NEW APP: Super J8 - Inspired by Jupiter-8

catbox · February 13

@Edward_Alexander said:
Someone else mentioned the randomizer, I agree, can we get a true randomizer, maybe in addition to the “pick a random preset” randomizer we have here?

Also, the only other tiny niggle I have is, can we get a setting to increase the brightness of those little red LEDs on the buttons?
My eyes have a hard time seeing if those are on or off.

@AnalogMatthew

Yeah, it was me, but I think it drowned in posts upthread, so totally +1 here. I’d so much love a real randomizer in this (and @AnalogMatthew ’s older synths too.)

dendy · February 13

@egobeats said:
there are some presets that clip, no biggie just quirky.

Are you sure it's clipping and not just internal saturation intentionally added to preset to add drive ? The knob in mixer page ..

dendy · February 13

@hes said:
@dendy said:
@hes said:

@dendy said:

@AnalogMatthew said:
Good eye, but that one’s on purpose. While you’re actively moving cutoff, I give your touch priority so we’re not sending two competing cutoff values to the DSP at the same time. When you release, the LFO mod resumes on the new baseline cutoff. If it still feels weird in practice, I’m open to a smoother handoff there.

Well for live performance this is not ideal decision.. if you have LFO as part of sound and you tweak cutoff, this breaks sound.. i would reconsider this.

Isn't this a design decision required for almost all synthesizers, i.e., any synthesizer that allows LFO modulation of the Filter Cutoff? Or even any synthesizer that has any knob setting that can have LFO modulation?

Is there no standard way that it's handled?

A quick question to ChatGPT gave me this answer:
When a user turns the filter knob while an LFO is active, the resulting filter cutoff 
frequency is the sum of both, where the knob sets the base frequency and the LFO 
modulates it. The LFO acts as a dynamic offset, pushing the filter value above 
and below the base setting defined by the knob. 

    Resulting Value: <Filter cutoff> = <Knob setting> + (<LFO waveform> * <LFO amount>)

    Interaction: If the knob is turned up, the entire range of LFO modulation moves upward. 
     If turned down, it moves downward.

    Performance: This allows for real-time manipulation of a sound's tone, where the LFO 
     creates cyclic movement while the manual knob shifts the overall 
     brightness, as shown in Ableton's live instrument reference and this article on LFOs.
    .
I'm not sure that i understand question but yeah, GPT explained it to you precisely how it should work.
My question was not exactly to you, perhaps more to Matthew. The way Matthew talked about it made it sound like he was unaware of a standard way of handling it. . . . He talks about "two competing cutoff values", bu the proper way to think about it is one cutoff value that is obtained by combining the knob setting and the LFO mod.

Ah yeah.. yes, you are true, this is standard way how all synths handle this.. all modulations are par of patch and there is no reason to bypass some modulation while tweaking any knob just because key is pressed .. so far as i understand it's maybe sort of CPU optimilisation but i don't think it's worth in this case cause it breaks some very important functionality of synthetiser (to behave consistently during live playing). I'm always for top possible quality even for price of higher CPU load. (But i may be completely wrong here, just my speculations based on my limited knowledge)

Meek3 · February 13

Is it really going to be 20-30 dollars?
Because it was also said about other audiokit synths but they never went there.
Should I buy this synth now? Is the question.

Samu · February 13

@cyberheater said:
If I set up an LFO to say 8th and sawtooth and route to VCF and hit a note it will eventually go out of sync. Is that expected behaviour.

Stopped and started the app and it’s not doing it now.

LFOs also seem to go out of sync with the arpeggiator when changing the BPM using basic 1/16 for the LFO and 1/8 for the arpeggiator. Naturally this could be caused by the fact the LFOs have a limit of how fast they can go but this doesn't explain the behavior when lowering the BPM. At 120BPM things work OK, but going up to 140BPM or down to 80BPM and the sync is well, not in sync anymore...

Robin2 · February 13

@Meek3 said:
Is it really going to be 20-30 dollars?
Because it was also said about other audiokit synths but they never went there.
Should I buy this synth now? Is the question.

I was wondering the same and the checked price movements of the last few releases vs their indicated ‘normal price’ as stated in their AppStore descriptions. None of them had ever been at the supposed normal price. Make of that what you will.

Each to their own and, if it works for Matthew, who am I to disagree but I really dislike this marketing approach personally.

nuno_agogo · February 13

@dendy said:

@egobeats said:
there are some presets that clip, no biggie just quirky.

