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Apple says apps that haven't been updated in two years will be "removed from sale"

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Comments

  • @cyberheater said:
    Hopefully will nudge Korg to update their apps to AUV3.

    That's another good example. Korg has been getting a free ride as far as I'm concerned. They should update their apps. No excuses.

  • Not cool. Not at all.

    I hope this decision is unmade, ASAP.

  • wimwim
    edited April 2022

    @NeuM said:

    @cyberheater said:
    Hopefully will nudge Korg to update their apps to AUV3.

    That's another good example. Korg has been getting a free ride as far as I'm concerned. They should update their apps. No excuses.

    Why? As long as they continue to work, on what do you base the obligation to continue to update them? Because you paid once for an app, the developer is obligated to continue to add value to it indefinitely? Have you purchased any other goods or services that work that way?

    Any company is entitled to decide whether the return on investment for updating an app justifies the cost of doing so. They certainly are in a better position to determine that than you or I.

    Considering an app that works as "complete" is not the same as "abandoning" it.

  • I don’t know how these things work behind the scenes, but here is a thought; if a developer simply resubmit it’s app and note ‘minor bug fixes and changes’, that might be all that’s needed to keep an app available. I guess Apple doesn’t know if it actually received a technical update, just a signal in the App Store that the app is still alive and kicking.

  • 🤔🤦‍♂️👎🍏

  • @Slush said:
    I don’t know how these things work behind the scenes, but here is a thought; if a developer simply resubmit it’s app and note ‘minor bug fixes and changes’, that might be all that’s needed to keep an app available. I guess Apple doesn’t know if it actually received a technical update, just a signal in the App Store that the app is still alive and kicking.

    Nope, I answered that above. Apple runs automatic checks on everything before a human even maybe randomly checks it. You might get an update through, but it is probably going to be flagged by the system and it should be. SPAMing the update system to keep your app looking like it's being updated would be anti-consumer.

  • @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    Apple said:
    We are implementing an ongoing process of evaluating apps, removing apps that no longer function as intended, don’t follow current review guidelines, or are outdated.

    That wouldn't be so bad if the App Store review teams actually knew what they were doing. It's hard enough to deal with the normal review process when submitting an AU. The thought that they are going to be doing periodic retroactive reviews really doesn't make me want to submit anything new to the App Store at all.

    But you actually update your apps, so you’re exempt.

    Is it fair to Apple or customers to have thousands (or possibly hundreds of thousands) of questionable apps which haven’t been updated in years occupying space on the App Store, making searches less valuable and more difficult for customers?

    I mean, I see your point, but they’re also a business and they have to be able to set restrictions if the store is overloaded with old abandoned apps, right?

    There are numerous app acquisition companies which buy up and hoard dozens of apps in an attempt to scrape out the last bit of value from them, but since they’re not developers, they never update those apps. I’d like to see those bottom feeders driven off the App Store.

    What's an abandoned app? Like I said above, most of the code in iOS hasn't been touched in years to decades. Apple finally tossed some UI's on some of the builtin AU's that have been around since before iOS existed in the last year. Those were very useful tools that are used in all sorts of applications and they really didn't need any updating (except moving them to 64-bit when that happened). Would the reviewers on the App Store team send Apple a removal notice for those?

    From my point-of-view, if the software works, it doesn't violate any privacy terms, and the dev is paying Apple the $100 required to have things on the App Store, then it isn't abandoned.

    If the problem is that the App Store is a sucking pile of garbage to find quality software on -- and, it is -- then Apple needs to fix their search. I will give Apple some credit, at least if I do an actual search for an app by name, I can find it. This is miles ahead of Google and Amazon in the last year or so.

