OT: Positive advice for dealing with Covid-19 (no politics or complaints about governance please)

Tones4Christ

Agree. I pray and hope all you guys and your families are safe and we can get through this as the human family.

@knewspeak said:
It’s stating the obvious but when it arrives, keep in touch on this forum, so we may learn, support and also help to cheer one another up through the bad times.

knewspeak

@Tones4Christ said:
Agree. I pray and hope all you guys and your families are safe and we can get through this as the human family.

@knewspeak said:
It’s stating the obvious but when it arrives, keep in touch on this forum, so we may learn, support and also help to cheer one another up through the bad times.

You’re a good heart, take care of yourself too.

maxwellhouser

@u0421793 said:
If I might posit a point or two.

Across the world different countries, nation states and cultures differ, this has been studied, theories formed, and I’ve even taught them at university level. If anyone is familiar with Hofstede’s work on Cultural Dimensions, that’s the sort of thing I imply. Among the measurable dimensions in his schema are: individualism-collectivism; uncertainty avoidance; power distance (strength of social hierarchy) and a few more.

What China did worked for China, where the ruling power can basically say to the people “this is what we’re going to be doing” and it happens. Some people have been pointing to the human-rights related bruising, etc, but everyone can agree it works. Could all countries do that? No.

The UK is far more individualist, the Americans even more so, I believe, and European countries are scattered along the individualist side of the continuum, very few are as collectivist as China, and for example Japan where the notion of a salaryman as a job for life is a present (though somewhat dated) ethos, where you give all to the company and in return when you get old and unproductive, it will look after you. This doesn’t work here in the west, where companies spit you out readily. America seems to not trust their government at all, we in the UK sort of do, in that we definitely rely on it to make things better (“my toilet is broken, I’ve written to the council asking them where I stand”, etc). We’re not as individualist as the Americans but we’re on the scale. We don’t have survivalists, for example, it’s too much bother.

If a western nation-state were to begin the proceedings by clamping down and saying “we’re going to do these measures, and that’s what’s going to happen, you have no choice”, there’d be considerable revolt from the populace, ranging from grudging resistance “who do you think you are, you can’t tell us what to do” to armed survivalists actually ganging up and fighting back against police and military enforcement of policy, in other words, actively resisting what is the obvious best practice thing to do.

How do you handle this nuisance individualism, then?

You express what will happen if things get really really worse. You point out that things aren’t at that stage yet. But if they do get to that stage, this is what we’ll all be doing. But we’re not at that stage yet.

Intelligent organisations and people will, of their own volition, coming to their own conclusion, making their own individual minds up, decide not to wait, we’re going to do all those things now, and we thought of it. We’re not going to wait for the government, we’re taking the action that the government is too slow to do.

When the governments then enforce the policies and behaviours, everyone, most everyone, the smart lot, will simply exclaim “but we’ve been doing that for ages, we decided to do that, it’s correct that we should all now be forced to do that, it’s the correct thing to do, and we decided to do it ourselves before it became the law”.

If you don’t stage things out like that, you get resistance, and this will only slow the process down at a point where you really can’t tolerate any such impedance and lack of forward motion. If we in the UK did what China did, we’d fail to do it and by the time we got sufficient traction, it’d be too late, far slower than what’s actually happening now. I hate to say it, but Boris has, accidentally or not, managed to get this exactly correct.

This is a great post!

knewspeak

Advice when shopping, if you want to be super careful, try to stay away from frozen food, extreme cold keeps virus in stasis, it doesn’t kill them.

mister_rz

Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Hmtx

I’m by no means in a panic, but I’ll go ahead and say: STAY HOME if you are in any city in America.

Evidence is mounting that this has been poorly managed in the USA, and is likely already far more widespread than we are aware. So don’t wait for our government to tell us next week what we needed to start doing last week. Thats all. Best of luck to us all.

knewspeak

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Thanks for posting, nice to hear a good outcome and one of circumstances close to home.

AudioGus

@Hmtx said:
I’m by no means in a panic, but I’ll go ahead and say: STAY HOME if you are in any city in America.

Evidence is mounting that this has been poorly managed in the USA, and is likely already far more widespread than we are aware. So don’t wait for our government to tell us next week what we needed to start doing last week. Thats all. Best of luck to us all.

