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Comments
Glad to be here.
Dan hello
Have your apps benefited from other ppls code...(micheals sdk)?
Hmmm the Audiobus issue seems muddled. I know 200+ apps have AB (approx) and I suppose it's possible that Retronyms codes make it really hard to get AB into, but I'm worried because I don't hear the usual "we love Audiobus and we're working on it" type comments on this forum or that blog. I guess it's those "future plans" that have kept AB from being implemented. That is Retronyms' prerogative. To me it seems like there can easily be great uses for ACP2 with Audioshare, just like there was with the original ACP. Probably the closed system at Retronyms is what upsets most of us. Hopefully Mr Walton will find ways to make opening up the Retronyms universe to AB worth his time and hard work. I'll cross my fingers.
@DanWalton, I really appreciate you stepping into the fray here. A lot of respect for that. Some of us get a little hot under the collar sometimes but there's definitely a good thing going on here between developers and customers. I hope you'll stick around.
Agreed that releasing open source software can take time. For those who haven't, it's like letting people into your house - you want to clean up! Nerd pride is a real thing.
That said, ACP is a big deal to us (as evidenced by this thread!). Releasing it as OSS would allow good devs to iterate on it. Please consider it.
Here's my concern: If things get weird/broken/missing with ACP2 what's Retronyms' motivation to bump those issues up in your queue? You have a pretty long list of things I've seen your customers ask for for quite a while, AudioBus integration among them. And those are from paying customers regarding apps that cost money! Not suggesting you're not listening or slacking but certain things make the cut in a given day and other ones don't. I think it's fair for us to presume (though it may not be true) that you'll make paying customer's needs a priority over non-paying ones. I would.
Releasing AC2 as OSS on Github would, in my mind, help to alleviate that concern. Plus, after the initial crunch of deleting surly comments and refactoring less than glamorous code, it will make your job as standard maintainer easier. If something goes awry with a standard as important as AC2 that will allow other great developers to find it, fix it and simply issue you a pull request. You decide if it addresses the problem to your satisfaction and merge it or send it back with comments. If merged, a build script can take care of recompiling it and offering the new compiled version as a binary download on Github.
Sorry this got so long!
Welcome to the forum @DanWalton!
As far as I understand, this will be possible in a future update of Audiobus. Until then, the AudioShare 2.6 update (currently "in review") can act as an Audiobus-IAA bridge at both input and output port. I'm planning to make some demonstration videos as soon as I find the time...
@DanWalton Hi Dan, I have only one question: Why you integrate IAA in TT only as a Host?
I use TT as a compose music, because isn't a Pro Audio app.
I make song for final production and I need a Pro Daw for final work....so I need to work TT project (or iMPC if you decide to add a song mode) inside Auria for professional editing, and need that TT (and iMPC) is a Node, not only an host.
Sorry to all for my english....I hope you understand the point
@commonstookie
Absolutely our apps have benefited from other peoples code. Lots of iOS, OSX, google components use other peoples code. We use subversion to manage code. Redmine to track bugs. We license and pay for code. We use libraries that have compatible licenses.
I really appreciate the code here from Michael:
http://atastypixel.com/blog/using-remoteio-audio-unit/
We expanded on it on one of our blog posts and released the code.
@NoiseHorse
Thanks for the feedback here. I think it's a misconception that we have a closed universe. Consider:
-We created the original AudioCopy with Sonoma Wireworks with the specific goal of allowing audio apps to be more open. We support this in everything we do. We released the source and I'm not aware of a major contribution from any other developers except from Sonoma and Retronyms.
-We created Cloudseeder a free open source project (free to integrate, modify) to open the music you make on your iPad to the fantastic communities on SoundCloud.
-We contributed to WiST a free open source standard that connects and syncs iPads.
-We support InterApp audio a free standard that opens up Tabletop and iMPC to many other apps. More all the time.
-We released AudioCopy2 a free standard that improves on AudioCopy and continues on the mission to allow music apps to work together better. This is brand new, and we will consider releasing the source.
-We haven't supported AudioBus in Tabletop and iMPC but it looks like that support will come when AudioBus supports InterApp audio.
