OT: Positive advice for dealing with Covid-19 (no politics or complaints about governance please)

robosardine

@MonzoPro said:

@LinearLineman said:
Hey guys, don’t forget to clip your fingernails short!
Seems I spend a lot of time with minutiae lately...and they do get under my nails.

Yeah I did that a couple of weeks ago - normally they're long for guitar playing.

I’ve just looked out my old bottle of Rock Tips to help me through the pain of getting started with the guitar again.

espiegel123

@LinearLineman said:
Hey guys, don’t forget to clip your fingernails short!
Seems I spend a lot of time with minutiae lately...and they do get under my nails.

Btw, if you follow the recommend techniques for washing your hands, the soap suds will get under your fingernails and denature the virus. There are a few steps that are there for that purpose.

JohnnyGoodyear

@robosardine said:

@MonzoPro said:

@LinearLineman said:
Hey guys, don’t forget to clip your fingernails short!
Seems I spend a lot of time with minutiae lately...and they do get under my nails.

Yeah I did that a couple of weeks ago - normally they're long for guitar playing.

I’ve just looked out my old bottle of Rock Tips to help me through the pain of getting started with the guitar again.

I'm about to do the same. Wish I could jump forward a dedicated month (like so many things )

denx

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@AudioGus said:

@Max23 said:

@AudioGus said:
There is some blood type chatter going on regarding this. Could be hellah bunk of course but any thoughts/decent links from the smart folks here?

forget it.
its just rumors.

What about astrological signs?

I do think we introverts seem to be doing a bit better than most

Nice one 😁

espiegel123

@robosardine said:

@espiegel123 said:

@robosardine said:

@espiegel123 said:

@robosardine said:
Interesting to read about Italy above.

Does anyone know- what is the actual number of deaths to date - not projected or expected - theorised or risk assessed (specific to any other country or all countries) for people who have died with the Corona Virus but who had NO underlying predisposing conditions or contra indications.

There are a few sites with reliable data. Keep in mind that what "cases" means is positive tests -- if you read the Medium article I linked to earlier, you will also know that how positive tests correlates to actual cases is highly variable and depends on how widespread testing is. We know that in the U.S. that there are FAR more actual cases than positive tests because of how little testing we have had.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The worldometers site now seems to have pretty accurate figures -- it uses some a.i. to pull the data from public sites. There were some glitches early that seem to have been worked out and the numbers seem to tally with the Johns Hopkins site.

On the worldometers site, you can also look at the stats (with various graphic representations) by country.

I appreciate your response. I have followed your links.
What I am actually looking for at the moment (which I should have been clearer about) is for people to provide an actual number as far as their understanding allows - approximate or specific - for all countries or a specific one- which shows their interpretation as to what the current recorded number of deaths are due to the Corona virus where there were none of the well documented comorbidity factors present.

I am trying to gauge what the understanding is on an individual basis given the information available.

That data is VERY noisy. One of the medical journals just released a draft of a paper indicating that in the U.S. a significantly higher percentage of the hospitalizations in the U.s. are 20-40 than was the case in China.

I haven't seen a detailed analysis of mortality and associated co-morbidities.

Thank you. I am glad none of the hospital admissions you mentioned as it turned out resulted in fatalities.

There are more and more reports from doctors in the U.S. and U.K. describing otherwise healthy patients from 20 to 50 with no known morbidities going rapidly from a little under the weather to near death or dying. This virus is not only a danger to unhealthy people.

espiegel123

Interesting article (that was recommended by physician/writer Atul Gawande) about benefits of wearing masks (even if they aren't medical masks):

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/19/opinion/guidance-against-wearing-masks-coronavirus-is-wrong-you-should-cover-your-face/

p.s. In most of the country right now, medical professionals need all the "real" masks they can get. So, we shouldn't be buying them.

McD

@espiegel123 said:
Reports describing otherwise healthy patients 20-50 year olds with no known morbidities going rapidly from a little under the weather to near death or dying. This virus is not only a danger to unhealthy people.

Now it sounds like the "Wheel of Fortune" virus to go along with the "Wheel of Viruses" that nature spins constantly. It's like thinking about asteroid deaths with incoming fields daily.

AudioGus

45 minute test turnaround time...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/21/politics/fda-coronavirus-test/index.html

A lot better than 2-3 days.

JohnnyGoodyear

@espiegel123 said:

@robosardine said:

@espiegel123 said:

@robosardine said:

@espiegel123 said:

@robosardine said:
Interesting to read about Italy above.