    Here’s the perfect example of an abandoned app. This used to be a great app, but the developers sold it to an app acquisition company (called “App Holdings”), which holds a dumpster load of old and abandoned apps. The app hasn’t been updated in SEVEN years. This is a DEAD APP and that company is holding dozens of dead apps. And there are a LOT of deadbeat companies like this one on the App Store (I imagine the problem is 10x worse on the Android store). This is garbage that should either be updated to work on the latest version of iOS or it should be axed once and for all.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pearl-guitar/id681094559

    Sounds like you think Oracle should be forced to dump Solaris. Or, Computer Associates should be closed up by the govt. for selling old outdated B2B software that they just purchased from other companies.

    According to the App Store, that app looks like it is compatible with my M1 Mac and runs on the latest iPadOS. Why does it need to be updated? Some people may actually still like that app. Although, given that Apple gives away GB for free with its Smart Guitar, I'd guess that Apple probably kinda killed the interest in the app. Still, for anyone that might want the app, why should it be unavailable to them?

    The App Store clearly shows how long ago it's been since it was updated. If Apple added the order by update date I suggested above, you could make sure you never saw it in a search and wouldn't need to worry about. But, people who might actually want that app could still find it.

  • @Simon said:

    @wim said:
    Nope. When you do a restore, the OS and all apps are forced to the latest version. If apps are gone from the App Store, you lose 'em, though if you have an iMazing backup made before the apps disappeared, you should be able to restore them.

    So if you backup the iPad to a computer, then disconnect that computer from the net... you can't restore your iPad from the backup on the computer?

    Yes. The backup is just the data. The OS and all the apps are downloaded.

  • While I can see how it’s unfair to some developers, on the other hand not updating apps might be costing them new sales, I’m speaking more so of apps that haven’t been updated in like 6 years because some people , myself included, might see it as abandonware. I’ve been about to pull the trigger on apps and didn’t because I’ve been concerned that it might not work well with an OS that’s 5 years newer since an apps last update. In some cases if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, but if an appears to be abandoned that I haven’t bought yet I’m probably not going to buy it.

  • @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    Exactly! If developers are still selling these apps, I don't see why it wouldn't be a requirement to ensure OS stability, squash the odd bug etc. And hopefully the fact that there is such an obligation will encourage certain developers to really take advantage of those deadlines.

  • @uncledave said:
    Yes. The backup is just the data. The OS and all the apps are downloaded.

    Well that sucks! :smiley:

    Thank you for the clarification.

  • @el_bo said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    Exactly! If developers are still selling these apps, I don't see why it wouldn't be a requirement to ensure OS stability, squash the odd bug etc. And hopefully the fact that there is such an obligation will encourage certain developers to really take advantage of those deadlines.

    You are assuming there are bugs or instabilities. The only bug I've had that was caused by an OS update was a bug on Apple's part and I couldn't fix it. (A really nasty bug that broke all apps that used Apple's builtin AU state saving used by presets and DAW documents saving. I was able to write a workaround for new presets and docs and that would recover old presets and docs when Apple finally fixed the issue. They did eventually fix the problem.)

    The audio stuff on iOS and macOS is stable at this point --- has been for a while. Stable software is good. Artificially forcing software updates is bad -- very bad -- always.

  • Total shit. Rather than find out if it works, just delete it if not updated (f o r n o r e a s o n). Lazy, greedy c*%ts.

  • It will be nice to see apps get updates at least every 2 (or is it 3) years and 30 days.
    This creates an incentive not to just abandon an app until it fails to function after an IOS update.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @el_bo said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    Exactly! If developers are still selling these apps, I don't see why it wouldn't be a requirement to ensure OS stability, squash the odd bug etc. And hopefully the fact that there is such an obligation will encourage certain developers to really take advantage of those deadlines.

    You are assuming there are bugs or instabilities. The only bug I've had that was caused by an OS update was a bug on Apple's part and I couldn't fix it. (A really nasty bug that broke all apps that used Apple's builtin AU state saving used by presets and DAW documents saving. I was able to write a workaround for new presets and docs and that would recover old presets and docs when Apple finally fixed the issue. They did eventually fix the problem.)

