OT: Vent About Global Pandemic Management *HERE*

JohnnyGoodyear

Énouement: The bittersweetness of having arrived in the future, seeing how things turn out, but not being able to tell your past self.

LinearLineman

I, for one, am sorry to see the self going. My self, in particular. It is unlikely any selves in the future will ever experience what I did in the 70s... an artist type, rejecting society and able to live out the artist’s dream, in one of the world’s paramount cities, for a pittance. I was truly fortunate.

McD

@LinearLineman said:
I, for one, am sorry to see the self going. My self, in particular. It is unlikely any selves in the future will ever experience what I did in the 70s... an artist type, rejecting society and able to live out the artist’s dream, in one of the world’s paramount cities, for a pittance. I was truly fortunate.

Yes. We did have a good time between WWII and Trump. Boomers get a lot of advantages if they we're able to get past the gate keepers of privilege. I'm sure the usual barriers still
impacted jobs, housing but everything laid out flor me like a river once I got the right degree and a license to top pay due to Moore's Law and the Internet. Speaking personally... I hit multiple jackpots by reading the right signals.

Now feel like I owe the future and all these kids about to be ground into mulch.

kobamoto

@simonnowis said:

repairations ... ?

this is something that really used to get my breath going (with words and thoughts flying out)

i think it was being 'blamed' for something i hadn't done

so we're talking systems?

i herd on the radio that more black judges were needed, but it was an issue 'cos it takes $ years to become a judge

if it takes £ years to become a 'judge' then i suggest the issue of non representation is deeper than the colour of skin

is the solution in skin colour change .or. wealth redistribution ?

imo it's fairly a simple issue, when it comes to anybody else nobody feels guilty, reparations in all it's forms is just a function of government, it's only when it comes to a certain skin tone that it becomes an issue of who's getting blamed and folks start catching feelings... Personally I'd recommend that anyone feeling guilty or blamed get over themselves and recognize that everybody around the world has the ability to make a distinction between the American people and the American government so there is no reason why Americans shouldn't be able to do it...
and if the American government paying reparations for past transgressions of institutionalized inequality is too much for one to handle then forget about the past, and let them pay reparations for the current institutionalized transgressions of inequality instead, I mean does it even make a difference, hold up any deck of cards and pick out a decade or two it's all the same according to the math..

u0421793

@Mark B said:

@u0421793 said:
Last century, as we all know from Adam Curtis was the century of the self, and it seems that’s all now finally coming to an end. I’m exceedingly gratified at how the government has handled COVID-19 and how the people of the UK has responded responsibly. At first I, like many others, feared that we would retort and stand our individualistic ground a bit, but we didn’t, we for the most part complied and did what we were asked to (with minor exceptions that in my opinion only count for noise). We’ve officially lost that individualistic ‘self’ I grew up with in the latter half of the 20th century, and that’s a shame, and also a good thing. Overall I think it’s far more a good thing than the other. It’ll just be such a striking value shift when in the future we see films made in the past 50 years and they’ll make normal people seem so arrogantly self-centred and socially irresponsible. Will we hate them – the 20th century we – or just treat them as ‘different times’ naive?

The UK government f@ked up big time. You either act early and lockdown like Taiwan and New Zealand (although this only extends the problem as there is no easy exit strategy), or you have have the protect the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. The UK government did neither and the virus has ravaged the care homes. As you for you approving the losing of the self, well that all sounds a bit George Orwell.

No, the knowledge at the beginning was highly incomplete, and much that we know now we simply didn’t at the start. We’ve had several pandemic exercises in preceding years, among which were Exercise Cygnus (an NHS exercise) and also the lesser known Exercise Winter Willow (a four nations governmental coordination exercise) and in each case the focus of the pandemic was an Influenza A type. Nearly no European source of knowledge was experienced in a coronavirus type of pandemic, so the exercises simply never featured something like SARS or MERS. Taiwan was very well versed in both of those. One could say we should have used a coronavirus as the target and not an influenza, as in the case of Event 201 ( https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html ) where this was used as the focus.

