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Blocs Wave, a new app from the Launchpad for iOS team

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Comments

  • @Launchpadforios said:

    @mireko_2 said:
    I just hit the little "+" to save tracks, it creates a name for the track and that's it. Is there another button elsewhere that you have to press??!

    Just checking, was this issue in Blocs Wave or another app like AUM?

    No it was blocs. Just the way save works. So generally hitting the little + saves a new copy of the project your working on. I now realise this just creates a new blank track. I have to copy the current track to duplicate it and continue working.

    Nothing wrong with the app, just a different approach

  • @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

  • @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

  • edited April 2016

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

    Not likely, it was all live jamming recorded into each slot. Animoog, sampler, kaossillator etc. I wouldn't even know where to start :neutral:

    Eh anyway let's be honest, I'd probably not listen to it or do anything with it anyway. The black hole that is my iPad music creations :wink:

  • @mireko_2 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

    Not likely, it was all live jamming recorded into each slot. Animoog, sampler, kaossillator etc. I wouldn't even know where to start :neutral:

    Eh anyway let's be honest, I'd probably not listen to it or do anything with it anyway. The black hole that is my iPad music creations :wink:

    That's the spirit, chin up :D

  • @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

    Not likely, it was all live jamming recorded into each slot. Animoog, sampler, kaossillator etc. I wouldn't even know where to start :neutral:

    Eh anyway let's be honest, I'd probably not listen to it or do anything with it anyway. The black hole that is my iPad music creations :wink:

    That's the spirit, chin up :D

    Chin up indeed Mister Mireko! When you say you were 'jamming live recorded into each slot' in what way were you jamming live into it?

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

    Not likely, it was all live jamming recorded into each slot. Animoog, sampler, kaossillator etc. I wouldn't even know where to start :neutral:

    Eh anyway let's be honest, I'd probably not listen to it or do anything with it anyway. The black hole that is my iPad music creations :wink:

    That's the spirit, chin up :D

    Chin up indeed Mister Mireko! When you say you were 'jamming live recorded into each slot' in what way were you jamming live into it?

    I've lost more spontaneous music than I've actually finished off tracks. In the future, everything we do will be recorded somewhere for us to laugh at later when we are old and wrinkly :p

  • edited April 2016

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @gjcyrus said:
    Are any of you guys getting drifting? I sliced up a sample in Audioshare using snap to grid and imported into Blocs and while it's in sync with the drum loops for a few minutes, it starts to drift which surprised me since I thought all samples are automatically time stretched?

    I made sure the beats were set to 8 to ensure maybe a 7.99 might be the cause of the problem so not sure if I'm missing something obvious.

    Thanks in advance

    If you still have the file in audioshare that is going out of sync, could you possibly mail it to our support email address and we'll check it out? You can do this straight from audioshare I think. ([email protected])

    Just sent it to you guys. Subject title: Audiobus Forum Drifting Problem. Thanks

    EDIT: I just tried loading it up again and playing it with one of your drum loops that I had been messing with yesterday. It's been about 5 minutes and NO drifting this time. I tried doing all the steps I did yesterday such as auditioning other drum loops and melodies and it's still playing in time. STRANGE. I swear yesterday it was off after a minute or two with the loops initially looping in sync but then after a while, starting at different times. I'm also looking at my imported sample now and it's at 7.99 but tempo exactly at 74. If you guys could just have a zoom feature and ability to import directly from music library, this would be ideal since we wouldn't be dependent on another app (like Audioshare) to do this. BIG credit to Jonathan and Audioshare for at least having the snap to grid feature but his app isn't dedicated to this and all the other apps like Twisted Wave and Hokusai haven't been as precise as using say Audacity on laptop and/or Ableton, but then that defeats the whole point of using ios as it's convenient to just use it wherever you are on your phone/ipad.

  • @AndyPlankton said:

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @gjcyrus said:
    Are any of you guys getting drifting? I sliced up a sample in Audioshare using snap to grid and imported into Blocs and while it's in sync with the drum loops for a few minutes, it starts to drift which surprised me since I thought all samples are automatically time stretched?

    I made sure the beats were set to 8 to ensure maybe a 7.99 might be the cause of the problem so not sure if I'm missing something obvious.