    The audio stuff on iOS and macOS is stable at this point --- has been for a while. Stable software is good. Artificially forcing software updates is bad -- very bad -- always.

    I'm not assuming there ARE bugs and instabilities. But were I a developer, I'd at least assume the potential to arise given yearly OS updates. I get that that's Apple's fault. And yes...I imagine how frustrating that must be, as a developer. But irrespective of where the blame lies, the customer should feel confident that apps that are being sold are as stable as those involved can insure.

    There are many professions that require the annual, bi-yearly etc. renewal of licenses, regardless of whether there's any changes having occurred since the last renewal. And perhaps, in this case, it'll require nothing more than a short period of Beta-testing to assure current OS-compatibility. A bi-yearly maintenance check-up, if you will Again, I don't think the expectation here is feature-additions, app re-designs etc.

  • @jolico said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    I would imagine this is more likely to affect apps that developers may not be interested in working on anymore. To me that’s not a big deal as I don’t like keeping apps that just age without any upkeep, but it sounds like there are people here who like some of their older apps.

    Hopefully it’s not going to be something that impacts people too often.

    It is a big deal. Basically, there's no such thing as a small change in software. Any change means you need to retest every part and feature of the application. We've all experienced bugs in software that were caused by a dev thinking something that was small and isolated and it turned out to be big and entangled. Every time I submit a change to the App Store, I have to test in every host and scenario that I use. For many devs, this would include new Test Flight releases and organizing all of that testing. It would for me if I were charging people for my apps.

    After that you have to deal with the submission process with Apple. I've had several submissions of bug fixes that ended up costing me days of work and frustration just getting them through Apple. And, I've never had to actually change a single thing in any AU that Apple has rejected to get it through after multiple days of appeals. It's all just days of annoying nonsense trying to explain things to a person that has no idea what an AU is and has had no training on how to test and evaluate them. With Apple's recent submission changes, you are most likely going to have to produce a video showing how the application is supposed to be used.

    My cynical take on this is that Apple is doing this to push less profitable devs out of the App Store.

    The more profitable copies will remain and the originals will disappear.

    What if devs just post a slight icon change once a year?

    That’s the kind of thing that I was thinking - add some code that never gets executed or does nothing, and update it once in a while.

  • YouTube app:

  • @jolico said:
    YouTube app:

    Aka broke tube AU
    Broke tube AU

    Etc etc.

  • edited April 2022

    The buggiest thing on the Apple App Store is the App Store's "search" function.

    Maybe they should delete that? LOL :smiley:

  • @McD said:
    It will be nice to see apps get updates at least every 2 (or is it 3) years and 30 days.
    This creates an incentive not to just abandon an app until it fails to function after an IOS update.

    Or perhaps just result in updates that do nothing or perhaps even create more problems?

  • edited April 2022

    @jolico said:
    YouTube app:

    Read it more like "we spent multiple working days fixing vulnerabilities and don't want to disclose what changed so you won't know where to look next", instead of "we just wanted to push a funny update log".

  • @michael_m said:

    @jolico said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    I would imagine this is more likely to affect apps that developers may not be interested in working on anymore. To me that’s not a big deal as I don’t like keeping apps that just age without any upkeep, but it sounds like there are people here who like some of their older apps.

    Hopefully it’s not going to be something that impacts people too often.

    It is a big deal. Basically, there's no such thing as a small change in software. Any change means you need to retest every part and feature of the application. We've all experienced bugs in software that were caused by a dev thinking something that was small and isolated and it turned out to be big and entangled. Every time I submit a change to the App Store, I have to test in every host and scenario that I use. For many devs, this would include new Test Flight releases and organizing all of that testing. It would for me if I were charging people for my apps.

