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Nice! Thanks for looking into it.
I will add this to the todo list.
@MonkeyDrummer
So to be clear that I understand correctly, let me rephrase:
)
The current way the app works is as follows (or a least should be like this I hope
Channel settings (the knobs you get when you open the channels view):
--> Here we have to be careful a bit because there is this setting "Allow mixer override from preset" (see Channels and then the gear icon).
All channel settings (pitch, panning, volume, ...) can be saved in AUM as state and as preset. But:
if "Allow mixer override from preset" is OFF, then the mixer settings are not loaded from the state.
if "Allow mixer override from preset" is ON, then the mixer settings are loaded from the state.
General settings: These are saved by the AUv3, and not exposed to AUM or any of the presets. This includes:
The ideal way how the app works:
Bus mappings and MIDI mappings should be saved as state in AUM.
But I don't think you want to save them as part of the presets right? Otherwise each time you load another preset your bus settings will be overwritten.
“ Bus mappings and MIDI mappings should be saved as state in AUM.”
That’s not happening…
Basically here’s what happens…
Open AUM
Create track
Add percussive to track
Rearrange the pads so they are all on top row
Change midi note for each pad
Map percussive midi out to something like OneShot
Save preset for percussive in AUM.
Close aum
Reopen AUM, choose last state
All the pads and midi notes have reverted to the default state…
I did a video showing what’s happening
Thank you @janm31415 , the velocity sliders are working nicely again.
@MonkeyDrummer
Yes, we agree
I was not very clear but the claim “ Bus mappings and MIDI mappings should be saved as state in AUM.” was under the "Ideal way how the app works". So I meant here: it's not like it is now, but that's how it should be
Great!
Hi Gav,
I certainly understand the appeal of having a proper working app at release, but I think that ship has sailed with the first release
For this last release I think there are still some issues with some of the new features that need to be fixed, as I'm not always aware of the preferred way of working, but overall many of the issues of the first release have been addressed. So in this particular case I think it's better to release incrementally. Anyway, getting there
@janm31415 HI, I saw a while back that pattern selection via midi is now available, but I don't see how to do it.
I've had a bit of a play with sending midi messages but haven't found anything that works yet.... so probably easier to just ask, i figured... Thanks.
Use notes 24 through 31 (C1 - G1 on the AUM keyboard) to select the patterns.
@wim Thanks! I tried from note 0.... Should've tried a few more octaves....
If you go to "Channels", then the "Gear" icon, you can look for the Patterns section, and there you can MIDI learn any key you like for the pattern selection, but the default is indeed notes 24 to 31.
Hi.... I really like this app, It's the only AUv3 app currently that is like a drummer. (the IAA Lumbeat apps being the others, IMHO) But I'm having a couple of issues. I actually have some thoughts and suggestions, but will leave that for another post. Also, really happy with the updates recently made!
I tried mapping the play/stop command as found in the gear icon. I had 2 different results, neither good. I am using Loopy Pro btw.
1/ mapping play/stop to an on-screen widget (ie no hardware midi input) yielded no result at all. I could see the command was 'learned' successfully, but it had no effect.
2/ mapping play/stop to an external controller button caused playback of the pattern not to stop, but restart from the beginning at some random seeming point in the host's cycle. I tried this in AUM and had the same result.
So that's 2 overlapping concerns I guess. NOTE, further discoveries about this at the end!
Related to the last point, I often play a loop on guitar to set the tempo in LPro, and have Perc muted at first. So there is no preset tempo at the start. When I do this and unmute Perc, it has picked up the tempo but is at the wrong point in the cycle. LPro has a feature called "idle", where if an audio source is muted, it doesn't use any processor resources. once it is unmuted or recieves 'signal', it wakes up automatically. So I usually have this Idle setting enabled. When I disabled it Perc didn't have the problem. So I can overcome it, but I wondered how other plug ins behaved. I tried Drum Computer and that caused no issue with idle enabled. So I thought it worth mentioning. Maybe it's related to the Play/Stop issue above.
The last issue is a Perc issue I think.... I have been naming presets using LPro's preset system, so selection can be controlled within that environment. I can also rename my presets within that system, but for Perc they don't seem to stick. I type the new name, hit save, but the old name still appears and is not updated. However If I open a new project in LPro, add Perc, I'll see the new names in the list, and then if I go back to the original Lpro project they'll also appear there. I initially thought this was a LPro issue, but I think it is only happening with Perc, no other app.
Perc is also the only app I've used where my presets named within the LPro system show up in AUM, which is a good thing, but maybe it's related. In another quirk, I opened Perc's own preset browser, and saw the same user preset name 6 times. And no other user presets. Maybe I named that within Perc's system, not sure.
So that's enough I think. Just some issues that make working with Percussive a little weird. But I think it's an awesome app!
If you want me to try anything to narrow things down let me know.
Further discoveries re play/stop.