However, the big scare that most western countries across Europe actively prepare for isn’t this. This isn’t the big one. This isn’t the virus X scenario. The big one will be far more severe than this [1], will take out a far greater proportion of the population and far quicker. It’s all a bet, all in all. Nobody knows what will come next, so planning for an Influenza A and getting a coronavirus is just the way things happened, we can’t control it, we can’t tell the future, all the knowledge is asymmetrical across time, and the next pandemic will also have lots of unknowns and false starts and mistakes at the beginning. That’s expected.

The point is, there are so many unknowns at the start of any crisis, including the very real ‘is this actually a crisis’ unknown. It’s useless to look back and say we should’ve done this or that. A complex multivariate dynamic cybernetic system which also involves a multidisciplinary balancing act is more unknown than known, there’s nobody on the planet that knows what to do at any particular time, and those leaderships that admit that have come out of this the best.

[1] the reason we plan more for Influenza A than a coronavirus is because of the quite high risk of a chimerical H5N1 derived human->human transmissible Influenza A accidentally escaping from a BSL3/4 lab. That really would be far worse than this SARS-CoV-2 event (which in turn may or may not be related to SHC014-CoV)

kobamoto

@u0421793 said:

@Mark B said:

@u0421793 said:
Last century, as we all know from Adam Curtis was the century of the self, and it seems that’s all now finally coming to an end. I’m exceedingly gratified at how the government has handled COVID-19 and how the people of the UK has responded responsibly. At first I, like many others, feared that we would retort and stand our individualistic ground a bit, but we didn’t, we for the most part complied and did what we were asked to (with minor exceptions that in my opinion only count for noise). We’ve officially lost that individualistic ‘self’ I grew up with in the latter half of the 20th century, and that’s a shame, and also a good thing. Overall I think it’s far more a good thing than the other. It’ll just be such a striking value shift when in the future we see films made in the past 50 years and they’ll make normal people seem so arrogantly self-centred and socially irresponsible. Will we hate them – the 20th century we – or just treat them as ‘different times’ naive?

The UK government f@ked up big time. You either act early and lockdown like Taiwan and New Zealand (although this only extends the problem as there is no easy exit strategy), or you have have the protect the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. The UK government did neither and the virus has ravaged the care homes. As you for you approving the losing of the self, well that all sounds a bit George Orwell.

No, the knowledge at the beginning was highly incomplete, and much that we know now we simply didn’t at the start. We’ve had several pandemic exercises in preceding years, among which were Exercise Cygnus (an NHS exercise) and also the lesser known Exercise Winter Willow (a four nations governmental coordination exercise) and in each case the focus of the pandemic was an Influenza A type. Nearly no European source of knowledge was experienced in a coronavirus type of pandemic, so the exercises simply never featured something like SARS or MERS. Taiwan was very well versed in both of those. One could say we should have used a coronavirus as the target and not an influenza, as in the case of Event 201 ( https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html ) where this was used as the focus.

However, the big scare that most western countries across Europe actively prepare for isn’t this. This isn’t the big one. This isn’t the virus X scenario. The big one will be far more severe than this [1], will take out a far greater proportion of the population and far quicker. It’s all a bet, all in all. Nobody knows what will come next, so planning for an Influenza A and getting a coronavirus is just the way things happened, we can’t control it, we can’t tell the future, all the knowledge is asymmetrical across time, and the next pandemic will also have lots of unknowns and false starts and mistakes at the beginning. That’s expected.

The point is, there are so many unknowns at the start of any crisis, including the very real ‘is this actually a crisis’ unknown. It’s useless to look back and say we should’ve done this or that. A complex multivariate dynamic cybernetic system which also involves a multidisciplinary balancing act is more unknown than known, there’s nobody on the planet that knows what to do at any particular time, and those leaderships that admit that have come out of this the best.

[1] the reason we plan more for Influenza A than a coronavirus is because of the quite high risk of a chimerical H5N1 derived human->human transmissible Influenza A accidentally escaping from a BSL3/4 lab. That really would be far worse than this SARS-CoV-2 event (which in turn may or may not be related to SHC014-CoV)

the least that we can do is not lie about it every single day from the podium of the highest office in or respective lands, no need to compound such a crisis imho

Mark B

Before it took off in the UK we knew quite a lot about it from the China data. Such as an estimate of the R0, the transmissibility and the demographic that were at risk. To imply this took us by surprise is a bit strange.

