Hainbach and SonicLAB's Fundamental for iOS out now

oat_phipps

@cian said:
So what I'm hearing is that I probably don't want to buy this thing...

Nah it's a bust with a crappy interface. Instead of pretending to try to like it, I just got my refund and I feel relieved.

Philandering_Bastard

@oat_phipps said:
... with just a tiny bit of pre-internet age patience.

So it’s impossible?

Kidding, just got the Droneo manual bound. What a deep app that is.

cian

Yeah Droneo is cool even if it's Audiobus only. It does exactly what it says on the tin. Would be marvellous as an AU3

Another app which is worth looking at is auGenX which is a fantastic little oscillator and has a developer who is very responsive.

Oh well maybe he'll finish it in a few months - I can wait, there's plenty of other stuff to play with atm.

SpartanClownTide

I really liked the range and tone of the oscillators on the PC demo, seems like a lot of work went into those getting the sound. The concept is interesting enough. I just couldn't gel with the UX, as well there were crashes (in Reaper). Sounds like the ios version has these issues compounded. MPE not MPE and windowing that can't reveal the whole GUI, jeez I would have bought but I'm going to have to pass. I'll just dream on that the dev will have another stab at it one day.

oat_phipps

@Philandering_Bastard said:

@oat_phipps said:
... with just a tiny bit of pre-internet age patience.

So it’s impossible?

Kidding, just got the Droneo manual bound. What a deep app that is.

The only flaw is the pop when switching from the app back to the host. So you have to have it set before recording. Pretty big flaw, but it gives so much more than Fundamental and its even bigger flaws.

Carnbot

If Droneo was AU with mappable parameters and you could sequence the app with automation, it would be comparable, but I'd still prefer Fundamental, the machine-learned sounds are much more natural to me. I hope he fixes the remaining issues, but I'm very happy with what the app can do.

skiphunt

@0tolerance4silence said:
@skiphunt
Buffer length is the amount of time you allow your cpu to do the required processing.
Shorter buffer means lower latency (which is what you as user want), so you can record audio/midi without detectable delay. The more complex the task becomes - lot of plugins, or cpu demanding plugins being used - the harder it gets for the cpu to deliver within timeframe. Once it can no longer deal with the task, audio dropouts, crackles will occur. To deal with the dropouts, you have to increase the buffer, giving your cpu more processing time.
Since it's always a balancing act, common practice is to use the least possible plugins when you are recording, so you can do it without noticeable delay, and increase the buffer for mixing, to give your cpu enough headroom for all the plugins you want to use.
Worth noting that this is critical for those who record stuff (midi or audio), because that's when you're the most sensitive to latency/delay (hit the key, hear the sound). If you're drawing midi or programming patterns it's hardly an issue. Also some people more sensitive than others. I'm good at 128 for recording, but I know many keyboard players who like it shorter. I rarely go above 512 even for mixing.
I think 1024 requirement is too high, but with this type of instrument it's not necessarily a dealbreaker because there are no sharp transients, well defined notes etc, so few milliseconds won't be noticeable.

Ah, I see. So is the buffer size that's set occupied in RAM?

I think I'll try 512 before going straight to 1024. My guess is that the Fundamental app isn't quite as efficient with resources as some of the more mature iOS apps we're used to.

skiphunt

@Carnbot said:
I can confirm the sound cutting out sometimes, on the vintage model. Then if I switch to pure engine the sound works, but switching back to vintage doesn't work and the vintage model won't sound again until I reload the AU.

Ah! Gotcha. Didn't consider that one. I've mostly been using the vintage setting. Will play with pure to see if it's more reliable. thx

Ailerom

@Bon_Tempi said:

• super clumsy „knobs“ for the 8 oscillators ... impossible to „adjust“ them while having the app making sound without making unwanted jumps in the frequency of the oscillator

Sadly this crappy GUI behavior is on the desktop as well. Every know has a different grab point. So if you tap in the middle of some you are good to go. Other jump up as the grab point is at the bottom. That behavior combined with the many issues people have and the possibility the developer is not concerned about it is pretty shithouse. If I could go back I'd refuse to buy it just to vote with my money. But sadly, as @Gavinski said I like it more than I hate it.