I am a bit in this headspace right now. I work in a building that has a US Consulate and a major insurance company and a few buildings in town have already been closed down. So I am going to evac my work computer this weekend and hunker down at home for the long term. Silver lining is maybe it will stick and be a boost for my productivity not having a 48 hour a month commute to deal with anymore.

espiegel123

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

knewspeak

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

Strange advice, a virus can only remain active in most temperate conditions for a few hours, freezing them, well people buried in frozen places during the 1918 flu pandemic, still have viable strains of the virus.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

knewspeak

@Max23 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

if food is cooked and you don't eat with your fingers you should be safe.

Indeed but don’t forget the virus may be still viable in your freezer on the packaging.

espiegel123

@knewspeak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

Strange advice, a virus can only remain active in most temperate conditions for a few hours, freezing them, well people buried in frozen places during the 1918 flu pandemic, still have viable strains of the virus.

The virus is all around us on surfaces. The virus isn't going to jump off a package (they can't) into your eyes or nose. You do the same thing that you do with any possibly contaminated surface. You should be assuming all the packaging you come into contact with may have virus on it.

I really think that people should check recommended best-practices before posting advice. This topic is actually covered on a number of sites about what to do to minimize exposure.

espiegel123

@knewspeak said:

@Max23 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

if food is cooked and you don't eat with your fingers you should be safe.

Indeed but don’t forget the virus may be still viable in your freezer on the packaging.

That is why you wash your hands.

knewspeak

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@Max23 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

if food is cooked and you don't eat with your fingers you should be safe.

Indeed but don’t forget the virus may be still viable in your freezer on the packaging.

That is why you wash your hands.

All that washing, make sure your skin doesn’t dry out and crack.

espiegel123

@knewspeak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@Max23 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

if food is cooked and you don't eat with your fingers you should be safe.

Indeed but don’t forget the virus may be still viable in your freezer on the packaging.

That is why you wash your hands.

All that washing, make sure your skin doesn’t dry out and crack.

I guess that is a joke? I am not sure. Please don't discourage people from the known best practices.

jameslondon74

@robosardine said:
What are people doing at bank machines, and those touchscreen fast food menus etc? I mentioned this already for the supermarket, but it’s surprising how often you come across communal touchscreens, and I think it’s well established that they harbour germs. I always carry a touchscreen pen in a little holster now... you can also still was your hands at the first opportunity. If nothing else it helps me feel reassured.

I used my pinky today! And washed it when I got home.

Philandering_Bastard

@supadom said:

@Paul16 said:

@Philandering_Bastard said:

@McD said:

@kobamoto said:
and the hikikomori shall inherit the earth...

I was taught not to immanentize the eschaton. It leads to bad decision making on assumptions.

Lordy. An Eric Voegelin acolyte here on the Audiobus forum. Greetings!

but invariably, if one doesn’t ’immanentize’ personally, there will always be someone else along to do it for you

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/425m-in-world-bank-catastrophe-bonds-set-to-default-if-coronavirus-declared-a-pandemic-by-june?fbclid=IwAR1VMmC4FxgABF1Orsn13WO5vIwfqNtTftfrBNER7zvH7IAv2ApBImrfHk0

The biggest gambler of all is in charge of the US now. Who knows what’s crossing his mind? Maybe letting the system crash has some potential for personal gains? If so, why not be reckless with Covid and let it in? > @MonzoPro said:

@Paul16 said:
boost your gut biome

+1. Varied diet, lots of fibre. I also take vitamin C. Not for the virus, but to help keep colds at bay, which would take up bodily resources when I might need them for virus fighting.

Might work, might not, but no harm in trying.

I also find getting pissed every night helps my stress levels.

Sourkraut DIY is supposed to be super good for that. I’ve seen my mother making it hundreds of times, easy enough for anyone...and cheap!

Can confirm. Just be careful, next thing you know you’ll get a bad case of the Polka.

AudioGus

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/don-t-panic-says-u-s-woman-who-recovered-from-coronavirus-1.4849897

[Deleted User]

@knewspeak said:
Advice when shopping, if you want to be super careful, try to stay away from frozen food, extreme cold keeps virus in stasis, it doesn’t kill them.

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@Max23 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@mister_rz said:
Been reading a few articles from people who have caught covid-19, one man who was in his 60’s and had a few underlying illnesses, which made him more susceptible to complications, said his Nebuliser really helped when he was having breathing difficulties, he dealt with his illness at home, as he wasn’t aware of what he had.

Yes, the vast majority of cases will be cured with home care alone even in risk groups. But that shouldn't make us complacent.

