Why is ambient super popular (for iOS Producers)?

dendy

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real.

Gavinski

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

It doesn't surprise me that the people who are most critical and dismissive here tend to be those who don't post their own stuff. They're possibly (hopefully?) as self critical of themselves as they are of others. Or they think they're the dogs bollocks but deep inside know they're not really so fear putting themselves out there.

jwmmakerofmusic

@Grandbear said:

This piece of art is title "Immortal Comedian", since these banana plugs never rot. 😂

Danny_Mammy

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

i don't think people are saying it's easy to make 'good' ambient. More that it's a lot more approachable to make than say learning a guitar/piano or understanding the music theory required for certain musical genres.

let face it, most music made is mediocre regardless if its punk or Classical.

Slush

@dendy said:

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real.

Absolutely. And the same goes for those ‘my six year old kid could do that kind of painting’ comments.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

drez

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

i don't think people are saying it's easy to make 'good' ambient. More that it's a lot more approachable to make than say learning a guitar/piano or understanding the music theory required for certain musical genres.

let face it, most music made is mediocre regardless if its punk or Classical.

I'll have to disagree with you about the target audience for my post. I'm talking about the Dunning-Kruger folks. They are alive and well in this thread. I believe they are missing the essential parts of making "good ambient" and assuming it's just doing a few things that make it "good enough". I find it no different creating mediocre anything, no matter the style. The complexities in some forms can be how difficult it is to arrange all the parts in an orchestral piece, or figuring out what articulations you want.

In ambient, imo, the really good ambient is all about sound design. The magic isn't in the playing of many notes that are some super complex chord structure and resolution. It's about the sound itself and how it fits in the sparseness of it all and creating holes for it to fit in. The skillset is about "making sound that is interesting and letting that shine". Not everybody has this skill. They might think they do or could but they aren't actually doing it. The simplest sounding things can be the most complex to create because its the talent of being able to make something that seems simple sound soooo good.

Danny_Mammy

@drez said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

i don't think people are saying it's easy to make 'good' ambient. More that it's a lot more approachable to make than say learning a guitar/piano or understanding the music theory required for certain musical genres.

let face it, most music made is mediocre regardless if its punk or Classical.

I'll have to disagree with you about the target audience for my post. I'm talking about the Dunning-Kruger folks. They are alive and well in this thread. I believe they are missing the essential parts of making "good ambient" and assuming it's just doing a few things that make it "good enough". I find it no different creating mediocre anything, no matter the style. The complexities in some forms can be how difficult it is to arrange all the parts in an orchestral piece, or figuring out what articulations you want.

In ambient, imo, the really good ambient is all about sound design. The magic isn't in the playing of many notes that are some super complex chord structure and resolution. It's about the sound itself and how it fits in the sparseness of it all and creating holes for it to fit in. The skillset is about "making sound that is interesting and letting that shine". Not everybody has this skill. They might think they do or could but they aren't actually doing it. The simplest sounding things can be the most complex to create because its the talent of being able to make something that seems simple sound soooo good.

everyone can have a go at ambient with some pretty instant results without any musical knowledge. that's how i read some of these posts.

drez

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

i don't think people are saying it's easy to make 'good' ambient. More that it's a lot more approachable to make than say learning a guitar/piano or understanding the music theory required for certain musical genres.

let face it, most music made is mediocre regardless if its punk or Classical.

I'll have to disagree with you about the target audience for my post. I'm talking about the Dunning-Kruger folks. They are alive and well in this thread. I believe they are missing the essential parts of making "good ambient" and assuming it's just doing a few things that make it "good enough". I find it no different creating mediocre anything, no matter the style. The complexities in some forms can be how difficult it is to arrange all the parts in an orchestral piece, or figuring out what articulations you want.

