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Apartheid is Fascism ( or: your crypto won’t save you when the jackboots come-a-marching).
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Sorry @NeuM, but I have come to the conclusion that there is no point giving you the benefit of the doubt. You see, you keep playing the same game. You don’t answer why one article about McCain sways you whereas a thousand stories, often with the evidence in Trump’s own words or voice, will not change your view one iota. You are a master cherry picker and, IMO, as @espiegel123 and others often say, you don’t respond to the challenges of others to your blanket statements… and perhaps even sway the opinions of others… rather you trudge inexorably on, throwing out more articles instead of standing in one place and fighting,
You would not score very highly in a college debate because, as was said before, it seems you don't do your own thinking or are truly willing to defend your points. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the denizens of this forum are very often excellent critical thinkers (much moreso than myself) with powers of persuasion by rational argument. The extremist playbook, and it’s many redirective techniques don’t gain much traction here. You, thus, change no viewpoints and end up merely being a foil for more incisive and honest minds.
@NeuM : Germany?
Far-right was not meant as a cheap shot. The positions that you have outlined yourself as having seem to align with positions that are right-wing.
I paid very close attention in the Trump years. I basically completely disagree with both your interpretation of the fact but also apparently what the facts are.
I know from past experience that nothing I could say would get you to reconsider any of your beliefs. I won't try. I speak out only because in places where extremism is not called out, it thrives. Where lies are allowed to stand uncontested, they are more likely to be accepted by others.
Good day.
Ouch. I don’t harbor any ill will toward you. I think your political positions are uninformed and colored by propaganda from all Left sources, which you seem to not recognize as propaganda. I provide opinions from BOTH Left and Right sources in an attempt to reach something closer to the truth of the matter. My providing the Rolling Stone article, which you seem to have ignored, indicates to me that you might be experiencing cognitive dissonance.
I don’t have any ill will against you either @NeuM. It just does not seem to be worth defending your participation and viewpoints anymore. Because you cannot help yourself it seems… just like in this post of yours. You say ouch, feel hurt, you quote all the reasons I find your thinking faulty but you don’t address one thing about what I said about your thinking other than platitudes about your consulting left and right sources equally… except the left sources are always propaganda and the right unassailable facts, it all has such a hollow ring.
I would also add that Mitch McConnell has flatly stated the republicans will offer no agenda or platform for the midterm elections. Just like in 2020 they are a party without a platform… or, rather, they are a party with a hidden agenda.
You didn’t say you don’t live in Germany, so that much is still not clear. If you don't live there, I must have misremembered something I thought you said on these threads before.
Far-right does not describe my position and I do not identify as “far-right”.
Try asking a person who currently or formerly lived in Venezuela or Cuba what they think of what is happening in the US today. Today. Not during President Trump’s term. They all say the US is fast becoming far more authoritarian and Communistic.
I will never hesitate to provide an honest source. And if the person or position I’m defending is problematic, I usually tend to acknowledge this. I’ve never pledged an oath to Donald Trump. Our system basically provides us with two bad choices at a time. That’s a big problem and it leaves no room for nuance.
And who is the arbiter of this “honest source” @NeuM. It seems it is always you. And, once again, you do not answer the challenge to your way of thinking… it’s always one more “honest” article.
Feel free to provide contrary sources. I’ve never discouraged this. Unless a person can cite sources, everything is just personal opinion. This is what a “good” reporter would do… well, it’s what good reporters USED TO DO. And I’m not even a reporter. I just happen to be an artist and musician who knows some things.
@NeuM Do you?
Do I what?
I'm keeping out of the main thrust of this thread but on this note this article is from 2017;
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/aug/08/rise-of-the-racist-robots-how-ai-is-learning-all-our-worst-impulses
and this one is more recent,
https://www.indy100.com/viral/online-bot-has-turned-racist-b1952316
Here's the link to the demo of the A.I
https://delphi.allenai.org/
Nothing more.
I’d be interested seeing in a detailed list of communist policies that are being enacted in the USA …
I heard that story before. The problem with Twitter and Facebook (among others) is they are flooded with Chinese government propagandists. Do some homework and look up the "Fifty Cent Army".
