :-))

  • axensaxens

    Glad it works! 👍

  • steve99steve99

    @dendy @axens thank you both for your work (and Ableton), this feels like a major new dawn for a grieving former Studiomux user like myself. Also thanks @brambos as I've been using Battlestation to test, what a great app that is... and of course to AUM.

    Audio Pipeline v.0.1.0 (5) send is not currently working for me in AUM (1.4.7) to Ableton Live (12.4, on MacBook silicon 15.6.1), getting 'no link audio peers' in Live. This is both over cable and WiFi, from an iPad mini 5 (iOS 17.7.2) and iPhone 12 Pro Max (iOS 26.2). LinkEffekt is working and shows up in Live. Have I missed something in configuration? I can see and hear audio in Audio Pipeline in AUM and Link sync is enabled and working between AUM and Ableton.

    My latency with LinkEffekt (with USB to lightning cable) is set around 10ms on the Ableton slider before dropouts occur, not too shabby, even my iOS kick sounds more or less in the zone.

  • ecamburnecamburn
    edited May 8

    @Jumpercollins said:

    @ecamburn said:
    I’m trying to sample audio from an AUM channel with AudioPipelineSend in Note. The sender seems to be working (the meter on the effect plugin is firing). In Note I have a sampler track and when I click on the mic input to sample the only choice is the iPhone mic. Am I missing something?

    Audio going the other way (Note -> AUM) works well.

    Note and Move are send only not receive. It’s a Ableton restriction.

    Unfortunate decision IMO. So within Ableton products the only app/device that receives Link Audio is Live. I’ve seen Move touted as a sampler now that it has audio tracks. It would be nice if they opened up Note and Move so that they accepted audio input from their own audio exchange protocol.

  • tyslothrop1tyslothrop1

    @ecamburn said:

    @Jumpercollins said:

    @ecamburn said:
    I’m trying to sample audio from an AUM channel with AudioPipelineSend in Note. The sender seems to be working (the meter on the effect plugin is firing). In Note I have a sampler track and when I click on the mic input to sample the only choice is the iPhone mic. Am I missing something?

    Audio going the other way (Note -> AUM) works well.

    Note and Move are send only not receive. It’s a Ableton restriction.

    Unfortunate decision IMO. So within Ableton products the only app/device that receives Link Audio is Live. I’ve seen Move touted as a sampler now that it has audio tracks. It would be nice if they opened up Note and Move so that they accepted audio input from their own audio exchange protocol.

    Push standalone can also receive.

  • dendydendy
    edited May 8

    .

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @dendy said:
    .

    Hi Dendy, I see there is a test flight update. Does this one fix the latency issue?

  • wimwim
    edited May 8

    The latest beta is working great so far. Thanks to other commenters, I'm able to get latency over USB to Live with buffer setting down to about 25ms on my 2015 MacBook Pro. Actual latency is under 10ms. 👍🏼

    One small thing I've noticed is when I remove a send instance, it doesn't disappear from the list of peers. I don't know if that's on you or on Ableton. Interestingly, rename of instances updates almost instantaneously in Live, without having to set up the connection again.

  • dendydendy

    hm this Link AUDIO protocol (or at least receiver part of their SDK) needs some effort from Ableton to make it more reliable .. got already TWICE crash of entire Live 12.4 on MAC while testing this one :))

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

  • wimwim
    edited May 8

    @Gavinski said:
    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

    I haven't tested on-device. This was an update about testing over USB to Live on the desktop. I had earlier reported far higher latency.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @wim said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

    I haven't tested on-device. This was an update about testing over USB to Live on the desktop. I had earlier reported far higher latency.

    OK!

  • wimwim

    Good that you clarified though, @Gavinski. I can see how my post could be understood to apply to on-device as well.

  • dendydendy

    @Gavinski said:
    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

    which build, 0.2.0 (2) ??? domyou have turned on “measurement mode” in apematrix ?? it plays totally tight for me, no timimg issues (sender AUM, receiver ApeMatrix)

  • dendydendy

    @wim said:
    The latest beta is working great so far. Thanks to other commenters, I'm able to get latency over USB to Live with buffer setting down to about 25ms on my 2015 MacBook Pro. Actual latency is under 10ms. 👍🏼

    One small thing I've noticed is when I remove a send instance, it doesn't disappear from the list of peers. I don't know if that's on you or on Ableton. Interestingly, rename of instances updates almost instantaneously in Live, without having to set up the connection again.

    you mean in list of channels in my receiver plugin?

    i had some shit there with that appme liquidglass popup, i remove it completely in new build and made there custom dropdown (i dislike those generic swiftui components :))

    Try build 0.2.0 (2), latest one

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @dendy said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

    which build, 0.2.0 (2) ??? domyou have turned on “measurement mode” in apematrix ?? it plays totally tight for me, no timimg issues (sender AUM, receiver ApeMatrix)

    One question mark at a time pls Dendy, otherwise I feel like I've accidentally wandered onto Facebook 😅.

    I downloaded the new beta that was there an hour ago or so, I see there's a new one available now, I'll try it. I'm sending from ape to aum. I'll try with measurement mode on.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Gavinski said:

    @dendy said:

    @Gavinski said:
    Timing issue persists for me, @wim. I downloaded the update, tried the setup I sent to Dendy yesterday again, same serious heavy latency. I guess Dendy is still working on it, otherwise he'd likely have announced it was fixed already.

    which build, 0.2.0 (2) ??? domyou have turned on “measurement mode” in apematrix ?? it plays totally tight for me, no timimg issues (sender AUM, receiver ApeMatrix)

    One question mark at a time pls Dendy, otherwise I feel like I've accidentally wandered onto Facebook 😅.

    I downloaded the new beta that was there an hour ago or so, I see there's a new one available now, I'll try it. I'm sending from ape to aum. I'll try with measurement mode on.

    I didn't adjust anything in apematrix, but yes, with the update the latency problem is not there, sounds good, yay!

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