    Thanks in advance

    If you still have the file in audioshare that is going out of sync, could you possibly mail it to our support email address and we'll check it out? You can do this straight from audioshare I think. ([email protected])

    I have done some more digging on the 7.99 beats thing, and can confirm it is nothing to do with Wave, it is in fact occuring when using quantised record in AUM. I haven't yet tried quantised record in ModStep or Wave to see if the same thing happens there. When using this feature in AUM the ending of recordings are not EXACTLY quantised to a beat, there seems to always some small variance of anything from 0.01 to 0.00001 of a beat. You can see this by making a quantised record in AUM, then open the recording in AS, select trim and snap to beat, set the tempo to your original tempo, the number of beats displayed will not necessarily be exact.

    The variance is very small, but if you repeat copy a part over time without quantising the start to a beat each time then it would drift eventually.

    As mentioned before, if when you import into wave you specifiy the number of beats and not the tempo, you will not get any drift or noticeable timing difference.

    @j_liljedahl can you confirm ?

    Yes, there are a couple of reasons for this. The major one is that there are some jitter differences between the two "clocks" used in CoreAudio in iOS, where one is the sampleTime, which is always incrementing by for example 44100 samples per second. The other is the "hostTime" which is a high resolution system clock. The latter is used to drive Ableton Link, and since AUM uses Ableton Link as its clock source, this means that 4 beats at 120 bpm is not always exactly equal to 88200 frames, as would be expected. An interesting thing is that this jitter is present on "most" 32-bit devices, but not on most 64-bit devices! So on my iPad Pro, I actually do get exactly 88200 frames in this case.

    Unfortunately I see no solution to this, except using my own sampleTime-driven clock when Link is disabled. But it would still have the issue when syncing to Link.

    However, even if driven by a perfect sample time, it also depends on the bpm. Not all bpms give an exact count of samples for a given number of beats. For example, 4 beats at 110 bpm at 44100Hz sample rate gives 96218.1818 samples! So in this case, it's impossible to record a sample accurate duration of 4 beats, because an audio file only has whole samples, you can't have a 0.18 fraction of a sample at the end, etc.. Instead the file will be recorded as 96218 samples, which converted back to bpm gives slightly higher than 110 bpm (because the file is a tiny amount shorter than the ideal).

    Thefore, the only reasonable thing to do is for a looping software to stretch/resample the loop to fit an exact musical duration (like N number of beats, or 16ths or whatever it is), including the subsample fractional part of the duration. This is why the AUM FilePlayer node only allows you to enter a given number of beats, and it calculates the actual tempo of the loop for you, which in the above example would be about 110.011 bpm.

  • 110.011bpm looks kind of mystical :p

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @mireko_2 said:

    @lukesleepwalker said:
    I did the same @mireko_2. Sorry to hear you lost something good.

    The UX on save is not intuitive--one of the few areas of this app that is not.

    Yeah I'm kicking myself a bit, normally the first thing I do with an app is save a project and load it to check I got it right. Didn't do that this time and.. Lesson learnt

    The remake will be far better than the original ;)

    Not likely, it was all live jamming recorded into each slot. Animoog, sampler, kaossillator etc. I wouldn't even know where to start :neutral:

    Eh anyway let's be honest, I'd probably not listen to it or do anything with it anyway. The black hole that is my iPad music creations :wink:

    That's the spirit, chin up :D

    Chin up indeed Mister Mireko! When you say you were 'jamming live recorded into each slot' in what way were you jamming live into it?

    Audiobus input> blocs. Infinite record mode and then using slip wave to line up recording. Then trim to loop length wanted. Just change the app on the audiobus input to record a different sound etc

  • and soon, we'll even be able to pan those tracks :), slice those tracks :), do very bad not meaning bad but good things to those tracks :) ... I'm going to dedicate todays lunch to that future.

  • @j_liljedahl said:

    @AndyPlankton said:

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @gjcyrus said:
    Are any of you guys getting drifting? I sliced up a sample in Audioshare using snap to grid and imported into Blocs and while it's in sync with the drum loops for a few minutes, it starts to drift which surprised me since I thought all samples are automatically time stretched?

    I made sure the beats were set to 8 to ensure maybe a 7.99 might be the cause of the problem so not sure if I'm missing something obvious.