ElectroHead

See below

ElectroHead

@ElectroHead said:

@McD said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@ElectroHead said:
@vitocorleone123 Your views are utterly US-centric, and blind. The shitshow that would have unfolded in Syria had Hilary won would have made the Iraq war look like a playground scuffle by comparison.

This is so patently absurd and arrogant I burst out laughing. The shitshow that WOULD HAVE unfolded? Syria is the worst humanitarian disaster in the world. What a weird, pompous thing to say. Does your club give you Realpolitik Points™ for spouting bluster on music forums?

The conflict in Syria is over except for Idlib province where die-hard jihadists (mostly non-Syrians ) funded and armed by US, Israel, Turkey and Saudi are holding out. The US under Clinton's orders shipped weapons from the Libyan army after the "regime change" operation by US, France and UK, to Syria via Turkey,

Look at this article from the _Independent _ a globalist paper that was vehemently pro-EU anti Trump etc.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mi6-the-cia-and-turkeys-rogue-game-in-syria-9256551.html

Before Russia stepped in, ISIS were at the edge of Damascus.

Clinton. was clear that her first move if elected would be to (unilaterally and illegally) impose a no-fly zone over Syria. And that would mean the US targeting Russian military planes.

So yes, if the US had gone in to Syria on the side of the Jihadis - the pressure to do so from MSM and hawks was particularly intense during the battle for Aleppo, the situation WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MUCH WORSE with the likelihood of open conflict between the US and Russia and many, many more deaths of Syrian citizens, if that is the conflict remained contained in Syria.

The White Helmets were set up by western intelligence agencies. Roger Waters has been doing a sterling job of investigating this and bringing it to public attention.

Nothing weird or pompous, just facts. Instead of responding with sneering abuse, how about a coherent counter argument?

robosardine

I’m interested to know what the mortality rate is here in the UK (or anywhere) for deaths which are not being attributed to the corona virus this first quarter of the year in comparison to the last few years. Any pointers?- apologies if I missed this already.

richardyot

@robosardine said:
I’m interested to know what the mortality rate is here in the UK (or anywhere) for deaths which are not being attributed to the corona virus this first quarter of the year in comparison to the last few years. Any pointers?- apologies if I missed this already.

The FT has been tracking this:

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

richardyot

richardyot

@ElectroHead said:

@ElectroHead said:

@McD said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@ElectroHead said:
@vitocorleone123 Your views are utterly US-centric, and blind. The shitshow that would have unfolded in Syria had Hilary won would have made the Iraq war look like a playground scuffle by comparison.

This is so patently absurd and arrogant I burst out laughing. The shitshow that WOULD HAVE unfolded? Syria is the worst humanitarian disaster in the world. What a weird, pompous thing to say. Does your club give you Realpolitik Points™ for spouting bluster on music forums?

The conflict in Syria is over except for Idlib province where die-hard jihadists (mostly non-Syrians ) funded and armed by US, Israel, Turkey and Saudi are holding out. The US under Clinton's orders shipped weapons from the Libyan army after the "regime change" operation by US, France and UK, to Syria via Turkey,

Look at this article from the _Independent _ a globalist paper that was vehemently pro-EU anti Trump etc.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mi6-the-cia-and-turkeys-rogue-game-in-syria-9256551.html

Before Russia stepped in, ISIS were at the edge of Damascus.

Clinton. was clear that her first move if elected would be to (unilaterally and illegally) impose a no-fly zone over Syria. And that would mean the US targeting Russian military planes.

So yes, if the US had gone in to Syria on the side of the Jihadis - the pressure to do so from MSM and hawks was particularly intense during the battle for Aleppo, the situation WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MUCH WORSE with the likelihood of open conflict between the US and Russia and many, many more deaths of Syrian citizens, if that is the conflict remained contained in Syria.

The White Helmets were set up by western intelligence agencies. Roger Waters has been doing a sterling job of investigating this and bringing it to public attention.

Nothing weird or pompous, just facts. Instead of responding with sneering abuse, how about a coherent counter argument?

