Apartheid is Fascism ( or: your crypto won’t save you when the jackboots come-a-marching).

Gavinski

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
If President Trump "really won" he'd be President. That Joe Biden is President is not a point of argument.

I am guessing that you do think Trump was cheated by electoral fraud but you don't want to open that can of worms on this thread. That's ok. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

My take on it is that if Trump was cheated it would be the biggest political news story since Watergate. Any reporter, left or right wing, would give anything to get that story.

Watergate made reporters Woodward and Bernstein international news superstars. They were made for life financially and career-wise as a result of that story.

So, the Trump fraud story would be pure news gold. But nobody has presented the story. Nobody has uncovered wrong doings. And there have been many court cases that have failed to establish fraud. They didn't even get close.

Why? Because it didn't happen.

If it did, the right wing media would be all over it. Naming names. Detailing the cheating. Demanding people go to jail.

But they are not. Because it simply didn't happen.

Yup. The Guardian would be all over a story like that regardless of the fact they lean left

ervin

@JeffChasteen said:
Can we all agree that Libertarianism is nothing more than fantasy unicorn-land
for assholes?

The best definition I've read was "libertarianism is astrology for middle-aged white men".

Simon

@Gavinski said:
Yup. The Guardian would be all over a story like that regardless of the fact they lean left

Forget The Guradian..... Fox News and the worldwide Murdoch press would be running it non stop. You'd never hear the end of it

How's your health Gav? I hope you are good.

knewspeak

@NeuM said:

@knewspeak said:

@zah7 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
If President Trump "really won" he'd be President. That Joe Biden is President is not a point of argument.

I am guessing that you do think Trump was cheated by electoral fraud but you don't want to open that can of worms on this thread. That's ok. You don't have to answer if you don't want to.

My take on it is that if Trump was cheated it would be the biggest political news story since Watergate. Any reporter, left or right wing, would give anything to get that story.

Watergate made reporters Woodward and Bernstein international news superstars. They were made for life financially and career-wise as a result of that story.

So, the Trump fraud story would be pure news gold. But nobody has presented the story. Nobody has uncovered wrong doings. And there have been many court cases that have failed to establish fraud. They didn't even get close.

Why? Because it didn't happen.

If it did, the right wing media would be all over it. Naming names. Detailing the cheating. Demanding people go to jail.

But they are not. Because it simply didn't happen.

OK, since you asked nicely…

My answer is there’s insufficient evidence either way to prove conclusively if there was cheating or not. Because many of the contested States have thrown up barriers to comprehensive and independently verifiable audits, we will likely never know. That’s why the only thing that is unarguable is that Joe Biden is currently President and Donald Trump is not.

Further, even if there was provable cheating there’s no remedy in our Constitution for such a thing. So, it is what it is.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-if-the-election-was-a-fraud-the-constitution-doesnt-say/

And in the event the Federal government or the President should ever become tyrannical, there are remedies available to the States to dissolve the Federal government (without bloodshed or violence). I’m not assuming this is what will happen any time soon by the way, despite the breathtaking constitutional violations of the current and several former Presidents.

You are making stuff up about audits. There has been zero evidence despite a large number of lawsuits to indicate irregularities that would have changed the election outcome...this includes lawsuits with GOP-appointed judges and audits with GOP controlled legislatures.

You are voicing (though seemingly reluctant to share your own evaluation ) talking points of conspiracy theories popular on the right. The continued insinuation of significant irregularities favoring the Democratic Party is at odds reality.

