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I hope no one you love dies during this crisis, Robert.
lol, are always the tears of truth
House Leaders protected their members from being accountable for their vote on the Economic relief bill which is the biggest corporate welfare bill in history. Pelosi could have setup remote voting but chose not to. #DumpPelosi #DumpMitch
@InfoCheck : that is a misleading video starring a house member who forced all of the House to reconvene in person. The Hill once-upon-a-time tried to be non-partisan but over the years has turned into a tool of the right-wing. Their John Solomon has been very shady during the Trump era.
The stimulus package is far far far from ideal...and the worst of it came from the stuff the Senate stuck in which left Pelosi having to decide whether to hold up any relief at all since the Senate has shown its bad faith and willingness to inflict damage on the majority of Americans to further its agenda.
Would be great if you would highlight the shameful GOP senate behavior.
In the interview, GOP Congressman Massie, specifically mentioned both Democratic House Majority leader Pelosi and GOP House Minority leader McCarthy blocked a vote which would have held all the members of the House accountable for their vote. Pelosi could have enacted remote voting some time ago but decided not to.
As Congressman Massie indicated, our leaders are asking citizens in vital industries to continue working so why shouldn’t their elected representatives do the same? They’re all off on vacation.
All of the Senators who weren’t isolated due to their corona virus exposure, all voted for the bill in the Senate 96-0, at least they went on the record to do so.
The naive some how think this is a Democrat versus Republican issue, it’s not. The leaders of the House and Senate met with the Treasury Secretary to negotiate the bill. They could have separated out the corporate bailout into another bill and limited this one and put it into a separate bill which would have been the wise thing to do given the history of the 2008 Wall Street bailout and how those companies abused the tax payers money. This was a political ploy to push through corporate welfare, which wouldn’t have had the same level of support from the public, and holding the aid to working people and small business hostage by rolling it all into one bill.
The politicians took advantage of the sheeple and expertly herded them in the direction they wanted to go which was to give crumbs to workers and small business and to provide corporations with $500 billion they can leverage into $4-6 trillion in low interest loans from the Federal Reserve. When more businesses start to fail, these corporations will still have money to pick and choose what they want leading to more corporate consolidation all thanks to our government leaders.
Some of the sheeple will start to look up and see what’s happening while others will continue to look at the wolves in sheep clothing for guidance because they’re too locked into and distracted by partisan politics. Follow the money sheeple.
Current state of sheeple...
You underestimate the bad faith of the GOP. There was literally no chance to separate out the corporate welfare. The GOP in the senate never would have passed it. They made it clear. Given how politics work, if any dem in the senate had voted against it, the GOP would be able to run ads that the democrats were blocking aid.
While I think the democrats could have held a tighter line, they also understand that the GOP has too much money behind them to risk the the consequences of the GOP blocking any bill and blaming the democrats for the carnage.
The dems attempted to negotiate some degree of oversight and transparency into the bill...and Trump issued a signing statement that says he will ignore those provisions.
The GOP holds all the cards, and they are willing to let huge numbers of Americans go bankrupt, starve and die to get what they want. The D’s, not perfect for sure, have not much power when faced with a Senate and President fully committed to a hideous agenda.
An Instructional Video for the Sheeple
On the passage of the Economic Relief Bill a.k.a. Corporate Welfare on Steroids
Starring:
1. Narrator as our Government leaders
2. Milo the Dog as the Sheeple
3. Amusement at Tricking their dog as getting the corporate agenda passed
4. Dog Treat as funding for workers and small business
5. Dog’s trust of their owner as the public’s misplaced trust in their leaders
There literally was a chance to introduce a bill without the corporate piece in the House which the Democrats control. They chose not to. The bill they introduced in the House had many politics as usual pork provisions added to it which did not directly relate to economic relief during the ongoing emergency.
If the House leadership had introduced a bill without the corporate piece, they could have told the American people that now is the time to support the people who need our help the most. Given the corporate abuse which happened after the last corporate bailout such provisions would need more careful consideration and should not be rushed through as they were before. They could have expressed the need to address corporate aid in a separate bill later rather holding up aid for those that need it now. They chose not to. Both the Democrats and Republicans chose not to put workers and small business first.
