Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
A bit oil into the fire.....
While i think of course it´s all a bit dramatized, there is also a bit truth in it:
Maybe Behringer brings a Zeeon hardware clone out soon.
Congratulations. 18 copies in one day of a single product in a single market is really excellent. That's what I usually see a week after release. So for something that was released a few months ago, that's a great result (in fact, being in the top-200 weeks after release is quite exceptional, let alone being in the top-5)!
This topic pops up every couple of months. It's just capitalism -- not a lot of dollars out there for music apps, lots of people perfectly capable of writing them, and there are only going to be a handful of big-hit mass market winners. Kickstarters, investors, etc. -- not really going to change things. I don't see subscription models doing anything either.
I'm doing this for fun, focusing on stuff that I personally want, and not so much concerned about what might sell. A little bit of income is nice, but it's not anywhere close to replacing my real job. If I wasn't writing apps, I'd spend my spare time writing music, and trust me, absolutely no one would want me doing that.
That said, my next app -- everyone is going to want it, and this time for sure, I'm going to get filthy stinking rich!
Hopefully Apple won’t undermine you this time. I appreciate your apps and was using Apollo quite a bit this week.
I love bargains. I’m essentially a very cheap person, so you’ll get no shame from me.
Thinking more about this ... tip jar would be nice but seems like begging. IAPs are cool and combined with rising prices (that would seem to be inevitable to me) would help.
But, I am surprised how small this market is. I imagine that in order to earn a decent living creating and coding for us folk, the prices would need to go wayyyyyy up which would equate to fewer sales.
OK - here’s another view that has only just occurred to me. Maybe iOS music development being at just above the passionate hobby level is something that actually fuels the creative, innovative, and really ‘customer friendly’ apps?
What I mean by that is the better known desktop names tend to disappoint as they make business decisions over creative decisions. E.g. AmpifyNovation not allowing preset saving/midi out, etc, PropellorHeads dumbing down Reason for the potential iPhone market, Korg being Korg, etc. That kind of stuff. (SugarBytes and Moog are welcome exceptions here). Other desktop names like Blamsoft and DDMF appear to have tested the waters on iOS and seem to have now stepped away.
So then we have our tier one iOS devs who we know and love - they make the AUv3 plugins that look great, sound great, and fill a gap. I hope they turn a small profit. But we also have our creative labour’s of love that bring a unique voice to iOS. The developer may still be learning to code, or having trouble with the AU format, or need a bit of help with design, but they still are able to release a gem of an app. I’m not going to name these for fear of offending anyone but I have a few in mind. At least the barrier to entry to release an iOS app is low enough to still allow for these lesser polished individual apps. I don’t expect them to make much money but I’m sure glad they exist.
One thing I’m interested to know is if a developer sees a jump in sales when upgrading an app to AUv3? It would be great to hear from SugarBytes, Iceworks, Living Memory, Virsyn, etc on this. Or comparing DRC to before and after AU sales once it gets upgraded. I really hope they get a sales boost for their efforts.
Lets just take down all the worlds desktop computers and force everyone into ios 😂
Then the great devs who pioneered this will be the kings 🙏
lol playing...
Honestly I think if someone made a killer album on iOS that got in the spotlight, or if a big name producer was promoting ios as the best way to make music, then it would increase quite a bit...
Unfortunately the desktop still rules, and hardware will always have a place as well...
Ios needs a front runner that can reach the masses and prove its capability
We Need to find someone big and get them to expose ios and all these great apps
Thank you.
That's the highest we've been ranked in awhile. Mainly, hoping to let people know that someone can have a top 5 app in the app store by only selling about 15 copies. (In case people think we're selling millions of apps).
There have been many days when Digital D1 has sold zero copies in Europe, and maybe 1 copy in the USA if we're lucky. I've done the math on the man hours, and, certainly could make more working at McDonald's. But, this is a heck of a lot more fun.