    After that you have to deal with the submission process with Apple. I've had several submissions of bug fixes that ended up costing me days of work and frustration just getting them through Apple. And, I've never had to actually change a single thing in any AU that Apple has rejected to get it through after multiple days of appeals. It's all just days of annoying nonsense trying to explain things to a person that has no idea what an AU is and has had no training on how to test and evaluate them. With Apple's recent submission changes, you are most likely going to have to produce a video showing how the application is supposed to be used.

    My cynical take on this is that Apple is doing this to push less profitable devs out of the App Store.

    The more profitable copies will remain and the originals will disappear.

    What if devs just post a slight icon change once a year?

    That’s the kind of thing that I was thinking - add some code that never gets executed or does nothing, and update it once in a while.

    Unexecuted code is somewhat trivial to spot, and not likely to pass by Apple's checks.
    Apple does a pretty in-depth analysis to check what you are doing with your app, after all, they don't want you to roll out your own IAP system outside their store or exploit anything.

    The sad fact is that this just hurts the developers. Sometimes an app that hasn't been touched in months or years is just a stable app, and to push a new version you have to fix compatibility issues that were never there before because you need to update libraries that you have no control over.
    That means sometimes multiple days of effort just to get it running back as it should, without even improving anything.

    And then you push an update and it doesn't translate into an uptick in sales, so all that effort could be better spent on a new app. Or an IAP purchase.

    Two cold realities, which I know many here don't like, are: 1) IAPs/subscription sometimes are the only way of keeping an app viable in the long run, and 2) hardware may be outdated the moment it's released, but at least 🍏 can't decide in 2 years that you cannot use it anymore because it hurts the KPIs they show their investors.

  • @el_bo said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @el_bo said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    Exactly! If developers are still selling these apps, I don't see why it wouldn't be a requirement to ensure OS stability, squash the odd bug etc. And hopefully the fact that there is such an obligation will encourage certain developers to really take advantage of those deadlines.

    You are assuming there are bugs or instabilities. The only bug I've had that was caused by an OS update was a bug on Apple's part and I couldn't fix it. (A really nasty bug that broke all apps that used Apple's builtin AU state saving used by presets and DAW documents saving. I was able to write a workaround for new presets and docs and that would recover old presets and docs when Apple finally fixed the issue. They did eventually fix the problem.)

    The audio stuff on iOS and macOS is stable at this point --- has been for a while. Stable software is good. Artificially forcing software updates is bad -- very bad -- always.

    I'm not assuming there ARE bugs and instabilities. But were I a developer, I'd at least assume the potential to arise given yearly OS updates. I get that that's Apple's fault. And yes...I imagine how frustrating that must be, as a developer. But irrespective of where the blame lies, the customer should feel confident that apps that are being sold are as stable as those involved can insure.

    There are many professions that require the annual, bi-yearly etc. renewal of licenses, regardless of whether there's any changes having occurred since the last renewal. And perhaps, in this case, it'll require nothing more than a short period of Beta-testing to assure current OS-compatibility. A bi-yearly maintenance check-up, if you will Again, I don't think the expectation here is feature-additions, app re-designs etc.

    The point I was making is that it is very likely that there are no bugs in an app introduced by an OS update. If there are no bugs introduced, then why update it? If I test my software and don't see any issues or users never report a bug, then I'm not going to update the software. It isn't abandoned. It simply doesn't need fixing. I've had software run as intended for more than 15 years without a single bug fix.

  • @michael_m said:

    @jolico said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @michael_m said:
    It shouldn’t be a big deal for developers who are active. Even if there are no real updates per se, the developer could make some very small changes and update it as “various bug fixes”, which would reset the countdown.

    I would imagine this is more likely to affect apps that developers may not be interested in working on anymore. To me that’s not a big deal as I don’t like keeping apps that just age without any upkeep, but it sounds like there are people here who like some of their older apps.

    Hopefully it’s not going to be something that impacts people too often.