Does anyone know- what is the actual number of deaths to date - not projected or expected - theorised or risk assessed (specific to any other country or all countries) for people who have died with the Corona Virus but who had NO underlying predisposing conditions or contra indications.

There are a few sites with reliable data. Keep in mind that what "cases" means is positive tests -- if you read the Medium article I linked to earlier, you will also know that how positive tests correlates to actual cases is highly variable and depends on how widespread testing is. We know that in the U.S. that there are FAR more actual cases than positive tests because of how little testing we have had.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The worldometers site now seems to have pretty accurate figures -- it uses some a.i. to pull the data from public sites. There were some glitches early that seem to have been worked out and the numbers seem to tally with the Johns Hopkins site.

On the worldometers site, you can also look at the stats (with various graphic representations) by country.

I appreciate your response. I have followed your links.
What I am actually looking for at the moment (which I should have been clearer about) is for people to provide an actual number as far as their understanding allows - approximate or specific - for all countries or a specific one- which shows their interpretation as to what the current recorded number of deaths are due to the Corona virus where there were none of the well documented comorbidity factors present.

I am trying to gauge what the understanding is on an individual basis given the information available.

That data is VERY noisy. One of the medical journals just released a draft of a paper indicating that in the U.S. a significantly higher percentage of the hospitalizations in the U.s. are 20-40 than was the case in China.

I haven't seen a detailed analysis of mortality and associated co-morbidities.

Thank you. I am glad none of the hospital admissions you mentioned as it turned out resulted in fatalities.

There are more and more reports from doctors in the U.S. and U.K. describing otherwise healthy patients from 20 to 50 with no known morbidities going rapidly from a little under the weather to near death or dying. This virus is not only a danger to unhealthy people.

This needs to be highlighted with data/facts/case studies etc. I've already heard versions (from youngsters) which amount to 'well, they would say that wouldn't they, trying to get our attention etc'...

espiegel123

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

There are more and more reports from doctors in the U.S. and U.K. describing otherwise healthy patients from 20 to 50 with no known morbidities going rapidly from a little under the weather to near death or dying. This virus is not only a danger to unhealthy people.

This needs to be highlighted with data/facts/case studies etc. I've already heard versions (from youngsters) which amount to 'well, they would say that wouldn't they, trying to get our attention etc'...

One of the problems with the data, is that the lethality will be different at different stages of the epidemic as the hospital system breaks down. One of the reasons for many of the deaths in Italy is that due to lack of respirators, people that were old didn't even get a chance to have a respirator because they had to go to the people with the highest likelihood of recovery.

If you read the accounts by doctors treating patients in the hospital, they all have expressed how emotionally unprepared they were for what they are seeing as the progression of the illness is so different from anything that they have seen -- particularly on any scale.

So, even if older people are disproportionately at risk, the number of people in the 20-40 year old category that need urgent attention is quite high relative to common viruses.

JohnnyGoodyear

@espiegel123 said:

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

There are more and more reports from doctors in the U.S. and U.K. describing otherwise healthy patients from 20 to 50 with no known morbidities going rapidly from a little under the weather to near death or dying. This virus is not only a danger to unhealthy people.

This needs to be highlighted with data/facts/case studies etc. I've already heard versions (from youngsters) which amount to 'well, they would say that wouldn't they, trying to get our attention etc'...

One of the problems with the data, is that the lethality will be different at different stages of the epidemic as the hospital system breaks down. One of the reasons for many of the deaths in Italy is that due to lack of respirators, people that were old didn't even get a chance to have a respirator because they had to go to the people with the highest likelihood of recovery.

If you read the accounts by doctors treating patients in the hospital, they all have expressed how emotionally unprepared they were for what they are seeing as the progression of the illness is so different from anything that they have seen -- particularly on any scale.

So, even if older people are disproportionately at risk, the number of people in the 20-40 year old category that need urgent attention is quite high relative to common viruses.

I hear you and I agree. And I am grateful to you for much of your clarity and ongoing doggedness to share and explain that with us. Seriously. I think my own point was more from a PR aspect, but that is part of any game also that involves human players and in this case young uns who feel beyond calamity's reach as a result of both their innate immortality and the apparent targeting of those other generations, not them etc.

