Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

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Air 2 or Surface 3

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Comments

  • Just wondering what Thumbjam Surface would be like?

  • I was excited by the surface 3 after tim posted something up a few weeks back, but one of the comments bought me back down to earth, benchmarks I've seen just confirm it for me. So I'd say at present the ipad air 2 is the better option imo, far more touch based apps optimised for a mobile platform like the os, far cheaper than the desktop counter parts and unique things like samplr.

    Windows has a great selection of audio apps, especially freeware stuff, but most is targeted at more powerful systems plus mouse and keyboard use, which isn't too bad as the web is generally the same and I enjoy surfing on my ipad, but downsides are the surface 3 looks to be in lightweight mobile territory with a fully blown os, although I'm impressed with how windows has developed in regards to minimum system requirements compared to osx altho ios is a different matter.

    Seems like between them microsoft and apple have the solution for touchbased musicians, but separately they both have a lot of pros and cons, microsoft has the variety in terms of hardware and software albeit most not touch focused, apple has the touchbased software in abundance but lacks the more deeper apps, has a far more intuitive and easy to use touch os which can be critical for getting ideas down fast or if you're out and about, but lacks in communication between apps, exposed file system and choice of hardware, especially in regards to external ports and devices.

    It's interesting to see how the two different approaches are panning out, one ace apple holds is their impressive work in regards to cpu design and having it in house. For me as I have a lot of windows software still and a lot of dual platform licences something like a surface pro, laptop or touchscreen desktop is very tempting, however the tempest drum machine has also been speaking to me softly in my dreams too, decisions and lack of cash:)

    Looking forward to using windows with touch though, not a big fan of the more traditional windows as I grown to love osx and find windows traditional to be convoluted and not very well thought out compared, others will be the opposite, left brain, right brain and all that, but 10 is looking interesting especially with all the osx gestures I use loads. So personally although the price is great the surface 3 seems like the surface rt, good for general lightweight stuff, but when you get bizzy with the fizzy the ipad excels in lightweight mobile music shenanigans, even though connecting to the desktop via itunes and iphoto/photos app is like waking up to a punch in the cahoonas.

  • edited May 2015

    @knewspeak said:
    But what if developers offered touch versions of plugins free with desktop versions? That should be possible, that could encourage people to pay the extra expense of desktop plugins, you get multi format versions, really like we do now AU, VST, AAX, Touch?

    That is how i would love it. Pay for a full blown tool with all whistles and bells and just choose your plug-in format. But with apple is such a thing..... i can use iPhone apps on my iPad but none of these on my mac. I would quite happy with this if i could just use them as standalone app on my mac too. I know there is the mac store but no developer is there...... hellooooo......echoooooo...... But what do i know? ;) My fantasy rolls.....

  • @Cinebient said:

    I am excited at all the possibilities if I had Ableton Live with all the inbuilt goodness including transient warping, excellent sampler, great FX.....add in maybe Sunrizer & Nave Vst's.....then there's my sample library to hand....ooohhhh....I have to give this some serious consideration....

  • @mister_rz, that's why I saying apps like Gadget amongst others here on iOS ported to Windows/Surface would possibly initiate interest in the 'Surface' as a viable music production format, because it's too much at the moment to expect native Windows Hosts and Plugins to run without severe limitations, unless they are optimised for the CPU and make they best use of the touch interface, maybe that needs WIn10, it would be nice to see a VST make full use of all the screen for instance, on windows, at the moment not many do that.

    @Cinebient, it's a dream I would love to see, all my hardware and software working together with great unity, in a way it is easier to interface two systems at opposite sides of the earth, than it is to get my Mac and iPad to interface!

  • Air 1- Air 2 and iOS 8 is a step back-

  • @setAI said:
    Air 1- Air 2 and iOS 8 is a step back-

    I only hope this is a slip up by Apple and not the trend for the future, once upon a time M$oft could do no wrong! and long ago IBM!

  • What functions are most used for multi touch on iPad that I'd miss on Surface 3/pro 3?

  • edited May 2015

    Yes I have. But I think I'm better off using my Wacom tablet for Photoshop and the Intuos Creative Stylus for Procreate - because the iPad screen is optimized for fingers, not for fine tip styluses - that's the same reason I said Surface 3 is probably a better Cintiq alternative than the Air2 (but not nearly good enough...).

    I know there's also an app called Duet Display that would be probably good enough for touch controlling Reason, but probably no multitouch.

  • edited May 2015

    Where iOS is far far beyond desktop tools are most of the UI. At least on my retina macbook a lot audio units look so ugly and bad that even with a great sound i won't use them. F.e. Tera 3 looks really bad compared to the Tera iOS. A few great developers did a good job (u-he, spectrasonics, beepstreet and a few others) but i can't understand that it takes so long for high dpi support UI's. So things moving very slow. Even a lot of Logic's instruments look still so bad. So i doubt we will see any wonders here anytime soon. And touch optimized UI's will take even more time.......

  • @knewspeak said:
    mister_rz, that's why I saying apps like Gadget amongst others here on iOS ported to Windows/Surface would possibly initiate interest in the 'Surface' as a viable music production format, because it's too much at the moment to expect native Windows Hosts and Plugins to run without severe limitations, unless they are optimised for the CPU and make they best use of the touch interface, maybe that needs WIn10, it would be nice to see a VST make full use of all the screen for instance, on windows, at the moment not many do that.

    I can see where your coming from but I think the second part of what you said would get better results, i.e focus on the surface platform strengths and make more use of things like vst's that are optimised for touch and lower powered devices. Apple has iaa, but I'd love to be using au/vst's, apples more strict sandbox security model on ios leaves a lot of open ground for windows, so it would be nice to see what happens outside of straight ports, plus things like driver support for usb devices instead of relying on class compliant stuff. But I can see a lot of apps like gadget going multiplatform like how things are on mac/pc, especially seeing nave, sunrizer making the jump.