    Thanks in advance

    If you still have the file in audioshare that is going out of sync, could you possibly mail it to our support email address and we'll check it out? You can do this straight from audioshare I think. ([email protected])

    I have done some more digging on the 7.99 beats thing, and can confirm it is nothing to do with Wave, it is in fact occuring when using quantised record in AUM. I haven't yet tried quantised record in ModStep or Wave to see if the same thing happens there. When using this feature in AUM the ending of recordings are not EXACTLY quantised to a beat, there seems to always some small variance of anything from 0.01 to 0.00001 of a beat. You can see this by making a quantised record in AUM, then open the recording in AS, select trim and snap to beat, set the tempo to your original tempo, the number of beats displayed will not necessarily be exact.

    The variance is very small, but if you repeat copy a part over time without quantising the start to a beat each time then it would drift eventually.

    As mentioned before, if when you import into wave you specifiy the number of beats and not the tempo, you will not get any drift or noticeable timing difference.

    @j_liljedahl can you confirm ?

    Yes, there are a couple of reasons for this. The major one is that there are some jitter differences between the two "clocks" used in CoreAudio in iOS, where one is the sampleTime, which is always incrementing by for example 44100 samples per second. The other is the "hostTime" which is a high resolution system clock. The latter is used to drive Ableton Link, and since AUM uses Ableton Link as its clock source, this means that 4 beats at 120 bpm is not always exactly equal to 88200 frames, as would be expected. An interesting thing is that this jitter is present on "most" 32-bit devices, but not on most 64-bit devices! So on my iPad Pro, I actually do get exactly 88200 frames in this case.

    Unfortunately I see no solution to this, except using my own sampleTime-driven clock when Link is disabled. But it would still have the issue when syncing to Link.

    However, even if driven by a perfect sample time, it also depends on the bpm. Not all bpms give an exact count of samples for a given number of beats. For example, 4 beats at 110 bpm at 44100Hz sample rate gives 96218.1818 samples! So in this case, it's impossible to record a sample accurate duration of 4 beats, because an audio file only has whole samples, you can't have a 0.18 fraction of a sample at the end, etc.. Instead the file will be recorded as 96218 samples, which converted back to bpm gives slightly higher than 110 bpm (because the file is a tiny amount shorter than the ideal).

    Thefore, the only reasonable thing to do is for a looping software to stretch/resample the loop to fit an exact musical duration (like N number of beats, or 16ths or whatever it is), including the subsample fractional part of the duration. This is why the AUM FilePlayer node only allows you to enter a given number of beats, and it calculates the actual tempo of the loop for you, which in the above example would be about 110.011 bpm.

    Thanks for the as usual very knowledgeable and informative response

  • @mireko_2 said:

    Chin up indeed Mister Mireko! When you say you were 'jamming live recorded into each slot' in what way were you jamming live into it?

    Audiobus input> blocs. Infinite record mode and then using slip wave to line up recording. Then trim to loop length wanted. Just change the app on the audiobus input to record a different sound etc

    Thanks for that. Infinite record mode. I love those three words....

  • give a man a fish and he'll eat a fish, but give him a slicer and he'll make fish tacos...

  • @kobamoto said:
    give a man a fish and he'll eat a fish, but give him a slicer and he'll make fish tacos...

    You shall make fish tacos @kabamoto ! soon.

  • @Launchpadforios said:

    @kobamoto said:
    give a man a fish and he'll eat a fish, but give him a slicer and he'll make fish tacos...

    You shall make fish tacos @kabamoto ! soon.

    :)

  • @Launchpadforios said:

    @kobamoto said:
    give a man a fish and he'll eat a fish, but give him a slicer and he'll make fish tacos...

    You shall make fish tacos @kabamoto ! soon.

    I'd like some tartar sauce with mine please :D

  • @Launchpadforios said:

    @robosardine said:
    Hey Launchpadforios- why do you only answer some of the questions raised here when you visit?
    How do you name imported samples in order that you can see their name whilst playing- instead of them all being called 'imported'?

    Hey @robsardine I didn't apologise yet for not answering your question from a previous page. My bad. It was a busy few days with our Link launch and exporting announcement next week, still that's no real excuse from me. Apologies. I see that someone has answered, but do let me know if you need more information. Matt

    Someone did answer AndyPlankton told us how to name our imported samples by group headings. I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes- so that you know which samples you are bringing in- playing - or copying and pasting etc. At the moment there is no way to identify your sample by looking at the page- apart from knowing it is one of the 'bass' ones.

