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For like an extra dollar or two, you can future proof your rig investment by buying the desktop version on Overloud, If the rig you want is on sale.
The twin is on sale at the Overloud site
Can you buy individual rigs without purchasing the $200 desktop base product?
That’s how they get you. On desktop you have to at least buy one of the bundles like Rock or funk, you don’t necessarily need the full. But that’s how you get the “Rig Player”. On iOS it comes free with the app. Something worth considering when we say the iOS rigs are relatively overpriced compared to desktop version.
I checked out the math:
Funk Bundle $79 for desktop use
ChopTones Fend Twin65 $19 for Desktop use
ChopTones Fend Twin65 (after investing in TH-U IOS w/ a bundle to get rig player) $1
It's a $100 path that adds desktop capability to your studio. And then the GAS would take over and you'll end up wishing you'd just spent $200 on the FULL version. So, plan accordingly. I'm going to stick with what I own until @flo26 demo's the Fend65 iRig
and makes me want it.
Correct. But I haven’t even bought the desktop software yet. Just the rigs for the desktop. Thus “future proofing”
Curiously, I ended up with an Mac Mini M1 sooner than I thought I would. Now I have rigs for it in the future — if I decide to go in that direction
I did not do this for all of my rigs but for most of them. I wish I had started earlier and that’s why I am sharing this approach
For the price difference, in my opinion, it’s a no-brainer
Often times those desktop bundles are $49 making it all more appealing, but you still have to buy each rig individually to get the $1 iOS counterparts. It all adds up quick. Now the amps sims have their cabs with loadable IRs, there’s plenty to play with without resorting to Rig GAS. It comes down to someone wanting a specific amp from their past or an amp they can’t afford in real life, all in a Kemper like execution. If I had to stop at 5 rigs it would have to be Fender Tremolux and Bassman, Mesa Boogie MarkV, BHS Soldano, and a 30 way tie for the 5th spot. Perhaps the ‘65 Twin, or the Fried Betty, or Tone Impera.
You can, but unlike on iOS, you will have no way to play them on the desktop without an additional purchase.
Or take this list and watch for sales. If you get the FULL IOS or Desktop you won't need any rigs for at least 2 weeks while to try everything you get in the FULL package.
Now SWAM is working on me to get 5-10 instruments for $20 a pop.
And StaffPad has it's hooks in my psyche for more percussion and horns and strings and
woodwinds and harp and...
Maybe I should sell something physical. "Downsizing". Are there still fools out there buying
old physical stuff... "vintage" junk.
Whatcha got? My wife is really gonna love this. 200 percent mark up for “vintage” classification. technically the 1970 Bassman “Rig” is vintage no?
I learned this lesson the hard way. Never sell anything you love. I'm down to about 8 guitars and 4 synth/keyboards that I love.
I'll just keep looking for ways to get more gift cards.
Hours were spent with the new Fender Twin, comparing it to the other Rigs. Also loading IRs into the new IR loader.
The twin is very very good. My favorite sounds were the very first preset in the preset bank, and the very last capture in the capture bank. I was using a guitar I built with Mojotone quiet coils, which are basically humbuckers masquerading as single coils, but they are excellent and stratty. I wouldn’t pick the Twin for distorted sounds, the captures with a tube screamer were costly, but the ones with a rat were very good. it’s a good clean amp with plenty of life. That being said, I went back to the Bassman after and I am still convinced it’s the best rig in the collection. That 1970 Bassman has Fender tone, balance, hairy balls, and vintage flair too. The Tremolux has the jangle and beauty. Both have incredible sounding overdrive and break capability. More so than the twin. I would probably place the Twin third on my list of Fenders, tied with the Edge. The Super Reverb is definitely darker than all of them. The Edge is a hybrid of a tweed and a Vox, it’s modern, and very very good. The Princeton would be last on my list, it’s the driest. Fried Betty has a great sound with balls in the mids. MarkV tweed channel has amazing response and dynamics. Tone impera gets the glassy clank of a Strat really well. So much great Fender type tone to choose from.