Are you sure it's clipping and not just internal saturation intentionally added to preset to add drive ? The knob in mixer page ..

i can confirm the clipping. it is also present for me in other audiokit king apps btw.

rapidfire · February 13

@catbox said:

@Edward_Alexander said:
Someone else mentioned the randomizer, I agree, can we get a true randomizer, maybe in addition to the “pick a random preset” randomizer we have here?

Also, the only other tiny niggle I have is, can we get a setting to increase the brightness of those little red LEDs on the buttons?
My eyes have a hard time seeing if those are on or off.

@AnalogMatthew

Yeah, it was me, but I think it drowned in posts upthread, so totally +1 here. I’d so much love a real randomizer in this (and @AnalogMatthew ’s older synths too.)

And it’s a +1 from me too👍

rapidfire · February 13

@Meek3 said:
Is it really going to be 20-30 dollars?
Because it was also said about other audiokit synths but they never went there.
Should I buy this synth now? Is the question.

My goodness, the J8 is a fantastic synth, I have not stopped using it from the actual minute it was released, I think everyone on this thread has already answered your question for you 👍

SirMcp · February 13

Insta purchase like 90 % of Matt synths and this is a banger. Best one yet and if you are a Roland head just buy it and the rest will work itself out. It’s an amazing synth and the sound is beyond my paltry words.

pbelgium · February 13

Yes! This sounds great! Thanks, @AnalogMatthew!

A quick search found a list of the original factory presets with settings and audio examples if anyone is interested.

lasselu · February 13

@pbelgium said:
Yes! This sounds great! Thanks, @AnalogMatthew!

A quick search found a list of the original factory presets with settings and audio examples if anyone is interested.

Oh, nice...thank you...

Edward_Alexander · February 13

@pbelgium said:
Yes! This sounds great! Thanks, @AnalogMatthew!

A quick search found a list of the original factory presets with settings and audio examples if anyone is interested.

Oh! Now this is interesting

lasselu · February 13

Here's a pretty good walkthrough of the Jupiter 8...

MobyPixel · February 13

On Clipping:
Since presets are community made there really isn't a set standard on loudness. Mac and iOS allow for volume above 0db in most DAWs while monitoring. Once you record that audio, anything above 0 will clip. In AUv3, the solution is to turn it down or add a peak limiter. Adding a limiter internally in the J8 signal chain would result in a false peak, because in the AUv3 host the user could put a fader above 0 resulting in clipping, or lower the fader compressing the signal well below 0. In standalone, an output limiter could make sense, but in AUv3 it does not. Then you would create a slightly different audio chain in standalone and AUv3 which also isn't ideal.

On Cutoff LFO DSP:
AudioKit the framework is modular in nature. For example, you could have a synth node passed to a reverb node and they each have their own DSP process blocks. Because the LFOs can access most of the parameters, it is safe to assume it lives outside of the synth's DSP process block. So my best guess is that while you're updating the Cutoff value in the synth DSP, the LFO is trying to read that value and adjust it. This could result in parameter smoothing issues or race conditions if the LFO and manual control aren't synced. The challenge is an architectural one, but Matthew is a wizard so I'm sure he could figure it out if that's a feature he chooses to add. It just might have more threading, real-time DSP challenges than it appears from a usability standpoint.

anickt · February 13

muzines.co.uk is an awesome site for the history of many aspects of music from the “good old days”. It’s always interesting to see the “are computers necessary”, “will MIDI make it”, “analog vs digital” discussions. Check it out and support them if you can.

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/eighth-wonder/1996

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/roland-jupiter-8/4613

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/patchwork/8013

https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/patchwork/9088

nuno_agogo · February 13

@MobyPixel said:
On Clipping:
Since presets are community made there really isn't a set standard on loudness. Mac and iOS allow for volume above 0db in most DAWs while monitoring. Once you record that audio, anything above 0 will clip. In AUv3, the solution is to turn it down or add a peak limiter. Adding a limiter internally in the J8 signal chain would result in a false peak, because in the AUv3 host the user could put a fader above 0 resulting in clipping, or lower the fader compressing the signal well below 0. In standalone, an output limiter could make sense, but in AUv3 it does not. Then you would create a slightly different audio chain in standalone and AUv3 which also isn't ideal.

it seems to me the clipping happens in the chain within the apps. i tried to "unclip" some of the presets in the king apps. some by lowering the main volume, some by turning off overdrive or saturation ect. not always i got rid of the clipping. i'll try to find an example...

musikeer · February 13

For me, the clipping seems to occur in the DAW (Cubasis), track level default 0, more so than in the standalone. And not in all presets. Just a quick observation, not tested in every preset etc. But a fantastic app definitely.