In ambient, imo, the really good ambient is all about sound design. The magic isn't in the playing of many notes that are some super complex chord structure and resolution. It's about the sound itself and how it fits in the sparseness of it all and creating holes for it to fit in. The skillset is about "making sound that is interesting and letting that shine". Not everybody has this skill. They might think they do or could but they aren't actually doing it. The simplest sounding things can be the most complex to create because its the talent of being able to make something that seems simple sound soooo good.

everyone can have a go at ambient with some pretty instant results without any musical knowledge. that's how i read some of these posts.

ok

Luxthor

Fixed!

michael_m

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:

@Danny_Mammy said:

@drez said:
What I find fascinating about people that say "it's easy to do ambient" and "my dog could do it" is that they never post their attempt at doing that for real. Please...post your ambient. If it's easy to crank out ambient that's as good as the most popular stuff, then please link your work here. I would love to hear how easy it is to do, how long it took, and the tools you used. If it's all just whatever drenched in reverb, then let us put that to the test so we can be amazed with some more great ambient.

i don't think people are saying it's easy to make 'good' ambient. More that it's a lot more approachable to make than say learning a guitar/piano or understanding the music theory required for certain musical genres.

let face it, most music made is mediocre regardless if its punk or Classical.

I'll have to disagree with you about the target audience for my post. I'm talking about the Dunning-Kruger folks. They are alive and well in this thread. I believe they are missing the essential parts of making "good ambient" and assuming it's just doing a few things that make it "good enough". I find it no different creating mediocre anything, no matter the style. The complexities in some forms can be how difficult it is to arrange all the parts in an orchestral piece, or figuring out what articulations you want.

In ambient, imo, the really good ambient is all about sound design. The magic isn't in the playing of many notes that are some super complex chord structure and resolution. It's about the sound itself and how it fits in the sparseness of it all and creating holes for it to fit in. The skillset is about "making sound that is interesting and letting that shine". Not everybody has this skill. They might think they do or could but they aren't actually doing it. The simplest sounding things can be the most complex to create because its the talent of being able to make something that seems simple sound soooo good.

everyone can have a go at ambient with some pretty instant results without any musical knowledge. that's how i read some of these posts.

That’s true of almost any kind of pop/dance music too though. Just buy a bunch of commercial loops and stack them gegether.

Grandbear

@Luxthor said:
Fixed!

😅 just a few more colors and we can build a Warhol/Marilyn-esque thing. That in turn may lead us to the cover of The Velvet Underground & Nico.

hghon

@Luxthor said:
Fixed!

Yea I need your permission to use that as album art 😄

Luxthor

@hghon said:

@Luxthor said:
Fixed!

Yea I need your permission to use that as album art 😄

Ask @Grandbear he is the author, I guess. 😅

Grandbear

@Luxthor said:

@hghon said:

@Luxthor said:
Fixed!

Yea I need your permission to use that as album art 😄

Ask @Grandbear he is the author, I guess. 😅

I hereby grant use and abuse of the original and all derived works for the fair price of one (1) banana, non-mushy.

JeffChasteen

@bygjohn said:

@HotStrange said:

@day_empire said:

@HotStrange said:

@OnfraySin said:

@dendy said:
Nope, Jackson Pollock, one of greatest US painters.. it is good to know context. Abstract art is art too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock

+US Paint dirtyer. Alcoholic to the limit.

As for visual art, one of my first peak experiences with a painting was a huge canvas I saw in my early teens in Manchester City Art Gallery, I think it was part of a temporary exhibition, and I don’t know the name of the artist or the title of the piece, but it was a huge expanse of bright green with a few different coloured semicircles floating in it, and I was transfixed. It filled your field of view, and the semicircles seemed to move after you’d looked at it for a while. Made a huge impression on me, much more so than many more “normal” paintings, and led to a love of abstract art in general, likewise sculpture. Rembrandt and Michaelangelo are great, but I prefer Bridget Riley and Barbara Hepworth. YMMV.

I feel you so much on this.
The first Pollock that I ever saw was in the local museum. I was 9 or 10 and was just overwhelmed by the scale and vibrancy— the physicality of the thing! It was exciting.

Luxthor

For me, “Eyes in the Heat” is the best Pollock painting; I could spend hours watching it in a meditative way. And I’m mostly an impressionist and formal classical art lover.