I need someone to A/B the exact same th-u amp with the exact same IR loaded in th-u and then in Thafknar. Make sure that the Thafknar gain is lowered so the volume is exactly the same as in th-u. And th-u IR loader tweaks (respire/lpf) turned off or at least experimented with. I’m preferring the sound of the IR through Thafknar, there is more bass and lower mids, and more warm pulsating life. I think in Thafknar it’s the unaltered IR in all its fidelity, whereas in th-u it is cpu optimized with the new tech and sounds “brighter” and “thinner”, not necessarily worse, but definitely different. And this is a cause for concern. IRs in Thafknar appear to be richer. Someone test this.
Thanks for the typically exquisite descriptive review/comparison, @JoyceRoadStudios!
As usual, you’re able to extract the subtle nuances of the various rigs and determine the intricacies that make some much better than others.
I’m so thankful to you, McD, espiegel123, and many others who have spent a great deal of time (and monetary investment) to separate the winners from the losers in the vastly complex web of Overloud offerings.
I’m still waiting for the first “real” sale on Th-u products, but when it occurs, I’ll know precisely which products to purchase thank to the forum!
Oh yeah, big thanks to Flo, too!
Where the heck is that guy?!?!?!?
I agree in that assessment. It’s good but I like Thafknar better, and it’s not to say a I won’t use IR in THU, I will.
Yeah absolutely, I think it’s great, and now being able to save your own guitar rig set ups with your own IRs loaded inside the app, it’s huge. Certainly makes th-u THE guitar rig universe app for live applications. It sounds a lot better than Bias and Ge Labs, and I don’t see amplitube 5 on the iOS horizon yet. Bias really lacks tightness and definition in the lower mids, GE Labs is a big step up but to my ears always has a weird digital tail. As it is I’ve been recording music with th-u presets even without my Ownhammers, with great results. Nembrini of course are the single amp masterpieces, magical with Thafknar. But I’m still hot for th-u and all that it offers. The rigs are the closest thing we have to Kemper on iOS.
My only caveat is that impulse responses are meant to be used unaltered, I think. As far as I know Thafknar is just the vessel bringing them to us this way, and the results speak for themselves. Perhaps people will prefer the optimized brighter IR sound in the th-u loader, but I think that cpu optimization makes those IRs closer in quality to what’s already pre-loaded in th-u and Nembrini, so good but not great. The magic I felt and heard was running Nembrini Bst and th-u Fender rigs through Thafknar with Ownhammer Zilla and Vox IRs. I appreciate all the tweaks the th-u loader offers (rear, 45 degree, mixing, lpf/hpf, respire), but it all needs to add up to what a high cpu convolution app sounds like. Maybe it’s possible, I’m hopeful.
So I've been using the free (upgraded) version (iOS) for a few months now and am about to buy the Full iOS version (I am trying the desktop Full demo, but using desktop means rebooting into Windows).
Does the iOS Full version have all of the same features that the desktop Full version has?
Arg... leaving Linux for Windows is like Leaving Las Vegas for LA. (I like the alliteration).
IR loading was a big difference but that's been narrowed with the new update. All Amp and FX models and iRig IAP's are identical. I think @JoyceRoadStudios has both products but maybe on a Mac , if that matters.
Be aware that most find that the amp sims are not as good as the rigs -- and the rigs are not included in the full bundle. Even if you get that bundle, you need to purchase rigs separately. Depending on what you want to get out of TH-U, you might find buying rigs you want more useful than getting the full bundle.
I love my favorite OverLoud amp... no Rigs come close to it. I bought FULL to get a few more amps and the Distortion/Overdrive FX'es after getting the "All FX'es except Distortions" bundle. I discovered my favorite amp by listening critically to the @flo26 video that demos
all the clean Amp options:
In the FULL package you can build personal rigs from multiple amps, FX and audio routing units. Send the low end to a dry Fender Bassman and the Highs to a Twin Reverb that get extra reverb treatment or get split out to stereo.
I find 3-5 great presets in most of the Top Rigs and everything in the Rig is editable too
for additional customization.
The reason OverLoud has this 2 Tier strategy us due to the world of Guitar Hardware:
Amps and stompboxes
Hardware Modelers (Neural DSP, Fractal, UAD, etc)
The new hardware tier of hardware modelers created a new software vendor tier like
ChopTones, LRS and BHS. I find the OverLoad Rig products to be lackluster.