Gavinski · February 13

I think btw that when devs collect presets from sound designers for a synth app, the dev should probably make sure before release that the levels are set in a sensible way and fairly uniform in volume. Strangely this often seems not to happen!

anickt · February 13

@Gavinski said:
I think btw that when devs collect presets from sound designers for a synth app, the dev should probably make sure before release that the levels are set in a sensible way and fairly uniform in volume. Strangely this often seems not to happen!

Maybe the sound designers could take on that task in the first place and give the dev a break so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor in the Maldives? 😎✌🏼

mervenca · February 13

This is a magnificent achievement, and it is truly your best app to date. Really looking forward to the prophet emu, then the ipad synth app circle is complete

One possible bug-
The auv3 version VCF key follow doesn't seem to work, or am I doing something wrong..?

anickt · February 13

@mervenca said:
This is a magnificent achievement, and it is truly your best app to date. Really looking forward to the prophet emu, then the ipad synth app circle is complete

One possible bug-
The auv3 version VCF key follow doesn't seem to work, or am I doing something wrong..?

Depending on the patch and the octave it can be subtle. Check out the init preset in the user bank. It should be pretty obvious at C5/C6. Hosted in AUM.

MobyPixel · February 13

I like presets to have headroom to allow the dynamic range to play full chords on a MIDI Keyboard. Monophonic and 1-note sequences tend to be louder. Sine-based instruments are usually louder too to reach the desirable perceived loudness. Personally, I wouldn't want to have my presets boosted by default since they are designed to be played polyphonic. And similarly I wouldn't expect Brice's awesome, aggressive presets to be lowered. Matthew does give us feedback on the presets.

When I record a demo playing through tons of presets I add a peak limiter. If a preset is sounding too smooshed I lower the instrument's level. This is all in regards to the level clipping. I do this with every synth I demo because there is nothing worse than filming a long YT take only to discover half of it is clipping like crazy. @Gavinski Do you do the same?

It sounds like @nuno_agogo's issue might be a separate one: something distorting the signal potentially DSP related before the final output.

Gavinski · February 13

@MobyPixel said:
When I record a demo playing through tons of presets I add a peak limiter. If a preset is sounding too smooshed I lower the instrument's level. This is all in regards to the level clipping. I do this with every synth I demo because there is nothing worse than filming a long YT take only to discover half of it is clipping like crazy. @Gavinski Do you do the same?

I do!

rapidfire · February 13

I have now had the J8 since it was released at midnight on Wednesday (Thursday morning), at first I thought this app is good, but as the hours have rolled by I have discovered I can’t stop playing around with it, it is absolutely phenomenal, the presets that are already in the app are really good, but by just tweaking them and adding vibrato to many of them has now made this my number 1 synth app, it is so exciting to use.
I do agree with others that a random button would be an excellent feature to conjure up new and exciting presets.
Thank you @AnalogMatthew, you have created a diamond among synth apps 👌
Mike

Fear2Stop · February 14

@AnalogMatthew you have outdone yourself . This synth is AMAZING.

And yeah it definitely fits into my sound, which a key selling point for me. That’s always been my first consideration when buying an app…how does it fit into my flow?

Let’s just say I’m already putting it to good use 😎

rapidfire · February 14

@pbelgium said:
Yes! This sounds great! Thanks, @AnalogMatthew!

A quick search found a list of the original factory presets with settings and audio examples if anyone is interested.

Thank you @pbelgium, all of a sudden all Jupiter 8 information is very welcome, I wonder if the patch setting sheets can be used to recreate presets near to the original keyboard, I am interested to find out 👍
Mike

egobeats · February 14

baliw · February 14

@AnalogMatthew , please consider adding a tab selection bar for the lower half, for when using an iPad.

rapidfire · February 14

I put feedback for the J8 on the App Store three days ago (Thursday) but there is no sign of it! It usually only takes 24 hours to appear.

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

NEW APP: Super J8 - Inspired by Jupiter-8

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