Let’s review just a few of the conspiracy theories of the Left during the last administration:

-“He’s a racist”
-“He’s a white supremacist” (alternate: “He sides with the neo-Nazis”)
-“He’s a Russian agent”
-“He hates immigrants”
-“He’s anti-woman”
-“He’s anti-gay”
-“He’s an anti-Semite”
-“He’s mentally ill”
-“He’s compromised by Russian ‘pee tapes’”
-“His lawyer traveled to Russia to pay off hackers who broke into DNC computers”
-“He had Russian money funneled to him through the NRA”
-“He killed thousands of Americans because he did nothing to respond to COVID”
-“He told Americans to inject themselves with bleach”
-“He cheated on his taxes”
-“He had a stroke/strokes which he was hiding from the public”
-“He will refuse to leave the White House if he loses”
-“He was not spied on by the intelligence agencies and he’s crazy for suggesting it”
-“He told supporters to commit insurrection”

All disproven or proven to be Left propaganda. And by the way, that last one is currently part of a highly partisan sham “investigation” which involves legal harassment of him and his associates by Democratic members of Congress. The same ones who lied about the proven fraudulent Steele dossier, by the way.

my sentiments exactly..

Nice dualistic statement’s, truth is often more nuanced, Trump tried to use the corrupt system against itself, he wasn’t successful at maintaining his ‘ego driven’ Presidency. As for redistribution of taxes to the poor and needy, the world’s super-rich have never been richer and are still getting richer, if that’s wealth distribution at work, it’s a system that’s rotten.

I've yet to see a rational or defensible reason to steal the wealth of the financially well off. At least in the US, they already pay the lion's share of taxes. If I had my way, I'd abolish the income tax and the IRS and replace the entire Federal tax system with the so-called "FairTax".

When you’re super-rich you get to write your own cheque, manipulate the ‘tax’ system, divert wealth. You’re partly on your way to political stardom with your ‘Fair Tax’ system, it certainly sounds shallow enough to me. How much tax does the Ex-President Trump pay btw. I’d say the super-rich are having such a difficult time, Eeecking out a living, these days, we should have a whip-round for them, oh no, we did that already.

Gavinski

@MuchHustle said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Eschatone said:

@ExAsperis99 said:
Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

Like many you are probably not aware of just how fascist the anti-fascist movement (or Antifa) really is at its core and as an inevitable outcome of their misguided beliefs. Its part of a long process of subversive alterations of society’s language. For example most believe the dangerous false dichotomy that the poles of the “Political Scale” range from “Communism” (left) <-to-> “Fascism” (right), with their only supportive evidence being the that pre-WWII there was opposition and conflict between Hitler’s Nazi Socialist Party and the Communist Bolsheviks which was framed by western subversive intellectuals as yet another brick in their Hegelian Dialectic trap, along with Moral Relativism, that has the effect of ensnaring one, whether “coming” or “going” (left or right), in an underlying collectivist type system of centralized State control, knowing that once total control over “The Means of Production” is established “ownership” is an inconsequential detail that powerless and thus politically meaningless. Since Communism is defined as State ownership (which has implied control) over the means of production and Fascism is defined as State control, but private ownership, of the means of production the true poles of the Political scale places: “State” -Left- (representing Collectivism premise) <-to-> “Anarchy -Right- (Individualism). These polar positions are expressed, Ethically by: Left = “Common Good” by force (actual violence or the threat thereof) Right = “Individual Good” by voluntary consent.

In conclusion, given the fact that just over the previous century over 100,000,000 (100’s of millions!) people were slaughtered (not counting the billion plus that only suffered from torture, famine, and unimaginable loss) in the name of Communism and a quarter that under Fascism, etc.. Artist need to fucking stick to art and stop dabbling into politics, they don’t understand, in order to be fashionable or just “sarcastic” as if it were funny or even witty, when in reality, to one awake, they see yet another copy of a copy of a copy pretending to be original. I apologize but the time for being quiet and allowing this shit to go by, unchecked, is over and should’ve never started. These ideas (mental viruses) have tragic consequences when the infection takes hold and spreads, as we are now witnessing (at least to those that know what it is they are seeing). I don’t mean covid or flu hype but the larger cultural war that is raging. Thank you for considering my request.

You make some good points in the first paragraph here but I didn't get your point about moral relativism leading to centralised control, would you please elaborate?