Just to add to this, if anyone is in any doubt as to what Hilary Clinton's foreign policy would have looked like, just look at the shitshow that was the intervention in Lybia. For some reason it's been brushed under the carpet, but Obama and Clinton were just as bad as Bush when it comes to reckless foreign interventions. And that's not to mention the totally insane and immoral support for jihadis in Syria.

robosardine

@richardyot said:

@robosardine said:
I’m interested to know what the mortality rate is here in the UK (or anywhere) for deaths which are not being attributed to the corona virus this first quarter of the year in comparison to the last few years. Any pointers?- apologies if I missed this already.

The FT has been tracking this:

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

Thank you for that.
I’m now trying to work out the expected weekly mortality rate for under 75’s due expressly to Coronavirus- though I realise now that my amateur calculations will be well off the mark and I’m sure I’m not the first.
I am however convinced though that if the over 70’s who are vulnerable were to remain in lockdown for the time being (give them free satellite tv, books and internet devices) and if care homes were properly supported then there is now more than enough capacity in the NHS (UK) to treat all serious cases that may arise should the lockdown BEGIN to be lifted now. These gigantic hospitals are practically empty and have been for some time. Harrogate Nightingale Has not taken any patients, Birmingham has none and so far London has treated 51.
I am also convinced that the dire economic consequences of the lockdown will lead to a great deal of ill health and death.
Has any modelling been done to predict this?

richardyot

@robosardine said:

@richardyot said:

@robosardine said:
I’m interested to know what the mortality rate is here in the UK (or anywhere) for deaths which are not being attributed to the corona virus this first quarter of the year in comparison to the last few years. Any pointers?- apologies if I missed this already.

The FT has been tracking this:

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

Thank you for that.
I’m now trying to work out the expected weekly mortality rate for under 75’s due expressly to Coronavirus- though I realise now that my amateur calculations will be well off the mark and I’m sure I’m not the first.
I am however convinced though that if the over 70’s who are vulnerable were to remain in lockdown for the time being (give them free satellite tv, books and internet devices) and if care homes were properly supported then there is now more than enough capacity in the NHS (UK) to treat all serious cases that may arise should the lockdown BEGIN to be lifted now. These gigantic hospitals are practically empty and have been for some time. Harrogate Nightingale Has not taken any patients, Birmingham has none and so far London has treated 51.
I am also convinced that the dire economic consequences of the lockdown will lead to a great deal of ill health and death.
Has any modelling been done to predict this?

Well part of the reason for the empty hospitals is down to staff shortages, you simply can't ramp up healthcare staff overnight.

And on a related issue, the capacity of the health service is determined by more than just whether hospitals are at capacity - for example the dire shortage of PPE supplies is putting health workers at risk, and they are dropping like flies. Until that gets sorted then it's simply unfair to expose health workers to even more risk by opening up the country IMO.

richardyot

https://twitter.com/MattMurph24/status/1255529733128937473

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ElectroHead

@richardyot said:

I am also convinced that the dire economic consequences of the lockdown will lead to a great deal of ill health and death.
Has any modelling been done to predict this?

I'm afraid you're right. But I think this situation is so unprecedented that computer modelling of potential outcomes would hardly be useful: IMO there are too many unknown factors which will come into play that algos cannot foresee.

Western governments and state apparatus have been caught with their pants down. This is not only the fault of the politicians in power now, but the culmination of years' of negligence, not only of short-sighted governments, but by state apparatus in general. I predict that in many places people will demand more power for local government and decentralization, so economic projects can be initiated on regional levels to respond to the specifics of local regions.

Globalism as we know it is over. In Europe, some budget airlines will go under, cheap weekend getaways to other countries will become a thing of the past - and with added medical checks for all travelers at airports will make taking a flight a tedious process that many will choose to avoid. Then there will be massive demand for governments to ensure self-sufficiency in medicines and vital goods.

Many corporations will downscale, resulting in less jobs in cities and an exodus to the countryside: in the UK, for example, instead of a apartment in Spain many will be aspire for a home where they can grow their own vegetables.

In the long run, this could all have some positive outcomes:

• tighter knit local communities with far more interaction
• more and cheaper housing in cities - e.g. many of the City's and Canary Warf skyscrapers may be turned into accommodation.
• shorter supply chains and fewer planes in the sky = less pollution

espiegel123

@robosardine said:

@richardyot said:

@robosardine said:
I’m interested to know what the mortality rate is here in the UK (or anywhere) for deaths which are not being attributed to the corona virus this first quarter of the year in comparison to the last few years. Any pointers?- apologies if I missed this already.