    It is a big deal. Basically, there's no such thing as a small change in software. Any change means you need to retest every part and feature of the application. We've all experienced bugs in software that were caused by a dev thinking something that was small and isolated and it turned out to be big and entangled. Every time I submit a change to the App Store, I have to test in every host and scenario that I use. For many devs, this would include new Test Flight releases and organizing all of that testing. It would for me if I were charging people for my apps.

    After that you have to deal with the submission process with Apple. I've had several submissions of bug fixes that ended up costing me days of work and frustration just getting them through Apple. And, I've never had to actually change a single thing in any AU that Apple has rejected to get it through after multiple days of appeals. It's all just days of annoying nonsense trying to explain things to a person that has no idea what an AU is and has had no training on how to test and evaluate them. With Apple's recent submission changes, you are most likely going to have to produce a video showing how the application is supposed to be used.

    My cynical take on this is that Apple is doing this to push less profitable devs out of the App Store.

    The more profitable copies will remain and the originals will disappear.

    What if devs just post a slight icon change once a year?

    That’s the kind of thing that I was thinking - add some code that never gets executed or does nothing, and update it once in a while.

    That would be incredibly bad engineering practice. It also wouldn't work. The compiler won't add truly unreachable code.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    Apple said:
    We are implementing an ongoing process of evaluating apps, removing apps that no longer function as intended, don’t follow current review guidelines, or are outdated.

    That wouldn't be so bad if the App Store review teams actually knew what they were doing. It's hard enough to deal with the normal review process when submitting an AU. The thought that they are going to be doing periodic retroactive reviews really doesn't make me want to submit anything new to the App Store at all.

    But you actually update your apps, so you’re exempt.

    Is it fair to Apple or customers to have thousands (or possibly hundreds of thousands) of questionable apps which haven’t been updated in years occupying space on the App Store, making searches less valuable and more difficult for customers?

    I mean, I see your point, but they’re also a business and they have to be able to set restrictions if the store is overloaded with old abandoned apps, right?

    There are numerous app acquisition companies which buy up and hoard dozens of apps in an attempt to scrape out the last bit of value from them, but since they’re not developers, they never update those apps. I’d like to see those bottom feeders driven off the App Store.

    What's an abandoned app? Like I said above, most of the code in iOS hasn't been touched in years to decades. Apple finally tossed some UI's on some of the builtin AU's that have been around since before iOS existed in the last year. Those were very useful tools that are used in all sorts of applications and they really didn't need any updating (except moving them to 64-bit when that happened). Would the reviewers on the App Store team send Apple a removal notice for those?

    From my point-of-view, if the software works, it doesn't violate any privacy terms, and the dev is paying Apple the $100 required to have things on the App Store, then it isn't abandoned.

    If the problem is that the App Store is a sucking pile of garbage to find quality software on -- and, it is -- then Apple needs to fix their search. I will give Apple some credit, at least if I do an actual search for an app by name, I can find it. This is miles ahead of Google and Amazon in the last year or so.

    Here’s the perfect example of an abandoned app. This used to be a great app, but the developers sold it to an app acquisition company (called “App Holdings”), which holds a dumpster load of old and abandoned apps. The app hasn’t been updated in SEVEN years. This is a DEAD APP and that company is holding dozens of dead apps. And there are a LOT of deadbeat companies like this one on the App Store (I imagine the problem is 10x worse on the Android store). This is garbage that should either be updated to work on the latest version of iOS or it should be axed once and for all.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pearl-guitar/id681094559

    Sounds like you think Oracle should be forced to dump Solaris. Or, Computer Associates should be closed up by the govt. for selling old outdated B2B software that they just purchased from other companies.

    According to the App Store, that app looks like it is compatible with my M1 Mac and runs on the latest iPadOS. Why does it need to be updated? Some people may actually still like that app. Although, given that Apple gives away GB for free with its Smart Guitar, I'd guess that Apple probably kinda killed the interest in the app. Still, for anyone that might want the app, why should it be unavailable to them?