Many of the new hardware modelers can be connected to your hardware and auto-model it
in a few seconds. So, you can gig with the tones of your Marshall Stack with vintage tone pedals and FX with only one unit plugged into the PA.
Indeed. The desktop version works in a virtual machine, but my audio interface doesn't.
Very good, thanks!
I did notice that in the desktop version, those rigs have an immediate good sound it is just uncanny - I was even finding myself enjoying a SS Peavey - something I never thought I would find. Maybe they will come up with a "FULL" version for all of the rigs someday?
This brings up one of the biggest reasons I like THU-U over everything else I have tried - almost all of their presets sound good right out of the box. I have always (in 3D and in virtual) had a frustrating time dialing in amps, so having presets is a huge advantage so a sonically-challenged person such as myself.
I was just about to purchase a package of these, but I couldn't decide between rock & funk (the American mentioned at some point in thread no longer seemed to be available). Then I realized I could buy one offs and was trying to narrow it down to 3-4 amps/cabs. THEN saw that there was a rig section with what I could only guess are presets based on amps you've already bought. By then, I just decided to play through my amp. I'm happy.
I'm sure I'm not the first person to complain about this if I were to read the thread. But damn, never has a company so effectively prevented me from spending money on their products. "Ok, if these sound as good as reputation, I'll just drop for the whole bundle" "Ok, maybe just a single bundle to have some fun with tonight" "Ok, maybe just a couple of the amps I know and like" "Ok, I quit". Nice job, jackasses
Wow. Intense moment I’ve just been having. I think my previous post may have been my first time experiencing the age/technology gap. I fear many more are to come.
Oh, no worries, Oat. Their myriad offerings were confusing to virtually everyone — except the Overloud Overlords.
I think McD is right. He bought virtually everything, but has found the Choptones rigs are best in class — and the most economical.
Like you, I've yet to purchase any of the Overloud products. I'm waiting for a serious sale of the likes they offer frequently on their desktop offerings.
In the meantime, I saving all the recommendations from our forum guitar elders — waiting to pounce when the price is right!
I’m with you, I love the presets in TH-U, and I’m a huge fan of the app as a whole, both sims and rigs. Hoping I can shed some more light for you and for others.
I don’t have the desktop version and I only use iOS for everything. I’ve read the manual for both and the two versions are basically the same, with a few small differences. The desktop version has an input gain knob inside the program. On iOS you have to set it either in the DAW or on your interface. The desktop version also has an undo/redo button. I’ve asked for both of these features and the devs said they’re coming.
The IR loader on desktop is a bit more feature rich, specifically it has the “accuracy” setting which keeps the original IR in tact in the bass frequencies. The new IR loader on iOS is cpu optimized and actually the bass and lower mids on imported IRs could be better. But it’s very good.
The amazing thing is that besides these few differences and some visual differences, the desktop and iOS version is the same. You have great midi programability, IR loading which is huge, and the same amps, cabs, and rigs.
Regarding the sims vs rigs question: the amps sims are good, especially the licensed ones from Brunetti, Randall, DVMark. There are plenty of amps in the collection I could do without. The sims use cabinet emulations rather than IRs, but they’ve been recently remastered in an update and are quite decent. The thing is that we’re talking about comparing them to other sims like Bias, Amplitube, GE Labs. To my ears th-u is the best of them, but you’re still using cabinet emulation. The Nembrini amps use built in IRs. I still think the full is a good purchase, especially in a sale for $80, because you’re getting the full collection of pedals and fx with it, and those are stellar, $50 value on their own. So for what you get the full is a good deal, and you can now load your own IRs into the cab emulations.
Now the Rig amps you can buy separately are more like Kemper. They are based on real life amps and modeled after capturing them in a plethora of settings. They use IRs. Again this is different from Nembrini, which is an emulation plus an IR. Th-u rigs are emulations based on a capture of the actual amp, Nembrini is an “analog” modeled emulation of an amp. It’s different.