The FT has been tracking this:

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

Thank you for that.
I’m now trying to work out the expected weekly mortality rate for under 75’s due expressly to Coronavirus- though I realise now that my amateur calculations will be well off the mark and I’m sure I’m not the first.
I am however convinced though that if the over 70’s who are vulnerable were to remain in lockdown for the time being (give them free satellite tv, books and internet devices) and if care homes were properly supported then there is now more than enough capacity in the NHS (UK) to treat all serious cases that may arise should the lockdown BEGIN to be lifted now. These gigantic hospitals are practically empty and have been for some time. Harrogate Nightingale Has not taken any patients, Birmingham has none and so far London has treated 51.
I am also convinced that the dire economic consequences of the lockdown will lead to a great deal of ill health and death.
Has any modelling been done to predict this?

Why the focus on people over 70?

People under 70 die from COVID19 -- and it is still unknown what long-term impacts there will be for people that survive bad cases. COVID19 is not strictly a respiratory illness. It causes strokes and damage to internal organs in many people. We still don't know the long-term impact on many of those that had bad cases.

The Economist is trying to stay current with tracking excess death stats:

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

vitocorleone123

Science doesn't even have a handle on the disease, and already the US government (and others) are rushing to try and open things.

Covid 19 is doing more than causing breathing problems, as we're learning. Children are developing issues. 20 - 50 year olds are stroking out.

Trump's response (imagined, based on tweets and news stories):

"Who the F*%K cares? I just need the economy to not crater so I can maybe get elected! Now, how can I make the Post Office stop working so all this vote by mail bulls%^t can go away?"

kobamoto

@richardyot said:

@ElectroHead said:

@ElectroHead said:

@McD said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@ElectroHead said:
@vitocorleone123 Your views are utterly US-centric, and blind. The shitshow that would have unfolded in Syria had Hilary won would have made the Iraq war look like a playground scuffle by comparison.

This is so patently absurd and arrogant I burst out laughing. The shitshow that WOULD HAVE unfolded? Syria is the worst humanitarian disaster in the world. What a weird, pompous thing to say. Does your club give you Realpolitik Points™ for spouting bluster on music forums?

The conflict in Syria is over except for Idlib province where die-hard jihadists (mostly non-Syrians ) funded and armed by US, Israel, Turkey and Saudi are holding out. The US under Clinton's orders shipped weapons from the Libyan army after the "regime change" operation by US, France and UK, to Syria via Turkey,

Look at this article from the _Independent _ a globalist paper that was vehemently pro-EU anti Trump etc.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mi6-the-cia-and-turkeys-rogue-game-in-syria-9256551.html

Before Russia stepped in, ISIS were at the edge of Damascus.

Clinton. was clear that her first move if elected would be to (unilaterally and illegally) impose a no-fly zone over Syria. And that would mean the US targeting Russian military planes.

So yes, if the US had gone in to Syria on the side of the Jihadis - the pressure to do so from MSM and hawks was particularly intense during the battle for Aleppo, the situation WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MUCH WORSE with the likelihood of open conflict between the US and Russia and many, many more deaths of Syrian citizens, if that is the conflict remained contained in Syria.

The White Helmets were set up by western intelligence agencies. Roger Waters has been doing a sterling job of investigating this and bringing it to public attention.

Nothing weird or pompous, just facts. Instead of responding with sneering abuse, how about a coherent counter argument?

Just to add to this, if anyone is in any doubt as to what Hilary Clinton's foreign policy would have looked like, just look at the shitshow that was the intervention in Lybia. For some reason it's been brushed under the carpet, but Obama and Clinton were just as bad as Bush when it comes to reckless foreign interventions. And that's not to mention the totally insane and immoral support for jihadis in Syria.

I wonder if Trump supporters know that Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton will not be on the Ballot in the next Election.

Never the less, let's reminisce and warm up these cold bones of ours ...