I will always defend freedom of expression. Times like when Klimt paintings were burned because they were not conventional should never happen again. Police shut down concerts because music was not good for the ears of those who were not even listening to it.

Gavinski

@JeffChasteen said:

@bygjohn said:

@HotStrange said:

@day_empire said:

@HotStrange said:

@OnfraySin said:

@dendy said:
Nope, Jackson Pollock, one of greatest US painters.. it is good to know context. Abstract art is art too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock

+US Paint dirtyer. Alcoholic to the limit.

As for visual art, one of my first peak experiences with a painting was a huge canvas I saw in my early teens in Manchester City Art Gallery, I think it was part of a temporary exhibition, and I don’t know the name of the artist or the title of the piece, but it was a huge expanse of bright green with a few different coloured semicircles floating in it, and I was transfixed. It filled your field of view, and the semicircles seemed to move after you’d looked at it for a while. Made a huge impression on me, much more so than many more “normal” paintings, and led to a love of abstract art in general, likewise sculpture. Rembrandt and Michaelangelo are great, but I prefer Bridget Riley and Barbara Hepworth. YMMV.

I feel you so much on this.
The first Pollock that I ever saw was in the local museum. I was 9 or 10 and was just overwhelmed by the scale and vibrancy— the physicality of the thing! It was exciting.

Same with Rothko. When I first saw one in the Tate Modern in my 20s, it was an amazing, highly memorable experience. It's nothing like looking at one in a history of art book. From the point of view of someone who has studied the history of art - and sorry, but I am going to make a statement that I think is judgemental but also factual - many people who don't like and understand abstract art are generally uninformed. They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

belldu

@Gavinski said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@bygjohn said:

@HotStrange said:

@day_empire said:

@HotStrange said:

@OnfraySin said:

@dendy said:
Nope, Jackson Pollock, one of greatest US painters.. it is good to know context. Abstract art is art too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock

+US Paint dirtyer. Alcoholic to the limit.

As for visual art, one of my first peak experiences with a painting was a huge canvas I saw in my early teens in Manchester City Art Gallery, I think it was part of a temporary exhibition, and I don’t know the name of the artist or the title of the piece, but it was a huge expanse of bright green with a few different coloured semicircles floating in it, and I was transfixed. It filled your field of view, and the semicircles seemed to move after you’d looked at it for a while. Made a huge impression on me, much more so than many more “normal” paintings, and led to a love of abstract art in general, likewise sculpture. Rembrandt and Michaelangelo are great, but I prefer Bridget Riley and Barbara Hepworth. YMMV.

I feel you so much on this.
The first Pollock that I ever saw was in the local museum. I was 9 or 10 and was just overwhelmed by the scale and vibrancy— the physicality of the thing! It was exciting.

Same with Rothko. When I first saw one in the Tate Modern in my 20s, it was an amazing, highly memorable experience. It's nothing like looking at one in a history of art book. From the point of view of someone who has studied the history of art - and sorry, but I am going to make a statement that I think is judgemental but also factual - many people who don't like and understand abstract art are generally uninformed. They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

My wife found that Rothko exhibition to be highly memorable too. She sat there for ages just staring at the paintings. She described the colours bleeding into each other, and pulsing in the dim light. An entirely different way of experiencing art as opposed to the normal 10 seconds I give a painting when walking past in a gallery!

Simon

@Gavinski said:
They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

But Gav, you don't need to know anything about Postmodernism to know how terrible it is! <----- is that a postmodernist attitude?

It raises an interesting question: does not knowing much about a subject render your opinion invalid?

I know nothing about fox hunting or cock fighting but I have an opinion about them...

Slush

@Simon said:

@Gavinski said:
They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

But Gav, you don't need to know anything about Postmodernism to know how terrible it is! <----- is that a postmodernist attitude?

It raises an interesting question: does not knowing much about a subject render your opinion invalid?

I know nothing about fox hunting or cock fighting but I have an opinion about them...

It could help to have some knowledge. You could say that the alien abduction phenomenon is just a practical joke, until you start digging in and discover the depths and complexities of this subject. It can help.
But hey, I hate bull fighting too.