    The App Store clearly shows how long ago it's been since it was updated. If Apple added the order by update date I suggested above, you could make sure you never saw it in a search and wouldn't need to worry about. But, people who might actually want that app could still find it.

    Why should Apple be required to do things which are antithetical to their business model? The short answer: They shouldn’t. They should regularly jettison things which conflict with their ability to move technology forward.

  • This news helps me make a decision that I've been on the fence about for a while.
    I've decided to ditch mobile music making and going back to hardware and invest in a multitrack recorder. When the time comes to mixdown and master, I will just send my songs out to a digital service. I'm exhausted from updates, crashes, obsolete devices,etc.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    Apple said:
    We are implementing an ongoing process of evaluating apps, removing apps that no longer function as intended, don’t follow current review guidelines, or are outdated.

    That wouldn't be so bad if the App Store review teams actually knew what they were doing. It's hard enough to deal with the normal review process when submitting an AU. The thought that they are going to be doing periodic retroactive reviews really doesn't make me want to submit anything new to the App Store at all.

    But you actually update your apps, so you’re exempt.

    Is it fair to Apple or customers to have thousands (or possibly hundreds of thousands) of questionable apps which haven’t been updated in years occupying space on the App Store, making searches less valuable and more difficult for customers?

    I mean, I see your point, but they’re also a business and they have to be able to set restrictions if the store is overloaded with old abandoned apps, right?

    There are numerous app acquisition companies which buy up and hoard dozens of apps in an attempt to scrape out the last bit of value from them, but since they’re not developers, they never update those apps. I’d like to see those bottom feeders driven off the App Store.

    What's an abandoned app? Like I said above, most of the code in iOS hasn't been touched in years to decades. Apple finally tossed some UI's on some of the builtin AU's that have been around since before iOS existed in the last year. Those were very useful tools that are used in all sorts of applications and they really didn't need any updating (except moving them to 64-bit when that happened). Would the reviewers on the App Store team send Apple a removal notice for those?

    From my point-of-view, if the software works, it doesn't violate any privacy terms, and the dev is paying Apple the $100 required to have things on the App Store, then it isn't abandoned.

    If the problem is that the App Store is a sucking pile of garbage to find quality software on -- and, it is -- then Apple needs to fix their search. I will give Apple some credit, at least if I do an actual search for an app by name, I can find it. This is miles ahead of Google and Amazon in the last year or so.

    Here’s the perfect example of an abandoned app. This used to be a great app, but the developers sold it to an app acquisition company (called “App Holdings”), which holds a dumpster load of old and abandoned apps. The app hasn’t been updated in SEVEN years. This is a DEAD APP and that company is holding dozens of dead apps. And there are a LOT of deadbeat companies like this one on the App Store (I imagine the problem is 10x worse on the Android store). This is garbage that should either be updated to work on the latest version of iOS or it should be axed once and for all.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pearl-guitar/id681094559

    Sounds like you think Oracle should be forced to dump Solaris. Or, Computer Associates should be closed up by the govt. for selling old outdated B2B software that they just purchased from other companies.

    According to the App Store, that app looks like it is compatible with my M1 Mac and runs on the latest iPadOS. Why does it need to be updated? Some people may actually still like that app. Although, given that Apple gives away GB for free with its Smart Guitar, I'd guess that Apple probably kinda killed the interest in the app. Still, for anyone that might want the app, why should it be unavailable to them?

    The App Store clearly shows how long ago it's been since it was updated. If Apple added the order by update date I suggested above, you could make sure you never saw it in a search and wouldn't need to worry about. But, people who might actually want that app could still find it.

    And by the way, that app is NOT compatible with M1 computers.

  • @cyberheater said:
    Hopefully will nudge Korg to update their apps to AUV3.

    I doubt. They mentioned apps needing to be updated, as opposed to making them AUv3 compatible. Korg Gadget as a standalone app works, and they do update the app, even if it is simply adding new sound packs.

    They won’t be as affected by this change, as something like Reason Compact.