-We work with other developers like Akai, Arturia and iZotope to make Tabletop-Ready apps happen. At Retronyms we are always working to make more of these partnerships and possibilities happen.
I think the misconception occurs because we just haven't been communicating all this on internet forums enough. We have been too busy making everything so open
@syrupcore
If I were convinced that other developers would make contributions to the source we release this would help tip the scales on the decision. We have released lots of source and other developers don't usually pitch in (that I'm aware of). I agree it's amazing when that does happen.
AudioCopy2 is brand new. Give us a little time. It's our goal to keep the standard great (and free!). If we feel releasing the code will do that then we will.
@j_liljedahl Woah. Amazing. That is some quick work! I'll look forward to the video.
@Sinapsya
Great question and I do understand. Right now we only support part of the IAA protocol. I'd really love to add node support someday!
Hi Dan,
Any news on the IAA effects plug in for Tabletop ?
@DanWalton Can you reply my post up after @j_liljedahl ??
I'd like to take this moment to point something out about software development that took me a long time to fully appreciate:
The cost of a feature is not just the time it takes to build, but the time it takes to integrate it with every future feature that it could interact with.
Simple features that interact with the system in a big way can be extremely and unpredictably expensive.
If you are a software developer on a long running product you probably know what I mean. I think this idea can cause lots of frustration. When a user says, "Why can't it just do this!" Developers often think, "Yes, it may only take a week to build, but it will slow down every future request by much more."
DaveMagoo:
An IAA effects plug would fit right into the way the Tabletop architecture works. This is something I really really want to see happens soon.
@Sinapsya
I'd love to see node support! Hopefully someday.
Thanks Dan...shame that it came to this to
get things out in the open.Hopefully yourself and Jonatan can work this out so that all members of the ios music community benefit.
@DanWalton In my last Album (now out on iTunes) I could not put any Tabletop Song because can't edit properly with separate tracks on a professional DAW...
@commonstookie
Jonatan asked that we change a quote and we did. He seems happy. We have been having technical discussions and I think they will continue. From my point of view there isn't and hasn't been issue there.
I'm here because I want to answer questions and tell everyone about a cool little project we have been working on to improve our AudioCopy standard. Did I mention it's free for iOS musicians and developers?
@DanWalton Thanks for your reply....loking for use your app in serious project in future
@Sinapsya
I totally understand! We need to make better tools to allow this workflow.
Can you link me to your Album? I'd love to hear it.
@DanWalton yes but I send you on your personal email...
Thanks Dan.
@DanWalton just sent
.
@danwalton cheers for the reply. I wasn't trying to sell you on the open source dream! I think a project like the AC2 SDK would in fact get support from the iOS audio dev community - it's a particularly special project that will touch lots of apps and lots of devs and lots of users. It's a very different beast than something like Cloudseeder (which looks very cool). Also, dude, git and in particular github! It's kool-aid worth drinking!
Really, I've never been wrong about anything in my entire life. Ask my mother.
@syrupcore
Thanks for the helpful thoughts here. I've used git and like it. Our svn repo is old and trusty. I like having all the history in there. I don't want to retrain everyone here to use git. (Even our designers use svn).
I dig github too... Maybe in the future. Currently we use Google Code for things like Cloudseeder.
https://code.google.com/p/cloudseeder/
@Simon
It isn't enough to create great products. You have to make sure people are properly informed about them.
.
^ That. Turns out we're mostly old and occasionally grumpy and loyal as shit.
I remember the transition as well. Had the same concerns but it was mostly for not. I actually 'soft switched' first by using git-svn. It allows you to use git locally but still point at an SVN repo. Indeed, you can actually use it to host SVN code on Github. It's how enormous SVN projects like WordPress and Drupal get on the hub today. Also, for sure, if you actually move fully to git you can suck in alllll of your SVN history including branches and tags. Smashingly easy.
I saw that - that's what made me suggest Github.
Feel like for an OSS project to gain traction you really have to go to where the developers are. For now anyway, they're on Github not Google Code.
@Simon
Great thoughts and feedback here. I think all that makes sense.
@syrupcore
Ok. I'll upvote github in my head. I'm sure we will cross that threshold eventually.