I've done the homework.
You can't blame the Chinese for everything.
Racism and sexism such as this existed long before the internet.
Accept it and move on.
If you had read the latter article you've would notice this,
" When one person inputted, “Being a white man Vs being a black woman”, the bot responded, “Being a white man is more morally acceptable than being a black woman.”
Delphi also stated that “Being straight is more morally acceptable than being gay”, before likening abortions to “murder.” "
which is in keeping with what Gavinski had found out for himself.
The thing is it's fascinating that an A.I can learn such things which says a lot for humans.
In regards to politics I've having those discussions elsewhere.
My comment was merely something of interest if anyone would be interested.
My take on political discourse.
Each of us has built and armored a world view. All politics becomes a defense against and a filter for information and actions that enhance or threaten that world view.
I'll list a few "High Castles of World View" and a brief thumbnail of it's beliefs.
LIBERTARIANS - all government is designed to thwart the freedoms of the capable.
EVANGELICALS - there is a end times that is imminent. Thankfully the unbelievers will receive the biblical justice foretold.
LIBERALS - all are created equal and resources should be distributed to insure the safety and welfare of all.
TRIBALISTS: Our culture and social cohesion is under attack from outsiders. Any means necessary to protect the traditions and welfare of our people is defensible and justified or all will be lost.
CAPITALISTS: Marketforces insure a meritocracy and is the best form of social order... Darwin's view of nature is the perfect analog for managing resources and wealth.
NATURALISTS: Save the planet and all it's denizens, species and eco-systems. No cost is too high to achieve this goal.
---- I'll stop here.
In my view political discourse changes very little. We collect the "facts" that advance our view and ignore as irrelevant any fact that threatens our view of a better social order.
Fox news
Breitbart
Q-Anon
CNN
MSNBC
KKK
Proud Boys
Social Democrats
Antifa
etc.
Filtering and managing to grow and monetize/evangelize a tribe.
There isn't centralized leadership. The tribe programs the values of the
media and it's goals. It's bottom up despite the widespread believe in
global conspiracies.
Once I accepted this view of tribal politics I started to understand why perfectly moral people could accept the rather strange views and habits of most presidents. Any leader that advances the cause of the tribe gets a complete pass on views and actions that are clearly immoral or illegal.
Trump's lack of empathy, Clinton's sexual appetites and morality, Reagan's hawkishness, etc. No facts can dislodge a true leader from his flock's admiration.
Anyway... carry on. Lock and load. It solves little but it does engage our deepest passions since the world is at stake.
"In coming".
Lately, I tend to ask questions to see if I can decide which tribe someone inhabits and I
avoid "poking the bear" since it only leads to conflict and disorder. This approach seems to fit well with the advice of most great religious leaders. "Do unto others."
There are few villains... most just want to fight for what they believe will protect themselves and those they love. Some seem capable of loving multitudes and some protect a small nuclear community and are well armed.
Cool track! Sorry to hear you are fighting the bug. How goes the recovery?
If Biden is extreme left some of us here are off the charts. Is there anything beyond the extreme?. @NeuM where so you put those that consider Biden as not even left?.
It’s funny how right wingers have no problem in loosely using the word “communist”. I’ve been called a communist plenty lately. The difference is that I don’t reply with “and you’re a fascist”. They’re just confused and misinformed.
@NeuM: i would suggest that you accept the possibility that people disagree with you not because they are not educated and don't know the facts but that they may have fundamentally different values from you. You consistently imply that "if you knew the facts that I know and you were smart, you would come to the same conclusions."
Your explanation for people having views to the left of you is that there is some impediment of their character or upbringing that prevents them from seeing things as they are.
When so many people (a majority or near majority) do not come to the same conclusions as you, I think it is important to accept the possibility that you might be wrong OR that a lot of people have fundamentally different values -- and that those people's values and beliefs deserve the same respect that you demand from them.
You take great umbrage if you feel that you have been insulted. When you say things (as you did to @LinearLineman ) like " I think your political positions are uninformed and colored by propaganda from all Left sources, which you seem to not recognize as propaganda. "
That is insulting. You are holding yourself as being more intelligent and better-informed. On one hand, you say something like 'everything is subjective' and then essentially tell us that if we disagree with you it is because we aren't capable of seeing some truth that you seem to believe without question.