It’s really shameful how our government leaders from both parties abuse the loyalty of the people they’re supposed to serve rather than giving it unwaveringly to corporations and Wall Street.
@InfoCheck : there was literally no chance McConnell would have let the senate consider it. While the dems are far from perfect, the impeachment debacle should have made it clear that the Senate would never have passed the bill you think the House could have presented.
Sure, they could have spent time on something the senate would not have passed and try to shame the GOP, but that would have failed and resulted in a lot more suffering.
You seem to be arguing with a "rationalist" who uses the word "sheeple" without irony.
If there’s one thing I really do not like, it’s how low a bar many of our citizens have set for the performance of our government leaders. Too many of them have decided not to participate in the selection process at all by not voting. Under these conditions, I doubt there will be much ability to make meaningful change.
Seeing one’s self as a victim of our political system can become a barrier to focusing on what it is we can each do to support decisions that are in line with our values.
Discusses who got left out of the economic relief bill.
What happened to ranting about the virus?
It's obviously going to swamp the healthcare resources every nation. It had no political
angle. It's all about how societies adapt to the circumstances of limiting social contact to
control the R factor (the rate of transmission).
Using this thread to air political grievances is a bad idea, IMHO But "If It Makes You Happy".
You're welcome to use the mic.
It's not just killing old people. It's more insidious than that.
My concern is that the way the economic and political system are and have developed in various countries has greatly impacted how the virus has impacted the countries. From what I’ve read, Taiwan (for e.g.) has been very successful so I’d hope other countries could benefit from their experiences to the extent it’s viable in their country and culture.
is your synopsis of the GoP bill that was done in the senate with the Whitehouse and completely without the democrats somewhere in this thread, cause I can't find it?
the detractors are trying to make it sound like the relief bill started with the house and ended with the house, while they know the bill started with the White House and senate who are lockstep with one another and didn't even consult with the democrats on any of it until after they were done. Who in their right mind is going to try to make it look like Pelosi is the one running the show, or like Pelosi is the one who is beholden to corporate demigods over that jive turkey Mitch mcconnel and president trump, that's one lie that even president trump would try to tell.
For me the big problem is the Republican and Democratic leadership didn’t separate out the corporate bailout into its own bill. I think if they’d done that, I think it would have received a lot more scrutiny and oversight than it ended up having.
The Democrats could have created a bill that left out the corporate bailout in the house and limited it to emergency funds for individuals, employment insurance, and small businesses and left off any extraneous funding. I think the American public would have been overwhelmingly been for it even more than for the bill that was passed and signed. This public pressure would have forced the detractors from either party in the House or Senate to get behind it rather than being seen as stalling the bill because they want to make sure the corporations get bailed out again.
Since the leadership of both parties and the executive branch didn’t do this, it’s clear they were invested in it. Even if the Senate had baulked at passing a bill without the corporate bailout, it would have clearly been on them and I believe the American public would have pressured them to cave rather than vice versa.
There were members of both parties that had concerns about the bailout but they weren’t able to resist it politically because the leaders had already made a deal and any dissenters would be seen as sabotaging the negotiations that had already been made and the public was clamoring for immediate relief.
How many deaths
will too many donuts cause
and what is there to do
now our lives have been put on pause
@InfoCheck write: “For me the big problem is the Republican and Democratic leadership didn’t separate out the corporate bailout into its own bill. I think if they’d done that, I think it would have received a lot more scrutiny and oversight than it ended up having.”
That would have been awesome.
It wasn’t a possibility.
Mitch McConnell is deeply opposed to any legislation that doesn’t further his version of America. He is opposed to letting any bill come up for a vote that might shed a positive light on democrats. He has been single-minded in his pursuit of de facto single party rule.
The GOP made it clear that they would not go for separate clean bills. Mitch McConnell has been clear in how he has run the Republican senators for over a decade.
Since the house went democratic, he hasn't allowed countless reasonable bills even come to the floor for consideration or debate.
I would have thought his assurance that he was devoted to make Obama a one-term president (i.e. legislative votes were based on denying Obama “victories” regardless of their effect on Americans) and not allowing Merrick Garland (who is not a liberal by any stretch) a hearing of any sort should have cured anyone of the notion that McConnell cares about anything other than denying democrats any influence or victories.
