Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
@stormJH1 He wants to make sure that users know that they can get it back whenever the want to, I think. Maybe just a little white text sentence underneath the blue heading?
dblpostfail.
@syrupcore @stormJH1 Hmmm maybe just a sentence in the IAP offer description. Doesn't need to take up persistent space on the screen.
Hey @Rhism, any chance we can up the number of available chord buttons from 6 to 9? ...or possibly do something similar to WI Guitar for chord options? I'm loving the app by the way! :-)
@Audiojunkie said:
I like that suggestion too! The chord selector buttons are pretty integral to how the thing works - 9 would probably still fit without making them too small.
Custom chords would be nice but that's a bit more optimistic - the chord library is pretty good.
@Audiojunkie @StormJH1 The general case of "more chord buttons" is something I'd like to cover in the separate composer mode idea that had come up a while back and is pretty interesting to think about. Don't want to mess with the existing interface as it's really designed for a different purpose. OTOH once I think about composition as a scenario it brings up a ton of other interesting ideas.
Custom chords is the #1 request right now, though other priorities have come up so it will take a little bit of time...
Hope your big (little, still, I imagine) priority is doing well!
Pardon the low fidelity but I was wondering what you thought of a layout like the attached for 'moar chordz plez!/compose' mode. The shape is all wrong but hopefully you get the idea: it should be natural for curved finger ends.
I'm imagining:
I haven't really reviewed the previous discussions again so I'm sure this is lacking. I'm supposed to be doing wireframes for work right now so was in the mode.
Anyway, this morning's two cents.
No problem! :-) Thanks for listening! :-) Guitarism is still the best! :-)
@syrupcore Nice design!
@StormJH1 @Audiojunkie - would this kind of layout give you what you're looking for?
I'll refrain from making comments till I hear from the rest of you guys on where this stands between 'kinda maybe interesting' to 'exactly what I'm looking for'
I'm not sure if I like it or not... While it does offer more options, it doesn't necessarily make things any easier. I don't think having to hold down a button constantly to get a particular set of chords is a good idea. That would mean that I would have to constantly be dealing with two buttons at the same time instead of one. If you add muting to it, that gets quite busy. I think doubling the number of available chords from six to twelve would be better. A shift button that you push (not hold) to change the selected key could add variation. I just really like the way WI guitar had their layout, and I think we should keep things as simple and as uncomplicated as possible, while adding as much as we can to the realism and playability of Guitarism.
http://static.kvraudio.com/i/b/wi_guitar_ipad.jpg
Having the above layout and having the ability to choose our own chords would be great. Since we can already choose our own chords, we are already halfway there! :-)
Added note: If you look at the add9, sus4, 7, and maj7 keys, you will notice that they are the furthest away from the fingers, so that they can be toggled without getting in the way of the other chords (assuming you are not actually holding and trying to play the ipad like a guitar). In syrupcore's suggested design, these buttons would get in the way and create possibilities for accidental note changes at the wrong time.
One thing that I think could be beneficial, if done right, could be the ergonomic angling of the keys that syrupcore did. That could make playing possibly easier. :-)
To be clear, the letters/chords in my visual masterpiece would be a variety of chords, not just root keys (so a collection of Major, Minor, 7th... appropriate for the key, based on a preset or user defined in real time). For the most part, it would be just like Guitarism is now: one finger on the left. The shift buttons are only to trigger momentary variations for the times when you want a chord outside of the current set.
Part of what I was going for here was a way to get at a whole lot of chords without having it look like an accordion.
Besides, it's a guitar—it's normally a 5 finger operation! Two ain't bad.
@syrupcore said:
I don't mind lots of chords being available on the screen, because it makes it really easy to do lots of hammer-on hammer off stuff in a way that feels comfortable to me. :-) The thing to remember though, is that even though it "sounds" like a guitar, it isn't a guitar. It is a completely new instrument that is played almost nothing like a real guitar. :-) I'm not opposed to trying new methods and layouts, as long as it keeps things as easy as possible, while offering as much tonal variance as possible. Speaking of new methods and layouts, I'd love some kind of string bend/whammy bar setup if it works really well and doesn't get in the way. :-)
looks like a hornets nest, wouldn't it be better to finish the midi options first.. ouch ouch ouch don't hit me
@kobamoto True. The @syrupcore layout and the WI Guitar layout are very similar except WI has more primary chord buttons, which is probably a good thing. So if I added MIDI In you could just use WI as the controller and it'd mostly achieve what people are asking about. Since there are plenty of good sample packs out there (SampleTank, ThumbJam, GarageBand etc), the question becomes why aren't people just doing that today. @Audiojunkie?
One issue with MIDI In to guitarism is that it'd end up overriding a lot of the internal secret sauce that makes guitarism smooth. Wonder if this is what's missing.
The midi doesn't work well in WI Guitar. Besides, I'd rather , just use Guitarism--the best Guitar app on the ipad! :-)
@Rhism said:
The other exception is that with the WI Guitar layout there is no way to play a B minor without stopping the song you're writing and going into some sort of setup mode—which is exactly the problem I was riffing to solve. Though perhaps you can set what the buttons along the top are in the app? Because similarly, there's no way to play a Badd9 in my layout.
I really like where the #/b are positioned (good for your thumb) but don't like where the chord adjusters are; seems like you'd need to switch your primary chord finger or put your hand in awkward positions.
I think the lines are getting blurred between compose mode and an extended live play mode where you have access to more chords than normal. All you really need in compose mode is a quick and easy way to change the asigned chord for any of the buttons without leaving the main screen, so you can fiddle around with different ideas and end up with the buttons set up with the chords you settled on. You wouldn't be using it as a live play mode. All you really need for the compose mode is a couple of selection wheels in the large space near the buttons, one for the 12 chord roots and another for the chord type. Whenever these are changed by the user, they would update the chord assigned to the currently selected button.