I thought i'd try mapping some other parameters to see if I could get them to work, and I found "Seq. play/stop" at the end of the list. When I mapped this to my on-screen button with a value of 127 which would get the sequencer to start but not stop. With a value of 0 it would stop but not start. I think I can set up alternate button presses in LPro to work with this, but I wonder whether Perc should respond with a toggle behaviour to this? I don't know enough about midi to know. LPro will give the option to toggle etc when controlling an AUv3's mapped parameter, but when just sending a midi message that option is not there, just CC channel, number and value.
So maybe the Play/stop command is not functional and I should just be using the Seq. play/stop?
Hope this is not too much info!
Hi Justin,
Thanks for your feedback.
Next week I'll take some time to look closer at the preset behaviour that you describe.
As for Play/stop, and Seq. play/stop: Here you should indeed use Seq. play/stop. Maybe I should avoid exposing the regular Play/stop to the parameter set in a DAW.
The Play/Stop parameter is available since V1.0 and it is used when Percussive is run in stand alone mode. It starts or stops the sequencer in standalone mode. When you run Percussive via a DAW such as loopy or AUM, then the Play/Stop parameter is not used anymore, but the sequencer starts together with the "Play" button of your DAW. Since V1.4 there is this new parameter Seq. play/stop that you can use to stop your sequencer when the DAW is running.
I haven't merged these two parameters to one single parameter, because the original Play/Stop parameter is not saved to presets, while the Seq. play/stop parameter is saved to presets.
@jamp, thanks for the reply!
@jamp So here's another of the posts I wanted to make, to help me understand the sequencer. I know there were explanations in the manual but I have found it hard to grasp intuitively...
So if I have anything wrong here can you clarify? Maybe it will help others too.
it seems like mutate is the most important thing....
1/ With mutate off, only steps in the velocity lane will play – chance has no effect. Speaking of velocity, it's related to intensity; a high velocity with low intensity will still be soft (this does seem a little odd as with drums the literal velocity of hitting a drum is the main way to change the volume, which also changes the tone. So maybe intensity is like tone, and velocity is actually like volume?)
2/ With some mutate active, sounds may be triggered even with no steps in the velocity lane, depending on values in the chance lane. And any steps in the velocity lane may not play, if the chance value is low.
3/ Vocabulary 'thinks' like a real drummer. Mutate with zero vocab value is more random in what it plays compared to when there is vocab added. Question: At a less than full vocab value, is there still some of the more 'random' stuff going on? Like, what is the difference between having mutate at 25% and vocab at 75%, and vice versa?
4/ Soul has no effect at zero vocab? It seems that way. Soul seems to increase ghost notes (though so do higher values of mutate?), and it seems generally funkier.
5/ I can hear Solo doing things but not sure what. It's a bit like adding fills? But not really, as they don't seem to be at the end of a group of 8 or 16 bars or whatever. Is there as linkage between solo and other controls? I assume it also must rely on mutate being active.
A dedicated fills after every so many bars would be awesome by the way
6/ the HH/Ride/CB control decides what sound or balance of sounds will be used for any additional notes played due to the mutate value. It doesn't change and steps added in the velocity lane.
So that's my broad understanding of the sequencer, Am I on the right track?
I have a couple of suggestions that I might be bold enough to make, but i'll wait for that. But there is one biggish question I have... Why are there 16 pads for only 8 sounds. I think there was an explanation several pages back but i can't find it and I'm not sure it made sense top me when I read it. Can you describe a use case where these extra pads would be used?
Again, I think this is an awesome app, but maybe many people will find it difficult as the sequencer is a completely new paradigm, one that that is somewhat opaque. And also the sound engine is unusual, maybe unique on this platform. And that has some pluses and minuses.
Thanks for being open to the queries and suggestions!
@JustinOllman
Hi Justin, you're on the right track, but I can help you get closer
Without mutate, the sequencer will play the steps from the velocity lane, adapted by the decay values in the decay lane, and the pitch might also change if the pitch values were adapted in the pitch lane, together with any flam or roll that was provided in the corresponding lanes. The "chance" and "intensity" lanes are ignored, when mutate is not used.
When mutation has a non zero value, things start to become interesting: For each step in the sequencer it is first decided whether this step will mutate or not. The chance that it mutates is given by the value of the mutate knob. If the mutate knob is half way, then each step in the sequencer has 50% chance to be mutated. If the step is not mutated, then it simply follows what is programmed in the velocity/decay/pitch/flam/roll lane. If the step is mutated, then other rules apply:
Let's assume our current step will be mutated. Then there are two mutation trajectories available. The Vocabulary knob decides on which mutation trajectory is followed: The Vocabulary trajectory or the non-Vocabulary trajectory. So if the Vocabulary knob is halfway, you have about 50% chance to end up in any of the trajectories.
