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Comments
@stormbeats said:
Where are you from, bro? How did you learn about hip hop culture in NYC?
Dump all your records in the garbage.
Legit samples only come from 8-Track tapes. 🤣
Man it doesn’t matter at all. All the OG producers, guess what they did. They had sample cds and floppies they would trade with each other. Like “dre you gotta give me a disk of your drums” when whoever artist name was tracking at the studio.
And some of the big names have a team of guys that find them sample material. Then they just go through it and pick out what they want to use.
I love sample packs. All the Producer friends I know don’t care, they search through sample packs, “sample” the ones they like and add them to their collection. Then keep it moving.
Collecting different sounds is the name of the game
Hip hop is all about doing whatever the fuck you want. Breaking the rules. Thats what they did initially with the SPs and MPCs
Making whole beats with tiny amounts of ram, speeding the record up to sample more time.
But I will agree as a hip hop head who has lived through it, that there’s is nothing quite like going and digging a few random records. coming home and just getting down with a hardware sampler ( like MPC)
These days I’m mostly too tired to go dig and chop up samples like I did when younger.
One of my favourites videos showcasing that old style of beatmakimg is this video of grap luva
I enjoyed some of the points made on this thread though it has maybe dragged on a bit due to this being a slow week for new releases lol . Now Elliott Garage needs to release sEGments so y'all can go and make some dope samples instead of arguing here. 😂
It’s text...it doesn’t sound like anything
I have over 8000 albums on vinyl.
Check your hearing.
On the cheap I use a pt-01
On the real I use a Stanton straight arm with weighted platter
You can disagree all you want to...that is what having an opinion is.
I don’t really understand how you disagree after reading the post...but cool
I understand the culture of sampling quite a bit...I don’t know why this isn’t obvious yet...but it apparently isn’t...oh well.
Let me list the samplers I have owned...as the sampler is my favorite instrument period...since 1983
I have bought, owned, and extensively used the following...
EPS, eps16plus, mirage rack, asr10, asrx, sp202, emu ultra, gigasampler, reaktor, kontakt, Iris 2, alchemy, beatmaker 1-3, koala, samplr, esx24mkii, mc909, roland fantom x, Yamaha su700, boss sp808ex, zoomhr6, roland mc707, roland mv8000, roland mv8800, roland vp9000, roland vsynth 1, roland vsynth xt, serato sample, various and many ios samplers, nnxt, all the reason sampler such as grain and Kong etc, all the samplers in lpx10.5, audiomulch, MPC live, and Akai force.
I also am quite fluent in everything each one of those do in great depth...
I have what is known as the four kings
I can even tell you, if you are one who likes to Mangle samples into new sounds u will want the four kings
Apple alchemy, izotope iris2, kontakt, Roland vsynth xt....these can do about anything to a sample...rendering anything I may source from a library unrecognizeable even if you played the original.
My favorite sampler of all times is the mighty mighty asr10
My samplers I’ve always wanted to own are the original sp1200 and the k2000 with the digitech effects chip used by Pink Floyd
Best sample album I’ve ever heard ....beastie boys Paul’s boutique.
Best user of a sampler I’ve ever heard.... JDilla
So I respect your opinion, but I still believe this whole thread was an attack! A pure bullshit judgement made toward people who use or make sample libraries. It is exactly that. And IDGAF where you source your samples. A good song is a good song.
And sampling an lp does NOT make you better than another producer using a library on any f()cking day of any year.
Well, whaddaya know? You're absolutely right. And I own a Juno 1! For shame.
Now I want the real answer to your question. The creator doesn't know the answer either! (skip to 12:08)
Thanks for the Iris2 tip. I haven't really used that yet so going to check it out.
Iris is great! It’s really cool for layering any samples and creating deep rich patches...
The FFT editor in it is my favorite thing
Albeit for all it does that is new school, the sampler is old school so timestretch isn’t the star here...
Layers & FFT are where iris2 shines, and the mods are great as well.
**Iris2 is considered the photoshop of samples...this is a good user viewpoint to start.
So hopefully you enjoy it!