Gavinski

@Simon said:

@Gavinski said:
They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

But Gav, you don't need to know anything about Postmodernism to know how terrible it is! <----- is that a postmodernist attitude?

It raises an interesting question: does not knowing much about a subject render your opinion invalid?

I know nothing about fox hunting or cock fighting but I have an opinion about them...

Haha, this thread really is getting derailed. Well, I think informed and considered opinion is generally better than uninformed and unconsidered, don’t you? I know I wouldn’t want an uninformed and unreflective ‘doctor’ giving me medical advice. The fox hunting analogy is not particularly apt, I think, because you don’t need to know much about the technicalaities of the sport to have an opinion that it is wrong to hunt animals for sport. But someone who has an informed and considered opinion on the topic would likely be more able to persuade others of the validity of their opinion than an uninformed debater would.

If I knew that there was a synth called the Juno-60, and then tried to persuade you that it was crap, and you later found out I knew nothing about synthesis, had never seen or played a Juno, didn’t know how it worked etc, you would hardly give much weight to my view, would you?

tahiche

Ambient is a lazy musician’s bachelor degree, spending time on this forum instead of making music, that’s a doctorate 🙋🏻‍♂️

HotStrange

@tahiche said:
Ambient is a lazy musician’s bachelor degree, spending time on this forum instead of making music, that’s a doctorate 🙋🏻‍♂️

Wow so we’re all PHDs?? Fantastic 📜 👨‍🎓

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Svetlovska

@tahiche : ah, but what about spending time on this forum, and making music? Oh, sorry, ‘low effort not-music’’ Asking for a friend.

klownshed

@Svetlovska said:
@tahiche : ah, but what about spending time on this forum, and making music? Oh, sorry, ‘low effort not-music’’ Asking for a friend.

That depends on whether you use a 'real' DAW or not to make ‘low effort not-music' with.

Slush

@Slush said:

@Simon said:

@Gavinski said:
They are also often the same people who rant about how terrible postmodernism is while knowing next to nothing about postmodernism.

But Gav, you don't need to know anything about Postmodernism to know how terrible it is! <----- is that a postmodernist attitude?

It raises an interesting question: does not knowing much about a subject render your opinion invalid?

I know nothing about fox hunting or cock fighting but I have an opinion about them...

It could help to have some knowledge. You could say that the alien abduction phenomenon is just a practical joke, until you start digging in and discover the depths and complexities of this subject. It can help.
But hey, I hate bull fighting too.

@Simon @Gavinski Sorry, I see I was replying on a post directed to Gavin

Svetlovska

Interesting point. So, is it morally better to make low effort non-music (aka ambient) with minimal effort in the quickest, dirtiest laziest way possible, say screen capping a random jam generated purely with random midi generators direct from the ipad, or worse to make the same noise after many hours toiling over individual stems in a separate laptop DAW? If an ambient track is made with real instruments, is it better than one which uses just software? If it was really, really hard to make the ambient piece, does that effort make it objectively better to listen to?

Asking for a troll.

P.s: this is what I posted to YouTube this morning. While reading the forum. Low effort? No effort, more like! Call that music? Where’s the craft? Where’s the skill? Retired old farts these days think the world owes them a living, etc. (contd. p23, Daily Mail)

Slush

@Svetlovska said:
Interesting point. So, is it morally better to make low effort non-music (aka ambient) with minimal effort in the quickest, dirtiest laziest way possible, say screen capping a random jam generated purely with random midi generators direct from the ipad, or worse to make the same noise after many hours toiling over individual stems in a separate laptop DAW? If an ambient track is made with real instruments, is it better than one which uses just software? If it was really, really hard to make the ambient piece, does that effort make it objectively better to listen to?

Asking for a troll.

P.s: this is what I posted to YouTube this morning. While reading the forum. Low effort? No effort, more like! Call that music? Where’s the craft? Where’s the skill? Retired old farts these days think the world owes them a living, etc. (contd. p23, Daily Mail)

I have been to parties where this kind of music would fit perfectly well!