Also, I think you are underestimating the number of people killed by 'Capitalism' (of course there is nowhere today that is purely capitalist or Communist). See for example here but there is plenty online about this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model

LinearLineman

@NeuM, John McCain was a terrible person??? I do not have one thousandth of the courage and devotion to his fellows that McCain had. My friend, you just lost all credibility and benefit of the doubt in my estimation. I truly am disappointed. You have drunk deeply of the Kool Aid. I suggest a come to Jesus meeting.

sevenape

@JeffChasteen said:

@MuchHustle said:

@ExAsperis99 said:

@Eschatone said:

@ExAsperis99 said:
Well, that's needlessly provocative headline doesn't serve this excellent piece of music at all! (Despite the fact that I agree, probably, with the sentiment.)

I hit play and forgot I did and was digging this and looking at my various playlists trying to find out what it was! Was this the new Microphones? Something from my long-gestating Ambient playlist on apple music? Anyway, it's great. Would love to hear more.

I guess I was born too late to exist in an era when saying the obvious (fascism is bad) wasn’t controversial. My grandfather grew up in such a time, when he helped save America from fascists in ww2.

We’ve taken political correctness WAY too far when we start worrying about offending the sensibilities of fascists…far too many Americans have lost their lives protecting the country from their cruelty and abuses, for us to callously disregard their sacrifice by coddling such an objectively inhumane ideology.

That said, great music btw and don’t ever let anyone dissuade you from expressing your morality through your art.

You mistake my sarcasm! I'm firmly in the anti-fascist camp, though it's weird to think there are people who are on the fence about that!

Like many you are probably not aware of just how fascist the anti-fascist movement (or Antifa) really is at its core and as an inevitable outcome of their misguided beliefs. Its part of a long process of subversive alterations of society’s language. For example most believe the dangerous false dichotomy that the poles of the “Political Scale” range from “Communism” (left) <-to-> “Fascism” (right), with their only supportive evidence being the that pre-WWII there was opposition and conflict between Hitler’s Nazi Socialist Party and the Communist Bolsheviks which was framed by western subversive intellectuals as yet another brick in their Hegelian Dialectic trap, along with Moral Relativism, that has the effect of ensnaring one, whether “coming” or “going” (left or right), in an underlying collectivist type system of centralized State control, knowing that once total control over “The Means of Production” is established “ownership” is an inconsequential detail that powerless and thus politically meaningless. Since Communism is defined as State ownership (which has implied control) over the means of production and Fascism is defined as State control, but private ownership, of the means of production the true poles of the Political scale places: “State” -Left- (representing Collectivism premise) <-to-> “Anarchy -Right- (Individualism). These polar positions are expressed, Ethically by: Left = “Common Good” by force (actual violence or the threat thereof) Right = “Individual Good” by voluntary consent.

In conclusion, given the fact that just over the previous century over 100,000,000 (100’s of millions!) people were slaughtered (not counting the billion plus that only suffered from torture, famine, and unimaginable loss) in the name of Communism and a quarter that under Fascism, etc.. Artist need to fucking stick to art and stop dabbling into politics, they don’t understand, in order to be fashionable or just “sarcastic” as if it were funny or even witty, when in reality, to one awake, they see yet another copy of a copy of a copy pretending to be original. I apologize but the time for being quiet and allowing this shit to go by, unchecked, is over and should’ve never started. These ideas (mental viruses) have tragic consequences when the infection takes hold and spreads, as we are now witnessing (at least to those that know what it is they are seeing). I don’t mean covid or flu hype but the larger cultural war that is raging. Thank you for considering my request.

Will all due respect,
fuck all of that noise.

Yes what a load of fucking horseshit.. so if we are antifascist we are automatically Stalin. Jesus wept. I blame brexit

tahiche

@LinearLineman said:
@NeuM, John McCain was a terrible person??? I do not have one thousandth of the courage and devotion to his fellows that McCain had. My friend, you just lost all credibility and benefit of the doubt in my estimation. I truly am disappointed. You have drunk deeply of the Kool Aid. I suggest a come to Jesus meeting.