Also, it may be worth contacting them about issues. I am not just an iPad user so this experience will turn me off the company as a whole. Whatever else they do, that could have been of interest to me in the desktop domain certainly isn't now.

enkaytee

@enkaytee said:

@Gavinski said:

You also forgot to mention that the mpe is not working properly by the way. Unless anyone can show me a video of two notes held on any controller other than a sensel morph, with one finger holding one pitch while the other clearly does one large pitch bend up and then down. @Bon_Tempi

After a couple of hours of intensive fiddling with Fundamental and a Sensel Morph with a custom Buchla overlay (the devs recommended MPE controller) I think I can categorically say that single note pitch bend (which equates to frequency changes in Fundamental language) DOESN'T work. No matter how I set up the MPE parameters in the app any movement on the x axis of a key that triggers an oscillator (assigned to pitch bend on the Morph) results in a change in frequency on multiple oscillators.

Still love the sounds that I can wring out of it, but the continuing instability, UI problems and preset structure (or lack of it!) is taking a bit of the shine off...

If anyone's still interested (and I don't blame you if you're not) I've discovered that MPE pitch bend on a single oscillator will work - the x axis sensitivity needs to be pumped up (3 is good) and the PBend parameter at 0 to really make this work but it does. The PBend setting doesn't affect the range for a single oscillator, but how many other oscillators are affected by the bend action and that's where I was going wrong...

Gavinski

X axis sensitivity？Is that a morph setting Nige？

But great observation that pitch bend needs to be set to zero in Fundamental. This is working now on my seaboard.

Pitch bend range surely does reflect pitch bend, it is not about the number of oscillators affected because a) it says it affects range in the manual and b) there are 8 oscillators, not 6 or 7 😂. But anyway, at least finay it is possible to get per note pitch bend on a seaboard, even though they are very shallow bends, and it doesn't work on higher range settings. Good sleuthing on your part! @enkaytee

enkaytee

@Gavinski said:
X axis sensitivity？Is that a morph setting Nige？

But great observation that pitch bend needs to be set to zero in Fundamental. This is working now on my seaboard.

Pitch bend range surely does reflect pitch bend, it is not about the number of oscillators affected because a) it says it affects range in the manual and b) there are 8 oscillators, not 6 or 7 😂. But anyway, at least finay it is possible to get per note pitch bend on a seaboard, even though they are very shallow bends, and it doesn't work on higher range settings. Good sleuthing on your part! @enkaytee

The sensitivity is that tiny little figure alongside the MPE assignment - they are individually controlled by cc28 - 29 and switch sensitivity in the order 1-2-3-0-1/3-1/2. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any other way of changing them! Even more bizarrely, the custom Morph Buchla overlay only has 2 of the ccs mapped to pads. There are so many inconsistencies in this bl**dy app...!

Gavinski

Ah those! Yeah, major fiddle to set up and very unclear from the manual what they do

Gavinski

@enkaytee said:

@Gavinski said:
X axis sensitivity？Is that a morph setting Nige？

But great observation that pitch bend needs to be set to zero in Fundamental. This is working now on my seaboard.

Pitch bend range surely does reflect pitch bend, it is not about the number of oscillators affected because a) it says it affects range in the manual and b) there are 8 oscillators, not 6 or 7 😂. But anyway, at least finay it is possible to get per note pitch bend on a seaboard, even though they are very shallow bends, and it doesn't work on higher range settings. Good sleuthing on your part! @enkaytee

The sensitivity is that tiny little figure alongside the MPE assignment - they are individually controlled by cc28 - 29 and switch sensitivity in the order 1-2-3-0-1/3-1/2. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any other way of changing them! Even more bizarrely, the custom Morph Buchla overlay only has 2 of the ccs mapped to pads. There are so many inconsistencies in this bl**dy app...!

I don't see in tbe parameters how to map to these sensitivity scales. Can u explain?