Identor

Haven't red all the comments before, but i want to state that Fear is causing Stress.
Stress is a reaction to a situation that endangers your life. It causes to increase the production of Adrenaline and Cortisol.
Adrenaline is used to escape a life threatening situation. Cortisol lowers the immune system to preserve energy for the vital systems in order to survive in the short term.
Long exposure (stress) of Cortisol causes change in blood pressure, mood change (depression), infections, diabetes, fatigue, headaches, trouble sleeping. The same goes for Adrenaline globally.
So, for your immune system its good to deal with stress.
Don't let fear control you. The Corona crisis is already here. Deal with it in a positive way. Send a postcard, letter or a mail, or make a phonecall to a relative you can't visit. Make music or pick up a hobby to sooth your mind. Don't shop like the world is going to end. When there is no bread, the are other food to replace, like rice, pasta or potatoes. No toiletpaper? My grandparents used newspapers to whipe their butts.
Live by the day and use your time to sleep well. Your health comes mostly from between the ears, and from good digestion.

A few tips to lower Cortisol levels:

-Some foods that may help to keep cortisol levels stable include:
-dark chocolate
-bananas and pears
-black or green tea
-probiotics in food such as yogurt
-probiotics in foods containing soluble fiber
-Drinking plenty of water to avoid dehydration also helps to keep cortisol levels lower.
-Fish Oil

• good sleep and in-between some naps.
• ease your mind by meditation, hobby, music etc.
• don't drink coffee at night (hmm...does it count for me too?)
• exercise

Another tip: Go outside to get some vitamine D and fresh air. There is plenty of room outside to not infect each other.

Michael

I did this:

Clueless

Nice, we have something like this in our neighborhood. So not all is bad with mankind

knewspeak

@u0421793 said:

@knewspeak said:

@InfoCheck said:

@u0421793 said:
I spent large portions of today reading this:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2018.00343/full

A very informative article especially where it talks about the behavioral changes we can do to slow down the spread of viruses. It’s clear that information gathering, sharing, and responding on all levels of community organization is vital. Viral pandemics are clearly a moving target so we’re better off if we can collectively plan for this rather than going through cycles of reaction, forgetting, and inaction until the next pandemic is upon us. The effects of other health issues in terms of those who have too little and those who eat too much was also significant. Secondary bacterial infections and resistant strains of bacteria further complicate the ability to manage these pandemics.

The discussion about how quarantines were effective to the extent they were put in place in a timely manner and remained in place long enough speaks to the need for accurate information about the spread of the virus, who’s vulnerable, and being able to have enough patience and resources to support these isolation approaches.

Unfortunately mankind has to bang it’s head on a brick wall to realise it hurts, nature, being nature, just goes about it’s symbiotic ways trying to maintain a nice balance.

?

[Deleted User]

@knewspeak said:

@u0421793 said:

@knewspeak said:

@InfoCheck said:

@u0421793 said:
I spent large portions of today reading this:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcimb.2018.00343/full

A very informative article especially where it talks about the behavioral changes we can do to slow down the spread of viruses. It’s clear that information gathering, sharing, and responding on all levels of community organization is vital. Viral pandemics are clearly a moving target so we’re better off if we can collectively plan for this rather than going through cycles of reaction, forgetting, and inaction until the next pandemic is upon us. The effects of other health issues in terms of those who have too little and those who eat too much was also significant. Secondary bacterial infections and resistant strains of bacteria further complicate the ability to manage these pandemics.

The discussion about how quarantines were effective to the extent they were put in place in a timely manner and remained in place long enough speaks to the need for accurate information about the spread of the virus, who’s vulnerable, and being able to have enough patience and resources to support these isolation approaches.

Unfortunately mankind has to bang it’s head on a brick wall to realise it hurts, nature, being nature, just goes about it’s symbiotic ways trying to maintain a nice balance.

?

People don’t like being told what to do and if they’re not convinced it’s the right thing to do, they won’t do it. Even if they’re told the risks for not complying are high, they may need to experience the bad effects before they decide to change their behavior.

In nature, if species don’t adapt to changes, they will go extinct so consequently there ends up being a lot of balance between species as they’re continually changing in response to each other. I don’t know that this balance could always be characterized as nice since there’s an abundance of predator prey relationships. By the same token, without natural predators, prey populations can grow too quickly and their density will allow disease to spread through the population or they may die of starvation due to overgrazing.

In our species, we frequently live in high densities and there’s significant mixing of populations all over the world. When there is a pandemic, our cultural constructs like economic systems, political ideologies, social norms of behavior, and distrust of other groups can significantly interfere with our ability to mount a coherent and cohesive plan of action to respond to the pandemic. It frequently takes personal experiences with death due to the pandemic before individual and collective action is taken.