Maybe, the people that disagree with you simply have fundamentally different views of what makes for a good society.
Perhaps, their views are just as legitimate and worthy of respect and consideration as yours -- even if you disagree with them.
@NeuM this…
“I just happen to be an artist and musician who knows some things.”
So I am asking you, and please be specific, what you “know” about…
1.Marjorie Taylor Greene
2.Paul Gosar
3. Ted Cruz
4. Matt Gaetz
5. Lauren Boebert
6. Matthew Cawthorne
Please, no articles.
Dude. Trump and these folks get the undying support of libertarians because they are blowing up the government and social norms they detest. Everything they do leads towards a desired end. They won't defend these individuals using facts. That's just a distraction from the important work. They support them as pawns in a greater campaign to create more freedom.
Oh, brother.
I knew someone would immediately cry "racism" or "xenophobia"! The Fifty Cent Army is a real thing and it is a massive online source of propaganda from the CHINESE GOVERNMENT. That has nothing to do with the Chinese people. Those are different things, just like the American people are not the US government at large.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
(Fifty Cent Army, also known as 50 Cent Party and wumao.)
Very true. You get a gold star.
My problem is I don't belong to a tribe - nobody will have me LOL!
In your list of extreme news sources you have to add the World Socialist Web Site (www.wsws.org). It is a classic.
Thank you for a great post.
Do I need to know something about these people? Why don't you tell me.
@McD, very rational of you, my dear. I think all you left out is that all of human endeavor from god to politics to money to human rights are totally made up narratives to push reality one way or another to satisfy the needs of individuals.This crystallized in my mind when I read Sapiens by Yuval Harari.
I recommend it to anyone who wants a better understanding of how all this dysfunction came to be.
You're not too far off, although the bit about "social norms" isn't really my concern. Constitutionally limited government is the ideal. "Minarchy", in other words.
.> @NeuM said:
Bullshit answer. I can no longer take anything you say seriously.
You bothered to post the names. Post your arguments, then I'll respond. A list of names is not an opinion.
If I post these names, what am I saying?
-"AOC"
-Bernie Sanders
-Mitt Romney
-John and Meghan McCain
-Chuck Schumer
-Nancy Pelosi
-Adam Schiff
-Andrew and Chris Cuomo
-Bill de Blasio
Entrenched? The people he was "fighting" were democratically elected politicians. They were put there by voters. You make it sound like they had no right to be there.
And in what way corrupt? Taking bribes? Any names of these people?
Did Mr. Trump expose this corruption and send anyone to court or jail? What boards or ccommitties did he set up to invetigate this "corruption"?
In Australia we have "Royal Commissions". Recently we have had them into the Banking Industry, Child Abuse, and other matters. They have far reaching legal powers of investigation and actually expose wrong doings. Some of the things the banks were up to were very illegal and some big fines resulted.
As for people doing illegal things, most of Mr. Trump's associates seemed to be the ones doing ilegal things and ending up in jail.
Until Mr. Trump gives them a Presidential Pardon of course. Now that's corruption....
Thanks.
Not having a tribe is indeed a problem. That makes you a "Loner". I should edit my post and call them categories since as a "Loner" you have strength in numbers. I can fake being a loner but I spell it "Loaner" meaning I tend to join any group I'm surrounded by.
I should check that one out.
I grew tired of most socialist organizations since as a baby boomer I had a side in the cold war and those organizations were typically fronts for the Soviet disinformation campaigns. My father was an Orange County John Bircher and we had some great political games of chess as I developed my own contrary world view as saw the justice of some socialism like Medicare, Social Security, public health systems and benefits, etc. In hist finals days he listened daily to Rush Limbaugh and we avoided debate outside of music, grandchildren and where to eat.
Did you read Gavinski's comment?
Did you read his reaction to what he had found?
The articles I provided supported his findings.
That's all.
No one is calling anyone here racist or xenophobic.
You're simply stating the obvious.
Every country has got it's propaganda the same way every winner writes history.