For the original post, crowd funding software would likely backfire, if only because it is very difficult for even good software engineers to correctly estimate how long it takes building a piece of software to completion, and debugging. It isn't usually possible to go back on a crowdfunding campaign, and ask for more money from the backers, to finish the software. What happens if the funding runs out? Either the programmer works for free, or it gets shelved- neither are happy endings, in a very common scenario.
One thing to do to support many developers is to buy some IAP...
They get some cash and you gets some nice added soundbanks or functionalities for your money...
I have bought a lot from both BM3 and Nanostudio 2 - well worth every penny...
But, there’s one little thing that’s bothering me and other users on iOS, and, that is this “you never know when your favorite app will disappear from Appstore”...
As long as the developer pays the annual cash to renew their membership in the developer area on Apple we usually have our apps there to restore when we upgrade to new devices, but, in the end we will never ever be sure that this is true when you stand there with your empty new device...
I really miss a lot of nice apps from the past, not only Alchemy Synth...
And now Propellerheads will take down Figure from Appstore in the middle of januari 2019... Sad...
It’s much easier on desktop (Win or Mac) to backup and restore your precious software, in that department Apple must improve things on iOS...
I know I'm annoying, but yeah, this... people with skill sets that resemble those of the moon rocket designers are paid like trash disposal workers. Really strange. Seems like the laws of the free market don't always work.
Speaking of free: I know many will hate me for it, but I also think that the whole Free Software thing plays a part in this. I mean, if there's a market where a bunch of manufacturers simply give away high-quality products for free, that won't exactly INCREASE price levels
(full disclosure: when I start my own country, free software will be illegal there!
)
I understand the good intentions of the thread creator but I find it rather weird to be discussing people's private affairs. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable if my finances were openly discussed, for sure.
It would probably be more appropriate to talk of the app market, pricing etc. The who bought what with what money feels a bit personal.
The whole serious app pricing will have to go up to match development costs....end of the story. All of the crowd funding measures are only temporary at best. It will buy Christmas but not the whole year.
Just my 5p.
Not, sad, not, sick, it doesn’t equate, a restaurant meal and creation of software. Every meal is unique and requires time to make every individual one, I don’t think developers create a unique version of an app for each customer?
Now that would be a great next thing. Each copy of an app could have some randomization in the code so every user get a "unique" tool
+1. It seems to crop every couple of months - someone will start a thread saying dev's don't get paid enough, and everyone will agree, the devs will tell us how little money they're making and we'll all feel a bit shit about it.
It's a pointless exercise since it's preaching to the converted. Most of us on here have spent hundreds/thousands of pounds on apps, and will do for many years to come. We pay whatever the price is at the time, and many of us promote or big-up apps and devs as a thank you. We have a thing called 'instabuy' on here for some devs, and the majority here will buy their work on release.
Aside from sending them large amounts of extra cash, which most of us don't have, there's bugger all we can do about it except feel bad. However, I've got a music based Twitter account - and one of the things I like to do is share developers tweets. I've got over 6,000 followers - more than a lot of of the devs I retweet, so I like to think I'm helping in a very small way with a bit of free promo for them. Out of the 15 developers I've followed and retweeted, none have retweeted or even liked any of my posts. In fact, only 1 out of those 15 has followed me back (thank you Intua). I could share these even more (sometimes I do) - I've got around 2 million followers in other accounts.
I've just done my tax return (Christmas holiday treat - yeah!), and for the second year running my business has suffered courtesy of large web and software companies sweeping up all the work, small web business like mine are getting shut out of the market. So I understand prefectly what independent, self-employed developers are up against.
One of the very few bits of pleasure I have in my life is buying apps and making silly noises with them - they're nicely priced so skint buggers like me can afford them, and I buy a few extra in tha sales. But I can do without having extra guilt piled on top of me for doing this, so please stop the shaming.
Thanks for this perspective. It’s really a pickle of a situation. Truth be told — very few of us will ever get paid what is fair.