Thinking that the democrats have any significant leverage is, in my opinion, naive. Their own leverage would have resulted in a worsening situation for a large number of people.
As imperfect as they are, they are a far less destructive force than the modern GOP.
I wonder if the people that were here saying that washing hands and keeping some distance while going about life as usual are starting to understand now that that does not work to stop the epidemic..and that maybe the public health experts and epidemiologists knew something they didn’t.
Had someone ask me (from a distance) what I thought would be the response of folks if this happened all over again in two or three years time. My guess was that politically and personally it would be far quicker/more decisive, but we probably need to go through the next three months first.
I am super grateful that people seem to be complying and helping each other out rather well in my neck of the woods. On top of that it looks like it will be raining cats and dogs for two weeks which will help keep people at home.
I think the concept of... "Leaders who are attempting to further "their" version of America" raises very interesting questions ... Exactly what are "their" visions of America? What do they want America to become?
I had a conversation with a friend earlier today. I'll ask the same question here that I asked her.
Imagine you had a million dollars, what would you do with it?
Her answer: I'd be set for life, and help the members of my Family.
Now imagine you had 200 million dollars, what would you do with that?
Her answer: I'd make sure all my friends and family were set for the rest of their lives. I'd open animal shelters. Start a therapeutic horseback riding program for handicapped riders. Look for other ways to help people who need help.
Then I said to her that I'd basically do the same things.
The point we both then agreed on, was that neither of us was capable of having great wealth without feeling compelled in some way use it to help others. Neither of us would be able to feel good about ourselves if we possessed hundreds of millions, or even billions of dollars, without using it to somehow help others who need help.
The point I wanted to make is that some people would never be able to amass fortunes of the sizes that some of the wealthiest people in the world have. Because we would feel sick if we didn't use that kind of wealth for somehow trying to make the world a better place.
And because of our sense of ethics, we would never be able to become that wealthy, because we'd be using it in a way our ethical senses compel us, and that compulsion would never allow us to become that wealthy.
If the government of a country comes to be very influenced by groups of very wealthy people....
What might the values of these people who are capable of amassing such great fortunes be?
Giving these ideas some deep thought, might lead to a better understanding about what might be happening in the heads of certain members of our governmental leadership at this time.
the 'will' that you think exist on the right, simply does not exist.... and the rightwing supporters would rather commit hari-kari than do the right thing.... not only that the senate and White House has told you over and over and over and over again that there is no daylight between them... I'm sorry but every calculation has to begin with the correct numbers if it wants to be successful in result. There is no way that Mitt Romney + everyone in the House could mount a revolution for anything that doesn't live and die within the total and complete powers of the house.... anything else and I mean anything, that includes haircuts go nowhere if they need anything from the senate or the Whitehouse.
if people wanna call foul on something it should be that the branches of government are not acting as checks and balances as they should, the senate is not even acting on it's purpose and instead is acting to stop legislation from being made not make it... at least that's their day job their nighttime gig is covering the anus of the president and his swampy den of swamp things with as much gusto as they can muster, but I'm sure you've seen all of this play out for the last 3 years every single day.
false equivalencies be damned.
denial of reality and hatred for Pelosi won't change the present.
GOP
Interesting food for thought there Mister Trainer.
I’d have to say that I definitely differ in my answer, my wife and I often used to argue on this point in the eventuality we won the lottery (well not any more, as we differ on this point and we know it). My wife would fritter it away in the same way as those answers, by giving it to family, etc in ever wider circles of dissipation.
I’d harness it all myself, not even we’d get much, I’d start businesses and increasingly lever the money as capital to spin off new opportunities. Many of these would fail, some would succeed, and focusing on the successes would distribute the benefit of the capital to far more people than otherwise, by job opportunity, product innovation, lifestyle improvement, etc. Later I’d expect we’d be better off than if we’d just selfishly kept it and handed it out to family, but the reward would be a constant flow by then, not a distantly remembered one-off.
But Ian, the money would corrupt you, you would leave your wife, and hoard. We must protect you (and your marriage) from the levers of power.
No, I’m good. I wouldn’t want to impose on you.