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Comments
I think in terms of audiobus it is a really tough situation. If the app works with AB at the time of writing does it mean this has to be maintained? This gets especially problematic with new devices and IOSs coming out every year. I have to say this is the moment I stopped wishing I were a developer. I guess that's why they have beta testing, even so I still see Michael squashing bugs on daily basis. On the other hand that's his job. I presume it will also depend on how successful the app is but that's how the market works, me as a self employed epcommercial entity must ensure that my business model works of God save me. Not sure where I'm going with this internal dialogue.
I agree @Earsinn 14days is definitely a carrot but Apple absolutely need to stop the unpurchased apps working after that period or it will be a loose-loose situation...and win for the thieves.
+1 Instant trial period. Which is what people have been asking for all along. And why not only charge at the end of the 14 days while we're at it?
I can't believe that it is that hard, to fix the appstore in a way, that returned apps are not downloadable anymore. I really would like to buy Korg Module again, because the initial issues in combination with Gadget have been fixed. But the last time, I tried tu buy it, it was not possible.
The sales pages just need to represent the facts. If the seller is boasting their product works with the current version of AB, or works on all iPads, and it doesn't, then affected customers are going to have purchased a product that doesn't work and they can't get their money back.
Basically they should comply like every other company selling products to the public has to and either make sure their product descriptions accurately reflect what they're selling, or provide refunds if they don't. At the moment they're doing neither.
For me that isn't the issue. I want the app I buy to work as advertised when I buy it. If the developer decides not to continue to support Audiobus updates, and his app is no longer compatible, then if they remove the statement of compatibility from their product description then new customers won't get ripped off.
It's annoying when an app no longer works after an iOS update and the developers stop supporting it, but that's life - you can't tie developers into supporting something for ever and anyway apps are a relatively cheap purchase. What I can't accept is buying a new product based on advertised features that don't actually exist or work in that product. That's a rip off.
Or just do it the Android way:test every app for 2 hours.This would definitely increase my purchases.And i'm already one of the better purchase slaves (not only music related) as well.But having NO rights now to return ANYTHING (no matter how broken it is) is just not acceptable.And now i'll do it like Monzo,being supercareful and it will probably cut my purchases by 50%.Thanks apple for helping me to get over my appaholics.
The sales pages just need to represent the facts. If the seller is boasting their product works with the current version of AB, or works on all iPads, and it doesn't, then affected customers are going to have purchased a product that doesn't work and they can't get their money back.
I think thats a tad simplistic, even though I'm relatively new to iOS it hasn't escaped my attention as to how 'flaky' it all can be. It's a moot point as to what is causing this in multi app set-ups, in particular - what is 'to blame' ? I wish there was more of a vst like maturity to standards regarding things, but there isn't (currently).
I don't get, what is so dramatic and debatable about 14-day try before you buy? Are you really thinking the appstore would be runned down by evil customers who are grabbing content and using pixelmator just for a job in order to return it afterwards? I don't.
ps.: I think people with such intentions have already jailbroken their device and won't pay for anything.
Surely the EU would have something to say about this, though? The point of the 14 day return was that they were ordered to do it. They're effectively trying to get you to remove your own rights by giving you no choice in the matter.
They have more than enough money in the bank to sort out a proper method of trialling apps. 7 day trial, tied to your account to prevent downloading, removing and downloading again.
It's just, I guess, that they won't make as much cash out of it. I certainly do think twice now before I buy anything.
Sure, adding some apps that aren't fully AB compatible will cause the whole chain to play up, but if all developers play the game and ensure their sales pages reflect what their app is actually capable of then it's a simple matter of checking details of the apps you're using to find the culprit.
The reason we're all having the problem of sometimes not knowing what app is causing issues in chains, is because some apps have not updated their AB API, for example, yet the developers are still stating they're fully compatible on their Store page. There are a few apps on my iPad that automatically cause problems when loaded into AB, and the general consensus is they're no longer fully compatible, yet the developers haven't updated their store page and are still boasting full compatibility. That then causes developers for apps such as Audiobus a big headache when customers wrongly accuse them of being the problem.
If Apple remove the right to a refund, then this problem will only get worse.
Try again, I think this is possible now
Thanks for the info!
Just wait until everything is a free trial with a monthly subscription. I'm not looking forward to paying for the same app over and over again every month just to pay for the free trial and some guaranteed updates. I'd rather live by the old adage of, "Buyer Be-aware!"
Why is that the only other option?
It's the only billing model that guarantees that the software will always work as advertised.
Users can try it out, devs get paid monthly to make updates, it stops working... Refunds all around.