  • edited May 2015

    A great exampel is NLog Synth.... there is an iPhone version, an iPad version, a mac store version and an AU/VST.

  • Like with Korg the VST's of MS-20 and Polysix got ported from Desktop versions so, it's certainly possible they could return with touch, but Suface really needs multi-touch, but just imagine a mini-host running lower CPU use plugins controlled by several on screen 'Thumjam' VST plugins, may be a dream, but who knows!

  • I'm still waiting for the m1 and sr to land on ios, wish korg would include all their apps in gadget, think microsoft and apple are heading in similar directions but from opposing angles.

  • @knewspeak said:
    Like with Korg the VST's of MS-20 and Polysix got ported from Desktop versions so, it's certainly possible they could return with touch, but Suface really needs multi-touch, but just imagine a mini-host running lower CPU use plugins controlled by several on screen 'Thumjam' VST plugins, may be a dream, but who knows!

    The way I understand it, the Surface 3 does have multi-touch but in order to use it with desktop software- that software needs to support multi-touch functionality. Like for example I think Reason doesn't support multi-touch but Photoshop on the other hand has got some nice multi-touch functionality like rotating the canvas with two fingers just like in Procreate on the iPad.

  • Ah-ha software dependant, the thing that spurred iOS on was the iPhone, can't see the Windows Phone doing much of that, the Software for the Surface, needs to be optimised for the Surface or ported from another touch system, anyone got any ideas if the surface has any touch enabled games for it?

  • edited May 2015

    I think there are two operating systems on it, one for the windows touch apps and one for desktop windows

    and you can run the touch apps and the desktop software along side each other and again the some desktop software does support multi touch

  • I only saw a bunch of video reviews so I'm not sure if I got all the facts right

  • so what's the consensus on the surface interest here, are more of you interested in the surface pro or the surface 3?

  • I think using apps on a device like the Surface isn't the point.
    The point is that the Surface is a full blown PC and I would love to see that DAW developers make their programs touchable.
    Why using gimmick apps on a Surface if it is possible to use DAWs like Ableton, Cubase or Reaper fully touchable? And all the VST, RTAS or AAX plugins... But I'm dreaming ;-)

  • Something that I value about the iPad that hasn't been touched upon is the price of the software. Coming from the desktop world it blows my mind that most apps are in the $2-$20 range. It would cost thousands if I had to replace my iPad apps with VST or AUs. And the developer scene is neat with new apps coming out every month. Windows tablets barely have any music apps made for it.

  • @mkell424 said:
    Something that I value about the iPad that hasn't been touched upon is the price of the software. Coming from the desktop world it blows my mind that most apps are in the $2-$20 range. It would cost thousands if I had to replace my iPad apps with VST or AUs. And the developer scene is neat with new apps coming out every month. Windows tablets barely have any music apps made for it.

    True but if you want you can get awesome free stuff for windows (and mac) and most of my payed audio units are not available on iOS (or just a limited version).

  • @mkell424 said:
    Something that I value about the iPad that hasn't been touched upon is the price of the software. Coming from the desktop world it blows my mind that most apps are in the $2-$20 range. It would cost thousands if I had to replace my iPad apps with VST or AUs. And the developer scene is neat with new apps coming out every month. Windows

    tablets barely have any music apps made for it.

    This is true, but considering all the apps I've bought since I use my iPad as a music production tool... I already spent a lot of money, too.
    And if I imagine I could use my Komplete 9 instruments and plugins 100% fully touchable on a mobile device like the Surface that would be hard to beat, imho.

  • @Cinebent @Tommygun In my post I was comparing the iPad and the Surface as tablets. If you look at the Surface as a laptop to run Windows program it is very weak.

    I love the idea of a hybrid laptop/tablet it's just that the Surface isn't it. Like I posted above I'd rather keep my iPad and spend the money on a powerful laptop.

    What would be really cool is a OSX/iPad hybrid. Apple has already filed a patent for it.

  • That won't happen until the sales go down..... maybe never. As long as they can sell different devices with different OS they will do it. Somewhere in the future maybe an iPhone could run a full OS in theory.... just connect everything you need via zero latency Wi-Fi super ;)

  • I'm just gonna go back to hitting a rock with sticks, at least until Rock with Sticks 2.0 comes out.

  • @mkell424 said:
    Something that I value about the iPad that hasn't been touched upon is the price of the software. Coming from the desktop world it blows my mind that most apps are in the $2-$20 range. It would cost thousands if I had to replace my iPad apps with VST or AUs. And the developer scene is neat with new apps coming out every month. Windows tablets barely have any music apps made for it.

    +1

    Aside from the software costs, after 15 years of wrestling Windows I'd rather eat my own leg than go back to that platform. Yes iOS 8 can be a PITA at times, but I have the most incredible collection of music making tools literally at my fingertips.

  • @Cinebient said:
    That won't happen until the sales go down..... maybe never. As long as they can sell different devices with different OS they will do it. Somewhere in the future maybe an iPhone could run a full OS in theory.... just connect everything you need via zero latency Wi-Fi super ;)

    This is being developed, it will probably be used for games, multimedia first, but I envisage a modular OS, that is able to utilise each devices resources as needed, maybe a way off yet, but as yet ultra fast high bandwidth wireless, relies on really short distances and line of sight transmission.

  • I doubt many developers here on iOS actually make a living from their music apps, with the introduction of more professional apps, prices have started to rise, so the cost of apps in the future may become more inline with their desktop equivalents.

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