  • @robosardine said:

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @robosardine said:
    Hey Launchpadforios- why do you only answer some of the questions raised here when you visit?
    How do you name imported samples in order that you can see their name whilst playing- instead of them all being called 'imported'?

    Hey @robsardine I didn't apologise yet for not answering your question from a previous page. My bad. It was a busy few days with our Link launch and exporting announcement next week, still that's no real excuse from me. Apologies. I see that someone has answered, but do let me know if you need more information. Matt

    Someone did answer AndyPlankton told us how to name our imported samples by group headings. I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes- so that you know which samples you are bringing in- playing - or copying and pasting etc. At the moment there is no way to identify your sample by looking at the page- apart from knowing it is one of the 'bass' ones.

    Bing bing bing...

  • @robosardine said:
    I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes.

    Understood. We're looking at to how best to deal with imported samples now, so I'll raise this with the team and put it on our list to review. It's a big list now.

  • @Launchpadforios said:

    @robosardine said:
    I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes.

    Understood. We're looking at to how best to deal with imported samples now, so I'll raise this with the team and put it on our list to review. It's a big list now.

    We're all pulling for you! Still tomorrow before the weekend :)

  • edited April 2016

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @robosardine said:
    I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes.

    Understood. We're looking at to how best to deal with imported samples now, so I'll raise this with the team and put it on our list to review. It's a big list now.

    if you've not already done so, I'd like to request that side chain compression put on the list too, and in keeping with novations uniqueness I'd like to be able to add fx on a per step basis which is something you generally don't see in slicing.

  • @Nathan said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    We're all pulling for you! Still tomorrow before the weekend :)

    Nice. :)

    Ok so in the UK the slang meaning of we're all pulling is maybe what is making me laugh here :p

  • edited April 2016

    Has anyone else noticed Blocs Wave hijacking the Link tempo when you launch it? For example, I'll have Elastic Drums playing at 120 BPM and then launch BW, which was last set at 85 BPM. When it starts, it sets the Link tempo to 85 rather than reading the current tempo of 120 and adjusting to that. I tried reproducing this with different combinations of Link apps - none override the current tempo on launch when another app is running with a different tempo.

    Glaring bug in my view. Can someone test and confirm?

  • @Empolo said:
    Has anyone else noticed Blocs Wave hijacking the Link tempo when you launch it? For example, I'll have Elastic Drums playing at 120 BPM and then launch BW, which was last set at 85 BPM. When it starts, it sets the Link tempo to 85 rather than reading the current tempo of 120 and adjusting to that. I tried reproducing this with different combinations of Link apps - none override the current tempo on launch when another app is running with a different tempo.

    Glaring bug in my view. Can someone test and confirm?

    Tested and confirmed.

  • @Empolo said:
    Has anyone else noticed Blocs Wave hijacking the Link tempo when you launch it? For example, I'll have Elastic Drums playing at 120 BPM and then launch BW, which was last set at 85 BPM. When it starts, it sets the Link tempo to 85 rather than reading the current tempo of 120 and adjusting to that. I tried reproducing this with different combinations of Link apps - none override the current tempo on launch when another app is running with a different tempo.

    Glaring bug in my view. Can someone test and confirm?

    Confirmed too, and yes, it's annoying. Ableton is clear in their documentation that Link is controlled by the "first one in" unless the first Link stops or leaves. This implementation breaks the rule (and breaks the most obvious use case).

  • @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Nathan said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    We're all pulling for you! Still tomorrow before the weekend :)

    Nice. :)

    Ok so in the UK the slang meaning of we're all pulling is maybe what is making me laugh here :p

    I'm bidialectal when it comes to smut.

  • @kobamoto said:

    @Launchpadforios said:

    @robosardine said:
    I want to know if you can make it possible to name the imported samples in order that the name appears in the boxes.

    Understood. We're looking at to how best to deal with imported samples now, so I'll raise this with the team and put it on our list to review. It's a big list now.

    if you've not already done so, I'd like to request that side chain compression put on the list too, and in keeping with novations uniqueness I'd like to be able to add fx on a per step basis which is something you generally don't see in slicing.

    That's fancy. Cool idea

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