Still, the numbers somehow have to add up. "Average" software development is already a very rare skill set, billed at, say, $50 minimum per hour. "Advanced" niche software development, like audio software, is billed upwards of $100 per hour. A piece like, say, NS2, takes years to develop. Let's estimate just 5 hours average per workday, and just 3 years. That's 150 weeks x 25 hours x $100 = $375,000. Just to put the stuff people use here into perspective
yeah - no one should be feeling guilty. Would it be nice if we could earn a living just making apps? - yeah it would be but that's not the way it works - and I think in some ways it is way cooler that making music is accessible now. If I look at what I have now to make music with compared to what was around when I was a teenager first being interested in making music, with nothing in the way of synths or recording equipment in any way accessible it is amazing.
If I wanted people to take one message away from this thread - it is that there is a vibrant "scene" around iOS music making and for people to want to spread the word - not to feel bad because you can't make a living solely making iOS music apps (iOS will eventually only be one strand of Pagefall's offerings )
Several App devs have chimed in this thread to contribute factual accounts of the state of biz so apparently they don’t feel intruded upon or uncomfy with it. Besides, I don’t see anything in this thread that would give anyone any knowledge of anyone’s personal finances.
For clarity, the OP was about very specific questions concerning IF seeking outside funding was a thing or opportunity.
Having large enough budgets for MARKETING and branding expenditures was more my aim and point of discussion...which...I still think is the missing part of the discussion.
That it went different directions is how things go on a forum.
Finally, no one is forced to read or comment on anything on this site.
In conclusion, I greatly appreciate the contributions to the discussion. Especially those devs with sobering accounts of the state of things.
I still feel there are things Devs can do to increase sales but I believe it will take partnerships or larger budgets for Marketing and Branding...not just budgets for Development. Marketing and Branding (Reach) budget is just as essential as the actual code
Tree falls in a forest and no one knows...tree didn’t fall.
We have examples...Fallon gave Loopy reach and Michael said it was transformational. FL and BlocWave packs sell because Novation and Imageline’s brands have reach...
Blocswave can be at the bottom of the App List but if they’re going platinum on IAPs who cares about charts?
Tech 9 the rapper never appears on any charts and he’s probably richer than every mainstream artist on the charts. He’s 100% indie...understands marketing at a very high level. Reach.
Kylie Jenner can sell lip filler to the tune of a billion because she has reach.
App Devs could sell their apps if they have reach. Currently they don’t.
When’s the last “cool” “sexy” consistent App ad campaign you’ve ever seen? Mmmhmmm.
Depends on country
) I'm senior developer, system architect, with 20 years of experience but i can just dream about more than $20/hour in my country ...
Do/Can you canvass for work in the US?
I´m now happy that i´m not smart enough to be a developer
Does that count? 
What's your Twitter account? I'll follow you.
Ok. So 12k downloads is what Matt needs to hit that mark. How will 12,000 people find out about NS2?
The issue comes back to Reach.
While we at social networks....as much as i personally avoid and hate them, they are so important these days.
If you go viral on you-tube.....you are a winner.....or so.
Bingo. Same goes for IG. There are those, major and indie alike, that understand how to go viral without luck. It’s a specialized and VERY essential skill today.
Like coding.
@levitated is the one I use for music stuff, think I retweeted one of yours yesterday.
It’s worth checking your notifications in the Twitter UI, you can see who’s liking or promoting your tweets.
Note that Apple takes 30% of App sales for providing the App Store service etc., so it's actually a bit more. Also, it took Matt about 5 years, and somehow I got the impression that he probably worked more than 5 hours a day
Sorry yeah... I should have said "average western salaries"... but, we are now globalized and all that!
Could look for freelance work "overseas"? On the other hand, I guess cost of living is also much lower in your country, so it will somehow neutralize...
Yep. I mean i personally don´t use facebook, twitter and whatever else is there but you-tube is my goto for everything i want to explore. There are developers and companies which outputs every fe days, weeks or months little tutorials, tips how use their tools in combination wit other things and so on. This bound me to some of them and i feel much more valued as well....just saying. I know it´s hard to do without a marketing guy maybe and/or payed tutorials from people like Dan Worrall but this is what i miss about a lot iOS apps.