Carnbot

@Gavinski to change it you just have to send CC 28 and CC29 to the app to cycle through them. A bit annoying, you should be able to change in the gui as well tbh

Gavinski

It's crazy the hoops this makes you jump through.

Just to the app, not actually to any specific parameters? I don't understand perhaps. Normally cc messages need to be sent somewhere specific, not just to the app. I can't find parameters for these
@Carnbot.

Carnbot

@Gavinski said:
Just to the app, not actually to any specific parameters? I don't understand perhaps. Normally cc messages need to be sent somewhere specific, not just to the app. I can't find parameters for these.

no just to the app, like you would a midi keyboard, in this case an MPE one, it's so that you can change it in a performance.
But you can use something like Xequence pads to do it.

I don't think he's included a specific AU parameter to change it.

enkaytee

@Gavinski said:
It's crazy the hoops this makes you jump through.

Just to the app, not actually to any specific parameters? I don't understand perhaps. Normally cc messages need to be sent somewhere specific, not just to the app. I can't find parameters for these
@Carnbot.

It's cc28, 29 and 30 on Channel 1 - according to the pad map on the Morph

Carnbot

It makes sense, it's there to be changed in real time like an instrument so that's why it's specific CC messages.
Maybe it was an oversight to miss that as an AU parameter, as there seems to be a parameter for most things

oceansinspace

Yo, thanks for reminding me to droneo again! IT was in one of those hidden folders you know, for no reason I stopped using it. After using fundamental this is like paradise actually! Cup of tea to droneo and I cant even imagine midi in that.... it is so deep ahhh! Also it has the pitch illusions I sought and were so good sounding I was just like how did I forget this app@Cheers

Pierre118

Sended 2 e-mails the last weeks but no reply at all. Not my style, but just requested and got a refund.

Gavinski

I also had no reply to my last emails.... Pity

Ailerom

@Gavinski said:
I also had no reply to my last emails.... Pity

Is it worth emailing Hainbach?

Gavinski

I have had some discussion with him yes

Gavinski

It's really up to SonicLab though, that's the developer

Ailerom

I just thought his reputation might be on the line to some extent and he may want to exert some pressure on his partner in this project.

Gavinski

I can't really act as a middle man here, everyone involved cares about the project, I don't think that's the issue. Maybe just there are things that are hard to fix. Remember it is a port from desktop. Anyway, I've certainly more than done my part and am quite tired of the whole thing... It's a great but flawed app and I think it's likely to stay that way. I've given up on trying to get things fixed here and am moving on. But definitely it's up to each buyer and user of the app to decide what to do it they are dissatisfied.

Ailerom

That's fair. Was more of a general statement aimed at anyone that would like to see some support.

Svetlovska

@Gavinski : thanks for all your efforts here, totally understand why you’ve had enough!

FWIW, personally I’m happy enough with it not to want a refund, since, not in any sense being a ‘performer’ all I need is for it to do it’s drone thing (reasonably) reliably inside AUM, as a complement to/alter for Droneo, and as a ‘set and forget’ basis for experimentation.

I’m currently enjoying running a sample and hold oscillator from MIDILFOs on oscillator one in harmonic mode to generate unpredictable noises, and taking the output through some wave folding and reverb to get something close to the bent out of shape soloing guitar noises (by Robert Fripp) that Bowie used on It’s No Game from the Scary Monsters album:

(The tone, not the genius musicality of it, that is , as my effort clearly demonstrates! :

I had similar fun with equally flawed apps before, and expect I will again.

The saddest thing is that the negative feedback, experience and likely resulting poor sales are probably going to be sour enough that neither the dev nor Hainbach will wish to risk reputation and resources on IOS in the future, which will be the greater loss.

I would have loved for this to have been a soar away success, if only to have encouraged Hainbach and other dev collaborators to develop more ‘test equipment’ /experimental style apps for our platform. I now can’t see that happening, sadly.

oceansinspace

I think its clear that there needed to be better beta testers (like gav and samu). Also our feedback is clearly targeted at making it the best possible and not just dissing it. I think Hainbach won't have control for some legal bs or he would care more that the update is in the works. IF not I need to find midi learn as im really tired of the bottom sliders!