There is nothing that Obama and Clinton ever did that would make me vote for Donald Trump and here is the logic that supports this position. The number one reason that people claim to support trump is that Obama and Clinton were destructive, we all know what destruction is, but then to remedy this they claim they want to put somebody in office who will burn it all down... no your eyes are not deceiving you, you actually did read what you just read... the trump supporters core ideology in this regard is that the solution for a problem that consist of a destructive nature is to tear it all down.... they want Trump to go to Washington and be destructive. You will see countless claims being made of the this belief, they'll repeat it like a parrot but you will be super lucky if you ever find someone to say that they want Trump to tear it all down and then build it back up like it's supposed to be... I think this is because they themselves know that he doesn't build anything and everything he touches turns to ash.. all he does is put is name on stuff like the stimulus checks lol...

Just think about it for a moment... Obama and Clinton are destructive, corrupt , lying devils, and their answer to that is a more destructive, more corrupt, pathologically lying devil... and they want you to take them seriously?
that's like the sheriff exclaiming there's a murderer in your town and that he wants to catch him and replace him with a serial killer as if that will solve the problem.
You know making sense is not just a trendy past time, it's actually the building block for the substance of truth. Here is how it shoulda went.
Obama and Clinton are the worst thing you've ever seen (un-true but lets go with it)....

then you vote for trump to do the job because he is better at immigration and doesn't do things like separating thousands of children from their families forever

You vote for trump because you want less lies, not because you want him to lie more than all of the other politicians in americas documented history put together.

you vote for trump because you hate what Obama and Clinton did in the Middle East and you want him to do something waaaaaaaaaay better!!! not because you want him to put someone like jared Kushner in charge of the Middle East peace policy, not because you want him to betray the Kurds and create a whole new wave of hatred towards America, not because you want him to ally himself with Russia and syria, not because you want him and his omen of a son& law to give a green light to murder and dismember journalist.....
and definitely not because you want him to claim that the only treaty with Iran that we have is the worst thing he's ever seen (which is another lie because you know he hasn't seen any other)... and be the first President in modern times to make america the breaker of a nuclear agreement......

voting for trump for any reason is like being mad at Obama and Clinton for poking out your eye and then your solution is to poke out your other eye, pull out your Tongue and cut off both your ears, it literally makes no sense.

the second core reason stated for the trump vote is to 'drain the swamp'.... okay, don't even get me started on that one because it would take all day...... there is no other president in modern history with as much documented corruption as this one, from the emoluments clause violations , to non-profit corruption and everything in between
but if you bring that up the trump supporter will tell you they don't care about all of the corruption infesting his whole administration from the campaign managers in prison who owe millions to Russian mobsters to crooked lawyers that went to prison for committing crimes for and with individual one and American generals betraying their country and selling their services to Russia, to almost every single person in his administration being up to something....
the point being you don't vote for the swamp thing or the creature from the black lagoon to drain a swamp it makes no sense.....

but the truth is that in reality everything does make sense, all you have to do is add one variable... 'the people saying that they support the president for these reasons are lying... and then automagically it all makes sense.
all of their outrage over obamas golf and Clintons insecure emails doesn't truly mean anything to them because if it did their heads would explode over trumps golf and the insecure emails of his son and daughter, and his own insecure phone calls and communications.... it's all a very blatant Lie and they act like when they claim these reasons for supporting trump that they are actually making sense but as the nature of it common sense itself clearly dictates, that's not how credibility works.

Krupa

Top marks @kobamoto passionate and comprehensive 👍👍👍

richardyot

@kobamoto what makes you think I'm Trump supporter? It's possible to criticise Democrat politicians without supporting Trump...

I'm in the UK anyway, so I'll assume you quoted me by accident 😛

kobamoto

@richardyot said:
@kobamoto what makes you think I'm Trump supporter? It's possible to criticise Democrat politicians without supporting Trump...

I'm in the UK anyway, so I'll assume you quoted me by accident 😛

I didn't say you were a trump supporter Richard , your post just made me think about it.. as a matter of fact I know you're not too supportive of how he's acting right now lol, I would have addressed you directly if I had thought otherwise

sooner or later Americans will have to stop lying and come around and face the facts of why they support Donald Trump, the sooner the better cause right now the only truth I ever hear is when they say they want him to build a wall, all of the other intellectual arguments I've ever heard over his stance on the constitution, human rights, civil rights, the economy, (not Wall Street, the economy), foreign policy, trade, and this pandemic is the largest load of crapola and a waste of time. As if they're using any kind of actual logic to compare trump to other politicians.

richardyot

@kobamoto said:

@richardyot said:
@kobamoto what makes you think I'm Trump supporter? It's possible to criticise Democrat politicians without supporting Trump...