The Vocabulary trajectory indeed thinks like a real drummer. There are some patterns that are programmed (mainly using snare, kick, hihat/ride/cowbell), and you can play with regular or halftime beats. There is some emphasis on the back beat, and there are ghost notes. If you crank up the "Soul" button there will be more variety in the velocity of the notes played, giving it a human feel. If the "Soul" button is off, then all ghost notes will have a similar velocity, and all back beats will be louder, but all at the same velocity. Furthermore, you can also play with the "Solo" button, which will modify the patterns that are being played by not only playing hihat,kick,snare, but introducing the toms to give it more the feel of a fill in. The HH/Ride/Cowbell knob can be used to emphasize use of hihat, ride or cowbell.
The non-vocabulary trajectory is more random-like, and the randomness can be programmed in the sequencer by using the "chance" and "intensity" lanes. So let's assume we are now here in the situation that our current step will be mutated, and we will not follow the vocabulary of the internal drummer. Instead we look at the "chance" value for each instrument (drum) in its chance lane and decide wether this drum is a hit or not. By default the chance values are halfway (so at 50%), so that means that each drum has now a 50% chance of being hit at this step. If you don't want a certain drum or cymbal being hit, you can move the chance value to 0%. If you want to be certain of a hit, move it to 100% (note that it is only guaranteed to hit here if our current step is mutated (controlled by the mutate knob), and if our current step follows the non-vocabulary trajectory (controlled by the Vocabulary knob)). The intensity of the drum's hit is controlled with the intensity lane. If you want ghost notes, move the intensity value down. If you want heavy hitting, turn the intensity value up. Note that here also the intensity value of a hit can be modified slightly if the "Soul" knob is turned on, giving a small variety to the velocities of the drums being hit. If Soul is off, then you get exactly the velocities as programmed by the Intensity values.
Take for instance a look at the "Hihats" preset. Here the mutation knob is 100%, so all steps are mutated, but the Vocabulary knob is 0%, so all mutation follow the non-vocabulary trajectory. The Intensity lane of the snare drum is interesting, as you can see clearly how the backbeat is programmed here. You can still hear various ghost notes in the snare, because the Soul knob is 100%, giving some velocity variety to the snare intensities, even when the programmed intensities are 0%.
About the 16 pads, and 8 sequencer lanes. The main restriction here is the 8 sequencer lanes. They are restricted to 8 because of memory consumption restrictions and other technical reasons. On the other hand I added 16 pads, because I didn't have any technical restrictions there, and then you can program more sounds and play with two or more snares, or other creative options that I'm not aware of ...
Also, if you have another external sequencer up front that can output MIDI, you can use all the 16 pads.
I still need to update the manual. (I'm always postponing, as I'd rather work on a new app
)
Hope this makes some sense.
@janm31415 that was a very informative read, thanks for taking the time! It was already easy to get some groove going, but knowing how it works will definitely enhance the jam!
@janm31415 thanks for that in depth explanation, it's going to be useful!
(also, sorry was tagging you wrong!)
I feel like I need to make a flow chart now 😅
What would be the best way to use Percussives midi out into Battalion. The instruments from Percussive don't trigger the right instruments in Battalion and I can't seem to find the way to change the values in Percussive... It might be a sign for me to go to bed! I use Loopy Pro as host if that could matter!
You may need to run the output through a conversion utility such as mfxConvert to alter the notes to what Battalion expects. It's not too difficult to set up. Just route Percussive to mfxConvert and mfxConvert to Battalion, engage learn, then solo one of the Percussive pads. Mess with the note to convert to until the expected sound in Battalion sounds. Then solo the next Percussive pad, and repeat the process until all are mapped. When all is working as it should, save a preset in mfxConvert for future use.
@janm31415 do you think you'd consider adding a way for users to pick which midi notes are output?
Thanks @wim, will check it out tomorrow
That would be great! But there might also be a need to do something about hi hats, open and closed, as Percussive uses one sound design with variable decay rather than 2 different samples.... something like that anyway.
I'm not even necessarily thinking about controlling drums, this can be very good to feed into melodic instruments too. But yes, you're right to point that out - that would be a limitation of using existing jamp perc patches to translate into something that would work well with sample based drums. I couldn't see any way around that other than to create patches from scratch tailored to the drum machine you're trying to control.
On the subject of converting this midi, I've also found it useful to put it through Rozeta Scaler. But to cover all types of situations, allowing the user to make custom setups would be a lot handier than having to use an app like mfxconvert. That said, the dev has already been very gracious in accepting so many of our requests, no pressure 😂🙏
I agree, a very gracious developer 🙏
For Battalion I think it is the midi channel you must set, not the note. The 8 tracks in Battalion listen to midi channel 2-9.
Edit: channel 2-9 if you want to play all 8 tracks chromatically. You also have simple note triggering of all using Channel 1, with note C for track 1 etc.
Good info! mfxConvert can handle those conversions easily.