I thought Bush was terrible, until Trump came along and defined a new standard by which Bush is Mother Theresa in comparison.
We’re focusing on Trump here, as he was rather successful and happened to become the “leader of the free world”, but these profiles are spreading like bad weed all around the globe. Trump-wannabes might not be as dangerous but are even more pathetic.

Simon

@tahiche said:
I thought Bush was terrible, until Trump came along

I was saying to a friend the other day that I never thought I'd see a worse President than Nixon in my lifetime, then Trump came along and blew Nixon off the map. LOL. Come back Dickie - all is forgiven!

Simon

@Simon said:

@tahiche said:
I thought Bush was terrible, until Trump came along

I was saying to a friend the other day that I never thought I'd see a worse President than Nixon in my lifetime, then Trump came along and blew Nixon off the map. LOL. Come back Dickie - all is forgiven!

p.s. Clinton & Bush don't look so great either...

Simon

@LinearLineman said:
@NeuM, John McCain was a terrible person???

.... because he stood up to Trump.

BiancaNeve

@Simon said:

@tahiche said:
I thought Bush was terrible, until Trump came along

I was saying to a friend the other day that I never thought I'd see a worse President than Nixon in my lifetime, then Trump came along and blew Nixon off the map. LOL. Come back Dickie - all is forgiven!

Tricky Dicky wasn’t all bad, did a lot to make the world a safer place at the time

Simon

@BiancaNeve said:
Tricky Dicky wasn’t all bad, did a lot to make the world a safer place at the time

Tell that to the people in Chile.

GeoTony

I’ll stick to the music @sevenape , great track, very atmospheric, I especially like the jangly bits (Technical term!)

sevenape

@GeoTony said:
I’ll stick to the music @sevenape , great track, very atmospheric, I especially like the jangly bits (Technical term!)

Thanks very much! I’m not sure what they are called, they are all over post rock music, my friend in a band calls them violins. You too can make them if you download the pointillism guitar sample pack from pianobook!

lasselu

I'm not getting into the political bit but I do like the track!

sevenape

@lasselu said:
I'm not getting into the political bit but I do like the track!

Hahaha thanks very much xxx

JeffChasteen

@ervin said:

@JeffChasteen said:
Can we all agree that Libertarianism is nothing more than fantasy unicorn-land
for assholes?

The best definition I've read was "libertarianism is astrology for middle-aged white men".

Sounds right

NeuM

@LinearLineman said:
@NeuM, John McCain was a terrible person??? I do not have one thousandth of the courage and devotion to his fellows that McCain had. My friend, you just lost all credibility and benefit of the doubt in my estimation. I truly am disappointed. You have drunk deeply of the Kool Aid. I suggest a come to Jesus meeting.

Not entirely my opinion, LL. Perhaps you’ve never seen this article? And I should add, we are truly in upside-down times when anyone on the Left defends John McCain.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-mccain-make-believe-maverick-202004/

NeuM

@tahiche said:

@LinearLineman said:
@NeuM, John McCain was a terrible person??? I do not have one thousandth of the courage and devotion to his fellows that McCain had. My friend, you just lost all credibility and benefit of the doubt in my estimation. I truly am disappointed. You have drunk deeply of the Kool Aid. I suggest a come to Jesus meeting.

I thought Bush was terrible, until Trump came along and defined a new standard by which Bush is Mother Theresa in comparison.
We’re focusing on Trump here, as he was rather successful and happened to become the “leader of the free world”, but these profiles are spreading like bad weed all around the globe. Trump-wannabes might not be as dangerous but are even more pathetic.

Bush was terrible. Obama was terrible. Trump represented a reversal of that trend. Biden is just an inept idiot and no one in his administration knows who is in charge.

NeuM

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
And in that one instance you cited, McCain was right to push back. Otherwise, McCain was a generally terrible person.

I thought he was an American hero. Fought in Vietnam, shot down, captured, tortured, refused early release. No bone spurs.