There is a long history of targeting other humans as the cause of pandemics which are based upon pre-existing biases rather than the causal agent of the pandemic. Our strong social focus can block or cloud our ability to comprehend and respond to acts of nature which fall outside the scope of our personal experiences whether it’s refusing to leave our homes in an area forecast to be in the direct path of a hurricane or to comply with quarantine orders during a pandemic.

knewspeak

Yes utopia is bloody hard work.....time and time and time and time......

[Deleted User]

@Michael said:
I did this:

These sorts of neighborly approaches could be a good way to minimize the risks for everyone. If one neighbor can purchase the groceries for several people especially if they have PPE, it will reduce the exposure for everyone in the neighborhood and employees at the grocery store. People could quarantine their groceries for 3 days before using them to minimize their chances for infection. Local restaurants and retail outlets could operate upon a similar delivery model.

Unfortunately, my experience in my country has been that the air of fear and distrust has grown over the decades so much that neighbors do not know each other at all. This makes coming together during a community crisis that much more difficult.

knewspeak

@InfoCheck, check the info, connect the dots, tick, tock, lock, unlock, tick tock.

robosardine

This is a great thing @Michael I have already given my phone number to two elderly neighbours should they need help in any way.

espiegel123

@robosardine said:
This is a great thing @Michael I have already given my phone number to two elderly neighbours should they need help in any way.

Great gesture.

knewspeak

@knewspeak said:
@InfoCheck, check the info, connect the dots, tick, tock, lock, unlock, tick tock.

u0421793

https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching

Sequencer1

How you doing @Ass_Flaps_9000 ?

[Deleted User]

@Michael said:
I did this:

Yeah we did that for some of the old folks opposite, since they have no family.

[Deleted User]

I read an article today about the discrepancy in people’s symptoms. According to the article, it’s about the viral ‘load’ the infected person receives. So a health worker could pick up a big hit from several sources, which causes more serious symptoms. Whereas a brief single encounter in the street, will have a lesser effect.

This then affects the amount of shedding, and so the infection can also be higher or lower to others.

Made me feel a bit better when walking past the local dickheads that aren’t observing social distancing guidelines.

AudioGus

@Ass_Flaps_9000 said:
My best advice to you all, with story...

By the time your lungs start to bleed, you don’t even choose to give a shit or not, you become delirious. Do not isolate yourself completely. If you are concerned for someone, then YOU check on them because, they won’t check on you. Hear me!

I lay in my bed after 2 days and nights sweating it out. In the morning I was in that delirious state, my dad forced me to the hospital, x-ray, pneumonia, coughing up mouthfuls of bloody chunks... fucking not nice right!

I honestly don’t think I’d have left my bed if it was not for my father... thanks dad!

So... if you are alone, and start to feel unwell, contact someone and ask them to check in on you, NOT the other way around.

Oh jeez, sorry to hear you went through all that! I had regular old pneumonia about six years ago and not not fun. This would take it to a whole other level. Ugh, how you feeling now?

For me vanilla pneumonia was a month long fight and then another month of rebuilding/recovery.

AudioGus

@MonzoPro said:
I read an article today about the discrepancy in people’s symptoms. According to the article, it’s about the viral ‘load’ the infected person receives. So a health worker could pick up a big hit from several sources, which causes more serious symptoms. Whereas a brief single encounter in the street, will have a lesser effect.

This then affects the amount of shedding, and so the infection can also be higher or lower to others.

Made me feel a bit better when walking past the local dickheads that aren’t observing social distancing guidelines.

Yah that is how bacterial pneumonia seems to be as well. Take a big deep accidental inhale of some bad bio-yuck and you will be far worse off than those on the perimeter of the blast who also get sick.

[Deleted User]

@MonzoPro said:
I read an article today about the discrepancy in people’s symptoms. According to the article, it’s about the viral ‘load’ the infected person receives. So a health worker could pick up a big hit from several sources, which causes more serious symptoms. Whereas a brief single encounter in the street, will have a lesser effect.

This then affects the amount of shedding, and so the infection can also be higher or lower to others.

Made me feel a bit better when walking past the local dickheads that aren’t observing social distancing guidelines.

You mean like Boris Johnson?

[Deleted User]

@Shiro said:

@MonzoPro said:
I read an article today about the discrepancy in people’s symptoms. According to the article, it’s about the viral ‘load’ the infected person receives. So a health worker could pick up a big hit from several sources, which causes more serious symptoms. Whereas a brief single encounter in the street, will have a lesser effect.

This then affects the amount of shedding, and so the infection can also be higher or lower to others.

Made me feel a bit better when walking past the local dickheads that aren’t observing social distancing guidelines.

You mean like Boris Johnson?

Yup.