@knewspeak: the freezer section isn't going to be significantly more dangerous even though freezing doesn't kill viruses. We should remember that with all packaging there is possible exposure to the virus via your hands and so should wash hands after handling it and before eating. I am not seeing public health experts telling people to avoid frozen food sections. In fact, if you search you will find public health information resources calming fears such as that.

if food is cooked and you don't eat with your fingers you should be safe.

Indeed but don’t forget the virus may be still viable in your freezer on the packaging.

That is why you wash your hands.

All that washing, make sure your skin doesn’t dry out and crack.

I guess that is a joke? I am not sure. Please don't discourage people from the known best practices.

That can be a real concern especially in dry climates. If your hands crack, the virus can enter your body through them. If you use lotion after washing your hands it can prevent cracking.

supadom

@AudioGus said:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/don-t-panic-says-u-s-woman-who-recovered-from-coronavirus-1.4849897

‘Don’t panic' echoed the 1000 dead....’paradise does exist!’

[Deleted User]

Interview with an infectious disease expert about Covid-19

robosardine

Ah... right, some harsh reality. This guy seems to know what he is talking about. What I take from what he is saying is- there is not a lot you can do to avoid this. It’s mainly transferred through the air and there is a high probability you will be near someone at some time who has it and can easily pass it on to you by simply breathing. It’s mainly going to come down to your body’s own ability to deal with it- and there are clear identifiable risk factors- which are obesity, high blood pressure, smoking and older age. Also this is not going away anytime soon. Also no health services are suitably equipped to care for the high number of expected critical cases.

espiegel123

People; enough with the "there's nothing we can do" talk.

Read and re-read:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

We the people can slow this thing down if we act not if we throw up our hands.

For those in the U.S. trying to get a sense of experts current thinking, here is a daunting summary of a panel on March 10 at a major research hospital. It includes some good advice: stock up on your prescriptions to reduce the impact of sporadic pipelines.

https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/notes-from-ucsf-expert-panel-march-10-dr-jordan-shlain-m-d-/

If anyone isn't taking action and doing what they can now, don't wait. This isn't blowing over.

knewspeak

@robosardine said:
Ah... right, some harsh reality. This guy seems to know what he is talking about. What I take from what he is saying is- there is not a lot you can do to avoid this. It’s mainly transferred through the air and there is a high probability you will be near someone at some time who has it and can easily pass it on to you by simply breathing. It’s mainly going to come down to your body’s own ability to deal with it- and there are clear identifiable risk factors- which are obesity, high blood pressure, smoking and older age. Also this is not going away anytime soon. Also no health services are suitably equipped to care for the high number of expected critical cases.

Yes, it’s what I’ve been saying, you cannot stop it, cannot, but on an individual level, you have to risk assess your normal routines and make changes to them to lessen your chance of getting infected, this will hopefully stagger the progression of the disease whilst trying to protect the most vulnerable in society and valuable medical services.

espiegel123

@knewspeak said:

@robosardine said:
Ah... right, some harsh reality. This guy seems to know what he is talking about. What I take from what he is saying is- there is not a lot you can do to avoid this. It’s mainly transferred through the air and there is a high probability you will be near someone at some time who has it and can easily pass it on to you by simply breathing. It’s mainly going to come down to your body’s own ability to deal with it- and there are clear identifiable risk factors- which are obesity, high blood pressure, smoking and older age. Also this is not going away anytime soon. Also no health services are suitably equipped to care for the high number of expected critical cases.

Yes, it’s what I’ve been saying, you cannot stop it, cannot, but on an individual level, you have to risk assess your normal routines and make changes to them to lessen your chance of getting infected, this will hopefully stagger the progression of the disease whilst trying to protect the most vulnerable in society and valuable medical services.

Partly correct. A key point needs to be stated: your decision should primarily be about benefitting the community. Slowing transmission has a huge impact on lethality by giving the virus fewer opportunities to find a host.

Read this paper until you fully understand the issues raised.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

If people think primarily about themselves there is little incentive to engage in the key strategies (social distancing with good hygiene thrown in). Most people will get mild cases. The problem is that if the number of cases explodes as in Italy, hospitals can’t keep up. Slowing transmission will help hospitals manage the care. The death-rate sky rockets when they can’t.

Sorry for reposting this, but it is clear from comments I am seeing that people are unaware of some of the critical issues that will help us manage this crisis.

robosardine

Yes there has been a lot of confusion. I understand the situation much more clearly now, and the replies from @espiegel123 and @knewspeak both make sense to me. There has been a lot of confusion.

Samu

More music, this one could describe the situation in some country where people are starting to panic...

Paul16

knewspeak

My seven year old boy, isn’t well. Time for isolation.