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I’ve noticed this balanced critique here:
Who’d have thought that it’s possible for one country to take completely opposing viewpoints to another country? I’d have thought they’re all involved in doing the same job the same way to the same ends. Quite surprising, life is, sometimes.
Stay inside! Don't go out in the sun
The Government’s stay at home message has been “too successful”, a leading statistician has said as he warns that people are “over anxious” about coronavirus.
A recent survey for Ipsos Mori suggested that more than 60 per cent of Britons would feel uncomfortable carrying out their usual activities - like going to bars or restaurants, or using public transport - if the lockdown is eased
The UK has the second-worst death toll in the world, so I think it's quite a stretch to argue that the lockdown has been "too successful".
All-cause mortality in the worst-affected areas, including that great success story Sweden:
The only way to avoid a lockdown (if you don't want excess deaths that is) is to track-and-trace and test extensively. That requires a government that has its shit together and a population that is willing to comply. Possible in South Korea but unlikely in those bastions of individualism that are the US and the UK.
You could argue that it has been pointless and damaging. Here's one of many personal experiences:
"I recently underwent bowel cancer surgery which was a success; I’m now fully recovered and back at work – I was discharged the very day the first coronavirus media reports appeared. The ‘fly in the ointment’ for me was that I had a coincidental finding of a suspicious lesion on a kidney – so they needed to bring me back to have it biopsied, then removed. I attended for the biopsy only to be told that all cases were being deferred for three months because of coronavirus – so I was sent home with no biopsy and no prospect of having the lesion removed in the near future. It is somewhat ironic that I make a great recovery from the first cancer, owing to the excellent NHS care I received, only to now find myself under house arrest, possibly along with tens of thousands of other cancer patients, waiting for a low stage cancer to become a high stage cancer. What do you think the take-up would be if those in my position organised a Friday evening clap-in at 8pm each week for all those heroes who will probably die due to their treatment being withdrawn to keep empty beds free ‘just in case’? At least they would know their sacrifice was appreciated while they were still alive."
The whole point of lockdown is to prevent the health service being overwhelmed by Coranavirus cases. So without lockdown the health service would be even more stretched than it is.
Having said that I believe cancer patients should still be treated, otherwise that's just another disaster in the making, but it's a completely separate issue from the lockdown, and is almost certainly down to a chronic lack of resources.
But the more we can manage the virus, the more we can be like South Korea and not Italy, the more resources we can direct at everything else. New Zealand has crushed the curve, and I'm sure they're not sending cancer patients home.
But if we just let the virus rip, things will be much worse. In Lombardy when the health service was overwhelmed they couldn't treat heart attacks or strokes, so far more people were dying than just those who had the virus.
The UK health service was never overwhelmed. The nightingale temporary hospitals they constructed remain empty. The UK left it too late for a lockdown to have any real effect and went off from highly dubious alarmist predictions from the Imperial College London.
Right - the UK health service was not overwhelmed - because we had a lockdown. And yes it was late, but better than never. If we had no lockdown we could have been like Lombardy or New York. Even with a lockdown we have the second-worst death rate in the world.
The reason the temporary hospitals are empty is because we don't have enough doctors and nurses to staff them, it's due to a shortage of resources and not a shortage of patients. If we had more healthcare staff we could use those hospitals do deal with non-COVID patients.
How do you stop a highly contagious respiratory disease if you don't take steps to contain it? Lockdown works by keeping people apart, which slows the contagion. The only other proven method is track-and-trace (and quarantine known cases), the UK doesn't have the infrastructure in place to achieve that, but the government is apparently working on it, but cases have to be way down before we can realistically use that approach.
Otherwise what, just let tens of thousands of people die? Let dozens of doctors and nurses die? How do you replace the doctors and nurses that have died after contracting the virus?
It was never overwhelmed because we had a lockdown and cancelled other surgeries as well as built extra capacity, same nonsense as the millennium bug already popping up.
Fuck any arsehole who starts with this bullshit now.
The virus deaths peaked in the UK on April 8th. It's not realistic to think that this was brought about by the lockdown on March 23rd.
The healthcare system wasn’t overwhelmed because of lockdown, but people have died and suffered, and will continue to, of non-direct Covid infection.
"C19 is the first disease in history from which you can officially die without any firm evidence that you actually had it"
"As the death rate from C19 reduces in the UK, it is clear that the C19 threat level never warranted the lockdown regime and the collapse of the economy."
LOKIN-20: The Lockdown Regime Causes Increasing Health Concerns
https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/29/lokin-20-the-lockdown-regime-causes-increasing-health-concerns/
Any fans of Trump should drink bleach or disinfectant at regular intervals until they are no longer fans of Trump.
I guarantee this will work one way or another if you do as instructed and not seek medical advice.
I repeat do not seek medical advice and do not show any signs of weakness to anyone as they may be agents of the deep state determined to steer you from the true path.
This truth will set you free.
https://off-guardian.org/about/
In short ‘by shitflakes, for shitflakes‘
People started voluntarily social distancing before the lockdown was enforced, which is very likely to be a factor here. But without lockdown there would still be crowded pubs, cinemas, restaurants, sporting events etc... So you can't rely solely on voluntary measures.
If the argument is that social distancing doesn't somehow reduce the spread of contagious disease then I'm sorry but the argument is bullshit.
Right, and this never happened:
Wuhan, Lombardy, New York are just illusions. Healthcare workers dying by the dozens in all affected areas are not real. What planet are you on?
I'm tired of bad faith arguments using cherry-picked data. It is possible to avoid lockdown, and to avoid shutting down the economy, but that requires acting early and decisively.
Sweden is not a success story. The countries that have been effective are South Korea, Taiwain, Hong Kong and New Zealand - none of those countries stood back and did nothing, which is what the lockdown deniers are arguing for, those countries all took very strong action early on.
Argue for effective action by all means, but not by denying the real dangers that this virus has visibly caused in the areas where it has really taken hold.
^^^ all of that> @d4d0ug said:
True, but I see AUSTERITY +++ by another name on the horizon.
Did you even read that article. It explains that if you go back more than 5 years (which is most of the charts people throw up to show how bad it is), the death rate is really not that exceptional. As for cherry picked data, that would be your chart. This year vs “recent years”. How many years is that?
The virus isn't spread uniformly across the UK, there are always hotspots, mainly in urban areas. The death rate in London is exceptional:
And again, you completely fail to address the deaths of health workers.
That’s great that the builder is still working next door. There are a few more people out of work though.
“ In summary: In direct contradiction of the media coverage, healthcare workers are NOT being disproportionately affected by Covid19. They are actually substantially under-represented.”
Coronavirus Fact-Check #4: “Why are so many healthcare workers dying?”
https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/27/coronavirus-fact-check-4-why-are-so-many-healthcare-workers-dying/