  • @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    Apple said:
    We are implementing an ongoing process of evaluating apps, removing apps that no longer function as intended, don’t follow current review guidelines, or are outdated.

    That wouldn't be so bad if the App Store review teams actually knew what they were doing. It's hard enough to deal with the normal review process when submitting an AU. The thought that they are going to be doing periodic retroactive reviews really doesn't make me want to submit anything new to the App Store at all.

    But you actually update your apps, so you’re exempt.

    Is it fair to Apple or customers to have thousands (or possibly hundreds of thousands) of questionable apps which haven’t been updated in years occupying space on the App Store, making searches less valuable and more difficult for customers?

    I mean, I see your point, but they’re also a business and they have to be able to set restrictions if the store is overloaded with old abandoned apps, right?

    There are numerous app acquisition companies which buy up and hoard dozens of apps in an attempt to scrape out the last bit of value from them, but since they’re not developers, they never update those apps. I’d like to see those bottom feeders driven off the App Store.

    What's an abandoned app? Like I said above, most of the code in iOS hasn't been touched in years to decades. Apple finally tossed some UI's on some of the builtin AU's that have been around since before iOS existed in the last year. Those were very useful tools that are used in all sorts of applications and they really didn't need any updating (except moving them to 64-bit when that happened). Would the reviewers on the App Store team send Apple a removal notice for those?

    From my point-of-view, if the software works, it doesn't violate any privacy terms, and the dev is paying Apple the $100 required to have things on the App Store, then it isn't abandoned.

    If the problem is that the App Store is a sucking pile of garbage to find quality software on -- and, it is -- then Apple needs to fix their search. I will give Apple some credit, at least if I do an actual search for an app by name, I can find it. This is miles ahead of Google and Amazon in the last year or so.

    Here’s the perfect example of an abandoned app. This used to be a great app, but the developers sold it to an app acquisition company (called “App Holdings”), which holds a dumpster load of old and abandoned apps. The app hasn’t been updated in SEVEN years. This is a DEAD APP and that company is holding dozens of dead apps. And there are a LOT of deadbeat companies like this one on the App Store (I imagine the problem is 10x worse on the Android store). This is garbage that should either be updated to work on the latest version of iOS or it should be axed once and for all.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pearl-guitar/id681094559

    Sounds like you think Oracle should be forced to dump Solaris. Or, Computer Associates should be closed up by the govt. for selling old outdated B2B software that they just purchased from other companies.

    According to the App Store, that app looks like it is compatible with my M1 Mac and runs on the latest iPadOS. Why does it need to be updated? Some people may actually still like that app. Although, given that Apple gives away GB for free with its Smart Guitar, I'd guess that Apple probably kinda killed the interest in the app. Still, for anyone that might want the app, why should it be unavailable to them?

    The App Store clearly shows how long ago it's been since it was updated. If Apple added the order by update date I suggested above, you could make sure you never saw it in a search and wouldn't need to worry about. But, people who might actually want that app could still find it.

    Why should Apple be required to do things which are antithetical to their business model? The short answer: They shouldn’t. They should regularly jettison things which conflict with their ability to move technology forward.

    They shouldn't be required to do anything. They should have been blocked from buying up all technology companies that would allow other companies to compete with them. Or maybe, patents should all be blocked as they are supposed to enable advancement and innovation in the market but they actually work to do the exact opposite. There's all sorts of political and economic arguments that we could have, but you and I both know that we are going to disagree on these points anyway.

    As a practical matter, my main thing is that the iPad could be so much more than Apple allows it to be. All they need to do is get out of the way. The other point is that Apple is actively driving me away from developing for iOS. I have three pretty much complete AU's that I could release, but I'm simply tired of dealing with Apple. Their campaign to turn users against third party devs and make end users suspicious of all the evil developers is beyond tiring.

  • @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:

    Apple said:
    We are implementing an ongoing process of evaluating apps, removing apps that no longer function as intended, don’t follow current review guidelines, or are outdated.