Extended play mode, on the other hand, runs the risk of being far more difficult, the challenge being to keep it really simple to play while still giving access to as many chord types on as many roots as possible. Currently, there are 18 chords available, which is quite a few for a single song, even quite a complex song, and possibly enough for an entire set of simpler ones, so I'm not convinced that more are necessary, but it would be fairly easy to add another 9 buttons (3 plus shift right and shift left) and it could even work in concert with compose mode, as there would still be room for those chord selection wheels. I would hesitate to introduce a completely different figering scheme just to access more chords, as I think 27 chords without radical change would be plenty for most situations where you already know what chords will be needed.
How you would deal with these changes on an iPhone is another matter...
well thought PaulB workflow is king
I am a fan of WI Guitar and have been looking for a replacement for a long time since it seems to be abandoned. I own most of the guitar/strum simulators on the app store that are worth mentioning and quite a few that should never again be spoken of. Guitarism has risen to the top of my list. But I still find myself wanting to use WI Guitar... Even though it is lacking in modern features to the point of being sad. I really wish I could smash qualities of these two Apps together into a single instrument that would satisfy all my needs. So, I came here trying to see if I was just missing something about Guitarism. Currently I am on page 5 of the thread and I have discovered one thing for sure... I respect Rhism for being involved with users and the work he is doing with gutirism. So even if it just isn't "the one" for me in the end, I have decided to invest in the remaining IAPs to support it. In a few weeks when I get done with this novel of a thread perhaps I can intelligently plead my case for some of the things I would like to see in the app. Thanks Rhism.
@murdockscott Thanks for the support and kind words - I certainly don't want the length of this thread to be a barrier to conversation, please feel free to say what's on your mind before you finish reading this novel!
Sorry to keep you hanging for so long I really wanted to make strong arguments for the features I would like to see as I think they may go aginst some of your stated goals for the app. It could be that Guitarism is just not right for me (not that anything is) and that's unfortunate but OK. Instead of getting my thoughts together about what I want from an app like this I have spent the last several weeks actually learning ukulele and mandolin. Still I wanted to drop by and give you the short story...
Personally I am not fond of the samples. Sorry to say it, but the included soundest is just not what I want from an acoustic. Now, mind you, I am supper picky. So please don't take that personally. One of the reasons I keep going back to the WI Guitar is because it sonicly inspires me. Offering different sample sets (at a price of course) may be a way to satisfy people like me. Or for long time sampling vets like myself, you could give us the option to load /build our own sample sets similar to the functionality of thumbjam. (I understand that is a lot to ask). I have been using the midi to trigger samples from sampletank which has a selection of acoustic guitars closer to what I am look for, however those samples are noisy as all get out! And of course I loose nice things like string noise.
If possible, I would really like to map velocity to the position on the string as an option. This is the other thing that I find compelling about WI Guitar and many other apps on the App Store for that matter. I know a lot of people love to compress the crud out of acoustic guitars, but I can't get into playing without more dynamics. I am looking to play with more expression. The tone change that you currently have across the string is just not as useful to me.
More chord triggers? I think I understand how the current system evolved, and I think it's interesting. However, I use the app almost exclusively on my iPad and have plenty of real estate to support additional keys/triggers. I would personally find that extremely helpfully with the way I intend to use it.
Crud, I ended up writing a book after all... Sorry for the long post. Thank you for taking time to consider my thoughts. I hope you find some of them useful.
Doc.
Hey @murdockscott no worries about the delay, nothing like learning new instruments!
I'm a big fan of WI Guitar - it does what it does really well, and it's true that Guitarism was designed for a different purpose. But I want to explore some of these thoughts of yours because I think there's room for them.
Samples: this is one of those subjective things - one sample set is never going to please everyone, and MIDI only goes so far. Have you tried tweaking the EQ settings to get the sound closer to what you want? The default sound is pretty bright and I suspect you want a more warm, full-bodied sound. I'd definitely like to offer more EQ presets for the acoustic to have more range on that end. Additional sample sets or "make your own" functionality would be super-cool but takes a lot more time and not sure how many would use it. I'm super-picky on samples and always find myself spending many hours on perfecting them, which is why I'm nervous about going that route...
Velocity: this is something I'd like to add. It definitely adds a lot of value to the level of expression you can get from the instrument. Will be exploring stuff like this once I've added custom chords and MIDI In.
More chords: This is more of a fundamental "design purpose" thing - the current app is built for live play and more chord boxes is incompatible with that. I've been contemplating a "Guitarism Composer" which would be designed with more chords in mind, and the ability to add modifiers on the fly. That'd be closer in design to how WI does it, or also the original OMGuitar. But I think I'd work on Lead Guitarism and Bass Guitarism before that.
@Rhism said:
@syrupcore You want Guiarism Composer before Lead Guitarism?
Guitarism Composer will be interesting but not revolutionary. WI Guitar, OMGuitar v1 and Chordion all have explored this ground.
Lead Guitarism would be a very new and interesting touch interface for playing melodies from anything else out there... 's all I'm sayin' till it happens...
Yeah, I hear you. I just like Guitarism more than the others so I'm interested in seeing those features there, previously explored or not.
And, yes; I'd prefer more/quicker-to-change chords over Lead Guitarism but, I'm not really that interested in lead guitar, generally.
But whatever. Follow your muse man. That's our best shot of getting more awesome out of you.
+1 I mirror the comments of the others, and would prefer a Guitarism Composer before a lead or bass guitarism. I have a lot of songs that I can't play live because they use more chords than are available on the screen. If a Guitarism Composer version is the only way I can get it, then I vote for that one first--even if I'm likely to use it as much for live work as for composing. :-)