It’s foren-sick
Double post
I’m not at all a hip hop musician and I tend to err towards not really caring about where a sample comes from - although I appreciate the amazing sourcing of stuff that people into vinyl can pull off and the Beastie Boys remain the best live act I’ve ever seen.
For me, a key part of making music is embracing constraints and seeing that list of samplers just above reminded me how constraining some of that old technology is. I guess vinyl is old technology, too.
In the 90s I was a guitarist in a three piece shoegazey kind of band and I used to play sampled, noisy drones that were played on a QuickDisk-using Korg SQD-1 sequencer and triggered from a footswitch. But the sampler was an Akai S612 with a mighty 1 second sample time and looping was done with two sliders on the front panel.
I used to feed cassette-recorded stuff into the mic input (because I liked the saturation) and grab sounds then loop them into droney things. The result was completely unrecognizable but (to my ears) wonderful - and it took me ages to get each one just right. Those sliders were so fiddly and sensitive...
I loved it.
My point, for what it’s worth, is that without the constraints of that rubbish equipment I would never have made those sounds. I could have - but I wouldn’t have. There’s definitely some artistic value in using older technology.
Hope this wasn’t too OT.
Thanks, that seems like it would do the trick and is quite affordable. Have you ever tried the scratch switch to actually scratch? Can't see it working, if it's an actual switch. Anyway, scratching wouldn't be my goal...
Switches have been used in scratching from nearly the start of scratching, most people just call them a transform switch, yes you 'can' scratch with it, a scratch is just the record moving back and fore and the volume being turned off and on, in its most basic form that is every scratch that ever existed, unless you are talking baby scratches, which are just record back and fore.
Using a PT01 for sampling is certainly possible, but it is pretty much a fools gold, especially if you vinyl is worth anything, the stock arm and stylus on the PT01 are horrible, they sound horrible and they sit heavily in the groove, which contrary to common sense is neither good for quality or tracking/antiskip, continual repeat playing on a stock PT01 WILL destroy the vinyl.
My PT01 has £500 of mods, and in terms of sound quality is second best to a cheap second hand standard deck off ebay.
Unless you are planning to get into portablism or want a deck to take to the store to preview vinyl quickly, don't get a PT01.
@MrSmileZ
I wouldn't really describe the OP as an attack on anything or anyone. I think it was critical of a certain culture that has been emerging and that isn't really limited to sampling or even music. There are certain apps out there that promise you instant success in whatever it is that they are doing.
"Sound like a pro", "paint like a master", etc. The other day I read something in an app description to the effect of: twist one knob and it will sound like you spent hours on your composition. Well, that might be true for the people who buy the app and myself but a professor of musicology would probably disagree. Strongly.
@stormbeats stated in another post that it was the mpc app that prompted him to make the original post and criticised that apparently the original software is not being maintained while new samplepacks were being advertised. So the original criticism was much more aimed towards a questionable business practice than the use of any kind of sample source as such.
I think we also should take into account the legal aspects of sampling because some people have mentioned that. The music and film industries like no other industries have managed to successfully demonize the concept of the quote.
There is a little used term for sampling called "electroquotation". I think it perfectly describes what sampling can do. It can quote an original work of art (or any kind of real world event) and put it in a new context. While the literary quote is a wide spread cultural technique electroquotation has been (mostly) successfully illegalized by the music and film industries. The big names have it easy. They simply "clear" a sample which is easy for them to do because they are part of the commercial music system. This is a practice that perverts both the history of sample culture and artistic freedom in general.
In this context, sample packs provide a kind of safe haven for the modern samplist. "Sample like in the good old days without any fears of legal repercussions". While those samples might be "royalty free" they unfortunately are also free of any social or musical context. Commercial sample libraries basically subvert the subversive elements of sampling by trying to imitate what can not be imitated: history and context. I really think it should be possible to criticise that aspect of commercial samples.
@Jonny8 thanks again. Yes to all the above.
@Jonny8 have really enjoyed your contributions here in this thread, and learnt a lot. 'Electroquotation' is a new term for me, and puts a very interesting 'spin' (hehe) on the practice of sampling.