    That wouldn't be so bad if the App Store review teams actually knew what they were doing. It's hard enough to deal with the normal review process when submitting an AU. The thought that they are going to be doing periodic retroactive reviews really doesn't make me want to submit anything new to the App Store at all.

    But you actually update your apps, so you’re exempt.

    Is it fair to Apple or customers to have thousands (or possibly hundreds of thousands) of questionable apps which haven’t been updated in years occupying space on the App Store, making searches less valuable and more difficult for customers?

    I mean, I see your point, but they’re also a business and they have to be able to set restrictions if the store is overloaded with old abandoned apps, right?

    There are numerous app acquisition companies which buy up and hoard dozens of apps in an attempt to scrape out the last bit of value from them, but since they’re not developers, they never update those apps. I’d like to see those bottom feeders driven off the App Store.

    What's an abandoned app? Like I said above, most of the code in iOS hasn't been touched in years to decades. Apple finally tossed some UI's on some of the builtin AU's that have been around since before iOS existed in the last year. Those were very useful tools that are used in all sorts of applications and they really didn't need any updating (except moving them to 64-bit when that happened). Would the reviewers on the App Store team send Apple a removal notice for those?

    From my point-of-view, if the software works, it doesn't violate any privacy terms, and the dev is paying Apple the $100 required to have things on the App Store, then it isn't abandoned.

    If the problem is that the App Store is a sucking pile of garbage to find quality software on -- and, it is -- then Apple needs to fix their search. I will give Apple some credit, at least if I do an actual search for an app by name, I can find it. This is miles ahead of Google and Amazon in the last year or so.

    Here’s the perfect example of an abandoned app. This used to be a great app, but the developers sold it to an app acquisition company (called “App Holdings”), which holds a dumpster load of old and abandoned apps. The app hasn’t been updated in SEVEN years. This is a DEAD APP and that company is holding dozens of dead apps. And there are a LOT of deadbeat companies like this one on the App Store (I imagine the problem is 10x worse on the Android store). This is garbage that should either be updated to work on the latest version of iOS or it should be axed once and for all.

    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pearl-guitar/id681094559

    Sounds like you think Oracle should be forced to dump Solaris. Or, Computer Associates should be closed up by the govt. for selling old outdated B2B software that they just purchased from other companies.

    According to the App Store, that app looks like it is compatible with my M1 Mac and runs on the latest iPadOS. Why does it need to be updated? Some people may actually still like that app. Although, given that Apple gives away GB for free with its Smart Guitar, I'd guess that Apple probably kinda killed the interest in the app. Still, for anyone that might want the app, why should it be unavailable to them?

    The App Store clearly shows how long ago it's been since it was updated. If Apple added the order by update date I suggested above, you could make sure you never saw it in a search and wouldn't need to worry about. But, people who might actually want that app could still find it.

    Why should Apple be required to do things which are antithetical to their business model? The short answer: They shouldn’t. They should regularly jettison things which conflict with their ability to move technology forward.

    They shouldn't be required to do anything. They should have been blocked from buying up all technology companies that would allow other companies to compete with them. Or maybe, patents should all be blocked as they are supposed to enable advancement and innovation in the market but they actually work to do the exact opposite. There's all sorts of political and economic arguments that we could have, but you and I both know that we are going to disagree on these points anyway.

    As a practical matter, my main thing is that the iPad could be so much more than Apple allows it to be. All they need to do is get out of the way. The other point is that Apple is actively driving me away from developing for iOS. I have three pretty much complete AU's that I could release, but I'm simply tired of dealing with Apple. Their campaign to turn users against third party devs and make end users suspicious of all the evil developers is beyond tiring.

    I don't see any of this in the same way you do and that's fine. I don't expect them to be right all the time, but they're more often right than wrong and the platforms they offer so outshine the alternatives that there really are no alternatives as far as I'm concerned.

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