The th-u rigs are excellent, and there are a lot of great real life amps to choose from. There is no other tech on iOS like this, besides maybe the GE labs feature that let’s you capture your own amp and make a rig from it. So if we’re talking SIMS, Nembrini has the edge because they’re great models using IRs. But if we’re talking Kemper style, th-u all the way. Hope that helps. If you read the manual for desktop and iOS versions you’ll find that they’re virtually the same. iOS has just a few trimmings to maintain lower cpu levels, but the devs have proven that they keep filling out the iOS version to be like the desktop version. The IR loader in the new update was a big step. Frankly, I think many people can be happy with the full pack, great presets and much improved remastered cabs. But the rigs are next level. It’s the Fender/Mesa/Marshall/etc. amp profile in your living room that you’ve always wanted, rather than an approximation of an amp and called Funther instead of Fender or whatever. Both routes in th-u have merit, and it can get expensive quick. I recommend two routes. One bundle like Funk that gives you some pedals, and 3-5 rigs. Or the full pack that gives you all pedals and some great sims, and 3-5 rigs.
As @McD mentioned, the Rigs that are made in partnership with Choptones and BHS are the best. The rigs that are “th-u” branded are not as good.
I know you’re confused, and it’s ok to be confused. Rest assured that saving your money is never a “bad” option no matter what.
The American is a Rig collection and is always available. It’s a separate purchase from the full or the bundles. It’s based on real actual amps that they captured, like a Kemper profiling.
Then I realized I could buy one offs and was trying to narrow it down to 3-4 amps/cabs.
Don’t do it, ala carte is not a good deal. Even a bundle like Funk is a better deal.
THEN saw that there was a rig section with what I could only guess are presets based on amps you've already bought. By then, I just decided to play through my amp. I'm happy.
They’re not presets of amps you already bought. The rigs are a complete separate purchase and don’t exist in the sim collections. They’re Kemper style profiles of real amps, not emulations like bias or amplitube. They use built in IRs. Buying a rig is like buying that amp. It is completely separate from the sims in the full or other bundles. The big difference is that each Rig offers you anywhere between 40 and 300 profiles or presets of that amp. The sims are more like an amp head from scratch. But both can be tweaked. The sims each have a different look. But the rigs all get loaded into the same looking rig player. It’s confusing I know. But think of an amp sim as a any amp in bias or amplitube or ge labs, just better sounding. and think of a rig as Kemper profiles.
@JoyceRoadStudios
Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate you taking the time.
I got the Gain Stage Vintage Clean after @wim and @JoyceRoadStudios mentioned it. Man, it is good!.
I don’t known what to make of it, to me it doesn’t sound like an amp emulation. More like a “put your guitar in a space and make it sound alive” thing. The mono to stereo is wonderful, realistic and subtle. The spaces don’t sound like reverb, it’s like distancing yourself physically from the source.
I did an A/B with cali reverb (low gain input) and they’re so different. The Cali sounds like an amp, the Vintage Clean doesn’t, and I love that. I play CGB guitar and it gives it some lush and space but keeps more of the oroginal sound and character, whereas amp emulations masquerade or alter the original sound in a more obvious way. Actually, it sounds more like what you hear of the CGB when you’re not plugging it in. It gives it back the body and character I loose when i record it with the jack. Sort of like a really nicely placed mic with pre.
Love it! 🙏🤟
Now I actually know what they mean by a "Rig", thank you for this explanation it makes perfect sense now!
Exactly! I think you hit the nail on the head, while the Gain Stage Vintage Clean is marketed as a guitar amp, it really sounds like magical preamp.
That’s not to say that you need to add anything after it like an impulse response. You don’t. Guitar amp emulations recreate the whole stage of a pre and power amp and a cabinet etc etc, but the GSVC turns your guitar into beauty while offering settings for spacial variation. While they sound quite different and have different applications, I think you would agree that Nembrini PSA1000 and GSVC both have that preamp type of sound, it’s honky and kind of puckery ripe, drenched in warm harmonics and saturation. I think what you’re trying to describe is how GSVC puts the guitar in a space, it is quite hard to describe. A regular amp sim is much easier to describe.
GSVC is described as not being modeled after any amp and being its own design, but when I play it I think to my self “That is my amp, it is my beautiful secret, and my amp is called BlueMangoo”. On top of the stellar clean sound, the light crunch presets are also fantastic. But GSVC is not really the kind of thing you need to add fx and pedals and impulse responses too, it doesn’t really shine like that. To pair it in a chain with other stuff you really need to turn most of its settings off, then what’s the point. It already has everything built inside it do what it does best. it’s captivating and a great mic pre kind of approach to a guitar sound.