@Gavinski @stormbeats Thanks guys. I think the term was coined by John Oswald. There are some rather interesting interviews with him online.
Serious question.
Bands like the Stones and Zeppelin were pilloried in some quarters for releasing Old blues tunes ( essentially accusing them of appropriating Black culture ) they were getting old blues records by mail order from the States, learning the tunes and then playing them to white British audiences.
As they began to write their own stuff, these influences were evident, sometimes note for note and sometimes heavily disguised with distortion, wha and other effects.
If I, as a fifty three year old white Englishman, were to sample Public enemy and tweak those samples would I be appropriating Hip Hop culture?
Is finding an obscure album in a charity shop and learning a guitar part ( like we used to do, lifting the needle off an on repeatedly until we got it ) and then using that ( or a tweaked version of it ) in your own tune sampling?
What’s the current state of usage rights on sampling old vinyl? One thing that I guess sample packs are good for is that they’re already cleared for usage... most of the music/sounds I make are used within films I make so that sort of issue is key and why I stopped sampling directly a long time ago. I get that there is a strategy within music for general release that if you get big enough for the original artist to track you down, then the subsequent fees are the ‘price of entry’ as it were, but I bet even then it’s a right bummer... and in film, you might be ok but it’sa pretty unforgiving industry, don’t even think about trying to sneak something into TV broadcast either 😱
@kin Well, those are really rather difficult questions. Here is an interview with John Leidecker aka Wobbly about this topic:
https://www.furious.com/perfect/jonleidecker.html
Legality regarding sampling is different region to region, UK for instance is much more lax than the states, not all sold sample packs are fully cleared either, quite a few have restricted use policies and you should never blindly use a sample pack assuming it is free and clear to use, read all the licences.
For an example, go look at the Deadmau5 shit storm with the FLS sample packs/Demo projects, that suddenly become illegal to use after he got a bit more famous, they were always illegal to use, but it wasn't made very clear.
Interesting, ta, I’ve normally just passed stuff on to the lawyers with a note saying it’s all good and they’ve never pulled me up on it yet... I’ll have a dig into some of the stuff I’ve recently got and see, chomplr for one...
Say what?
You are a record collector?
Wow, I guess you ARE cool.
But, you still miss the point.
Yeah, no one cares where the sound came from, if they are consumers.
Creators of music do care, pretty much always.
@kin hiphop is niether black or white & this is about sample packs. Nothing to deep By the way Zepplins When The Levee Breaks is hugely respected in hiphop culture So much so that we beatmaking thieves nick the drums and make it our own, to add my very good white mate put me on to that track years back for which Iam eternally grateful. We drink lot of beers and have good talks about the samples.
p.s I was born in Hammersmith London, its a great place London cos we mostly all get on fine regardless of culture. We like beers. I miss the pub.
@Krupa Quite obviously that is true. Of course, most people who work for any kind of media or advertising industry are using commercial samples. And that is also the area where the concept of the commercial sample library originated from (library music).
If you are an independent filmmaker then you probably will not have the funds to hire an orchestra. Commercial samples can be incredibly useful for a number of applications.
But we were talking about artistic aspects of sampling and the history of it. And the criticism is directed towards companies who are trying to market sampling culture and sampling history as such and in the process are perverting or negating exactly that culture and history.
When it comes to the current state of usage rights of other people's works I'd say it's "pending". There is the rather foggy term of "fair use" but copyright laws are not really set in stone and usually decisions are made on an individual basis. There are also enormous differences between different countries. Many trials go through several instances (if the sued party can afford it). The artist Richard Prince who became famous by photographing cigarette adverts from magazines gets sued on a regular basis. Sometimes he wins. Sometimes he loses. But then again copyright in visual/fine art is often handled very differently from music.
Gotcha, cheers 👍
@Jonny8 truth be told most sample packs are pre processed re digitized compreressed eq etc. Is it too much hard work to do ones own processing. But I guess people think we just take samples and thats it. No . Even Fatboy Slim will tell anyone that.
That sounds fantastic.