Yea - painting an even darker picture to make the current shine. Software companies would love to nail customers with subscriptions, I think - but without customers this would be problematic.
It doesn't need to be darker... What if future daws and softsynths were hosted inside Oculus Rift?
For a bunch of monthly fees (paid to the facebook store), you could record with virtual George Martin and the virtual Beatles, at the virtual amusement park Abbey Road, using virtual instruments, etc...
Perhaps some days don't know. Subscriptions are nearly everywhere nowadays. But this depends not on "get it, or leave it" attitude. The opposite is true, I think. Customers who are eating frogs will be fed with more frogs.
For me it is not so much about guaranteed rights that will even differ from country to country but about customer relationship and satisfaction. This should be in the very own interest of any company long term.
Allowing customers to try a software for a short time and giving it back if it doesn’t fit shouldnt be seen as wishful thinking of hippie-people who aren’t aware of reality. It is really not demanding for too much.
Giving customer the right for returning software within 14 day without question was a nice and clever move. Taking it away on individual persons, based on some „algorithmic“ rules, no one knows of, is like saying „We don’t trust you anymore, you want to rip us off“.
Don’t know if this is really a clever move, long term.
If developers start adopting subscription model I will probably end up going back to playing wood and steel which will almost definitely be for the best anyway.
I'd have to agree with the other posters with respect to Apple coming up with an ineffective policy with respect to their new refund policy for the EU. If the new Apple EU 14 day return policy starts to effect their bottom line, they'll come up with an alternative strategy.
At this point I think it's unrealistic to expect PC DAW/VST stability for iOS, perhaps in a few years this will happen. For many music apps, it's a small development team or individuals with day jobs due to the current economics of iOS. With forums like this, videos, and reviews, I think you can get a good idea of how apps will work out for you.
Perhaps timed, fully working trials would be an alternative. But without subscriptions of course. With every app a parallel timed one could be published. Shouldn't be that of an overhead, development-wise.
Should be one consistent model for all apps apart from games and films due to obvious reasons. But nothing like the current one, which divides customers into good and bad ones.
And - it is not already possible, to invent a pc like update-model? Apps like bias-fx for example are being aware of an already installed bias-app. Couldn't that be used to give existent customers of an app a price-advantage in form of an "update only"-version?
This way big updates can be charged without turning off existent customer that much. After such an update version is installed and started, a flag could be set, after the existent, old version has been detected and the old version could be deleted. More or less like it is common practice on pc's.
'And - it is not already possible, to invent a pc like update-model? Apps like bias-fx for example are being aware of an already installed bias-app. Couldn't that be used to give existent customers of an app a price-advantage in form of an "update only"-version?'
This is already, to a certain extent, happening: Auria -> Auria Pro -> ,Beatmaker 1 -> 2 etc.
There must be a clear difference between an update and a fix though.
Yes - I think it would be fair to charge only updates with a version-change in front of the dot. Maybe this would blow up the appstore quite a bit and confuses some people but it has the advantage, that customers are used to it from pc/mac. Devs like Steinberg are offering a whole bunch of different upgrade-versions and seem to get a living out of it.
Does anyone know if it's actually possible for app vendors to update the product description in app store, seperate from pushing an app update through the Apples pipe?
Apple have found a great way to deal with questions about their unfair policy - they just ignore them. 2 weeks, four emails and not one reply.
My 'brand loyalty' towards Apple is now at none.
"Welcome, my son, to the machine...."
Their support used to be excellent - a few years back I had an issue with a laptop and a knowledgeable bloke in the UK called me back within about 30 seconds of submitting a support request on their website. When I had a problem with the iMac a couple of months ago no callback was available, and I was on hold for 45 minutes before being transferred to a barely audible line in Mumbai with a support worker that was of no help at all. Nothing against overseas call centres, it's just the lines are usually terrible.
I think this experience says it all really - they've removed my rights as a customer to obtain a refund if I buy a product that doesn't work, and are ignoring all efforts to try and rectify the issue via email.
I'm stacked up with work at the moment but I'm going to report them to my credit card company and put in a formal complaint to Trading Standards. Won't have any effect but it'll make me feel better.
@monzo I remember the old 'my little piece of litter won't make any difference' ad series....and I always think of that when it comes to complaining. It's the herd thing, one of our few largely altruistic activities, but if we all do it then the tide rises etc etc. And it feels right. Our central problem (from a music point of view) is that we're a smaller slice of the Apple pie.....(sorry).
I'm tempted to put up a damning tweet - I've got a couple of million followers via various accounts, so might get their attention.
I'm with you brother. You can be the guy with the hair (I on the other hand have some kind of jerkin, which seems about right...)