One of the greatest photos ever taken:

You might benefit from reading this well researched piece: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-mccain-make-believe-maverick-202004/

LinearLineman

Here’s the thing @NeuM, no one has disputed that McCain refused an early release (for propaganda purposes) and stayed more yrs as a pow not to abandon his buddies. He also voted for ACA, in defiance of the tin god, yet you say he did one good thing in his life… otherwise a terrible person. Why, because he wanted to get laid in Rio (the big takeaway from your article) … anyway, did he actually go? Or he just mused about It?Who, the fuck, doesn’t dream of such things?

But, more importantly, you will disregard a thousand articles portraying trump for the sicko he is, but elevate one Rolling Stone article, of a book written by we don’t know who, in an election year.. and that is your indisputable proof, directly from god on high, that McCain is only slightly better than satan.

It seems rather obvious to me now, tho I don’t know why I didn’t realize it earlier that, IMO, you have a preconceived agenda and use particular pieces of misinformation that support a lot of preordained and prejudiced views…rather than seeing the totality and letting a wide range of information shape your viewpoint.

Also, why don't you explain your conclusions in your own words rather than constantly throwing out articles like feeding corn to pigeons, leaving it to others to do the heavy lifting of refuting it? It’s rather lazy and shows no original thinking which, I am sure, you are capable of.

Krupa

If we’re opining on presidents, these are the ones I recall within my lifetime.

Carter - umm, ok? Too young to know
Reagan - wtf?
Bush 1 - eek
Clinton - bit silly
Bush 2 - really wtf?
Obama - now you’re talking 👍
And then because some people couldn’t handle a black man smarter than them, the ol’ ‘free world’ got lumped with Trump, who really showed how bad a President can be…
Biden - meh, should have been someone better, younger, more relevant.

American voters should remember the responsibility they hold, as their choice unfortunately impacts on the rest of us in ways they cannot see…

NeuM

@LinearLineman said:
Here’s the thing @NeuM, no one has disputed that McCain refused an early release (for propaganda purposes) and stayed more yrs as a pow not to abandon his buddies. He also voted for ACA, in defiance of the tin god, yet you say he did one good thing in his life… otherwise a terrible person. Why, because he wanted to get laid in Rio (the big takeaway from your article) Who, the fuck, doesn’t.

But, more importantly, you will disregard a thousand articles portraying trump for the sicko he is, but elevate one Rolling Stone article, written by we don’t know who, in an election year.. and that is your indisputable proof, directly from god on high, that McCain is only slightly better than satan.

It seems rather obvious to me now, tho I don’t know why I didn’t realize it earlier that, IMO, you have a preconceived agenda and use particular pieces of misinformation that supports a lot of preordained and extreme views…rather than seeing the totality and letting a wide range of information shape your viewpoint.

LL… did you read the entire article? And that’s a Rolling Stone article. Not Breitbart.

And by the way, the author is a dyed-in-the-wool Leftist. https://www.rollingstone.com/author/tim-dickinson/

NeuM

@Krupa said:
If we’re opining on presidents, these are the ones I recall within my lifetime.

Carter - umm, ok? Too young to know
Reagan - wtf?
Bush 1 - eek
Clinton - bit silly
Bush 2 - really wtf?
Obama - now you’re talking 👍
And then because some people couldn’t handle a black man smarter than them, the ol’ ‘free world’ got lumped with Trump, who really showed how bad a President can be…
Biden - meh, should have been someone better, younger, more relevant.

American voters should remember the responsibility they hold, as their choice unfortunately impacts on the rest of us in ways they cannot see…

-Carter was a nice individual, but ranks among the worst leaders in US history. Biden currently occupies the top spot.

-Reagan was pretty good until Iran-Contra and arms sales to Iran. That wiped out much of the goodwill he built up.

-Bush #1 was a CIA man and a generally unremarkable President.

-Clinton’s policies were miles away from the extreme Leftism which infects US policy today. His impeachment may have been a bit of a raw deal, but lying to Congress is a crime.