I'm in the UK anyway, so I'll assume you quoted me by accident 😛

I didn't say you were a trump supporter Richard , your post just made me think about it.. as a matter of fact I know you're not too supportive of how he's acting right now lol, I would have addressed you directly if I had thought otherwise

Fair enough. ☮️

kobamoto

@richardyot said:

@kobamoto said:

@richardyot said:
@kobamoto what makes you think I'm Trump supporter? It's possible to criticise Democrat politicians without supporting Trump...

I'm in the UK anyway, so I'll assume you quoted me by accident 😛

I didn't say you were a trump supporter Richard , your post just made me think about it.. as a matter of fact I know you're not too supportive of how he's acting right now lol, I would have addressed you directly if I had thought otherwise

Fair enough. ☮️

yeah man it's way bigger than us and I'm not sure the rest of the world knows what is really going on here, what kind of a place america really is... they wanted to impeach Obama for giving a fist bump to his wife, for telling one lie about Obama care like you can keep your doctor if you want, do you ya know how many lies Trump has told about his healthcare plan, the whole plan is a lie and on top of that he had the nerve to tell obamas keep your doctor lie too haha... you'd have thought people like this would have given Trump the boot a long time ago or not voted for him in the first place because he's been known quite well for decades, but nope... instead they put him in office to destroy the country, and destroy any good relationship with all of our allies, and to become BFFs with every dictator, despot, and lunatic around the world. This ain't your grandpas America by any means, not the America that put together the United Nations no it ain't!!!

richardyot

https://twitter.com/vote4robgill/status/1255922426120146947

LinearLineman

Rant: so let me say it, to those who think Trump is not genocidally minded.... can he not be considered an ethnic murderer by forcing Hispanic and black workers to jolly up shoulder to shoulder In the ole meat cutteries where, without a doubt, many will die with abetting complicit governors zeroing out there unemployment benefits? Obviously I think so. In addition, he makes fed use of the DPA so’s the Poor bastards cannot even due their employers for just compensation for their heinous and corrupt crimes against humanity. But use the DPA for valid reasons? Never.

So let me say it again... Trump and many around him, like Miller and Kushner see those who catch Covid as losers and cannon fodder. That they are part of ethnicities his base hates... so much the better. It was easy to stir hatred against the Jews in Germany (omg, he’s making that comparison... again! When will he shut up!) It was there already, just as it exists here, in the primal, terrified and threatened minds of millions of ‘murikans.

What is so terrific (use that Wordflex thesaurus here, guys) about Trump the Terrible is that his hateful motivations are so transparent. He cannot even pretend not be a monster. Which is a great, except when global buffoonery turns murderous, which it clearly has these days.

So let me be completely clear... it is perfectly reasonable that Ttumpler starts touting Zyklon gas as the new cure for 19. The “giftgas” that keeps giving. Whispered privately, at first, natch. That’s Eugenics for you, and... as he says... he gets these things. Yah.

JohnnyGoodyear

simonnowis

@JohnnyGoodyear i'm still not iwis that i'm/not creating all this )

playing in another dimension

meditation is seeing in the moment, synchronicity is a little -ish

a language game - unpicking the old spells and starting new

@LinearLineman if you din't have a 'self' can we lose it? is self the centre?

@kobamoto how do you feel about the term 'African Americans' ?is 'European Americans' used as much?

my interest in the modern world is the language - the only true division i can see in a money driven game, is in those with the font, and those looking to catch a little splash

you mentioned 'a distinction between the American people and the American government' is that not the issue?

@Max23 "success" )

listening to desert island disks, i found it both interesting and (to the 'me' at that time also repellent) that bill gates - mr microsoft cloud, chose 'Blue Skies' as his must save track

@ElectroHead fingers uncrossed this is a change for good )

as my intuition told me 'first you lose a fist, then you gain a hand') )