-Bush #2 let his office be run by Dick Cheney and under the guise of protecting the country some of the most constitutionally damaging changes in law and policies were initiated in that administration. Changes which Obama kept in place so that he could use the unconstitutional expansion of presidential powers to use the spy agencies against Americans, including the media and the next President.

espiegel123

@NeuM : the Democratic Party is not extreme left by any stretch of the imagination unless one’s view comes from the extreme right.

Be far-right if you want. Be proud of your beliefs without tarring people (the majority of the country) that don’t share your view as extremists.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:
@NeuM : the Democratic Party is not extreme left by any stretch of the imagination unless one’s view comes from the extreme right.

Be far-right if you want. Be proud of your beliefs without tarring people (the majority of the country) that don’t share your view as extremists.

Aren’t you in Germany? I’m somewhat familiar with the coalition government which exists there, but nearly every party in Germany falls on the politically Left spectrum in comparison to the US.

Also, it’s a cheap shot to paint me as “far-right”. You haven’t been paying attention and I daresay you listened to all of the propaganda and none of the facts when Trump was in office. Perhaps you missed the first two to three years of his presidency in which he was fighting both the entrenched corrupt congressional Republicans and Democrats for most of the time.

LinearLineman

Sorry @NeuM, but I have come to the conclusion that there is no point giving you the benefit of the doubt. You see, you keep playing the same game. You don’t answer why one article about McCain sways you whereas a thousand stories, often with the evidence in Trump’s own words or voice, will not change your view one iota. You are a master cherry picker and, IMO, as @espiegel123 and others often say, you don’t respond to the challenges of others to your blanket statements… and perhaps even sway the opinions of others… rather you trudge inexorably on, throwing out more articles instead of standing in one place and fighting,

You would not score very highly in a college debate because, as was said before, it seems you don't do your own thinking or are truly willing to defend your points. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the denizens of this forum are very often excellent critical thinkers (much moreso than myself) with powers of persuasion by rational argument. The extremist playbook, and it’s many redirective techniques don’t gain much traction here. You, thus, change no viewpoints and end up merely being a foil for more incisive and honest minds.

espiegel123

@NeuM : Germany?

Far-right was not meant as a cheap shot. The positions that you have outlined yourself as having seem to align with positions that are right-wing.

I paid very close attention in the Trump years. I basically completely disagree with both your interpretation of the fact but also apparently what the facts are.

I know from past experience that nothing I could say would get you to reconsider any of your beliefs. I won't try. I speak out only because in places where extremism is not called out, it thrives. Where lies are allowed to stand uncontested, they are more likely to be accepted by others.

Good day.

NeuM

@LinearLineman said:
Sorry @NeuM, but I have come to the conclusion that there is no point giving you the benefit of the doubt. You see, you keep playing the same game. You don’t answer why one article about McCain sways you whereas a thousand stories, often with the evidence in Trump’s own words or voice, will not change your view one iota. You are a master cherry picker and, IMO, as @espiegel123 and others often say, you don’t respond to the challenges of others to your blanket statements… and perhaps even sway the opinions of others… rather you trudge inexorably on, throwing out more articles instead of standing in one place and fighting,

You would not score very highly in a college debate because, as was said before, it seems you don't do your own thinking or are truly willing to defend your points. Unfortunately, or fortunately, the denizens of this forum are very often excellent critical thinkers (much moreso than myself) with powers of persuasion by rational argument. The extremist playbook, and it’s many redirective techniques don’t gain much traction here. You, thus, change no viewpoints and end up merely being a foil for more incisive and honest minds.

Ouch. I don’t harbor any ill will toward you. I think your political positions are uninformed and colored by propaganda from all Left sources, which you seem to not recognize as propaganda. I provide opinions from BOTH Left and Right sources in an attempt to reach something closer to the truth of the matter. My providing the Rolling Stone article, which you seem to have ignored, indicates to me that you might be experiencing cognitive dissonance.