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Comments
I bought the Motherload. No regrets. So chock full o' possibilities. I like the way the amps and effects sound, and there's just about infinite tweakability here. I'm at least partially invested in Jamup, Ampkit, Amplitube, etc. but for me, I like this best so far, with the exception of BIAS for pure amp stuff. But hey, the should work together when needed.
Well, first of all it's all a matter of personal taste. For me , the tone is very very thin (maybe that's why Yonac is working on an update regarding low settings?..) and weak. Thing is , 2 other guitarists used the same exact words.
Regarding the gear , does it make any difference ? I mean, the same 3 guitars I own , sound great in Jamup/Bias and not good in Tonestack. I plugged in a 800$ humbucker Seymour Duncan guitar and I got a thin, weak tone. And I'm using an Apogee Jam.
The Mesa amp is totally weak compared to the other apps. Again , it's a matter of personal taste.
I will record something , I hope Tonestack gets better with updates. Now for me is not usable.
I'm quite happy with Jam Up/ BIAS and I knew that I would pass on this. But there were several comments made about Flying Haggis' clean tones, so I bought it. Nice! The clean tones are really good. And I felt they complimented JU/BIAS set of tones. Best of all it doesn't eat up a lot of memory and is relatively light on the CPU as well. Thanks to those who mentioned its nice clean tones.
Personally I already prefer ToneStack to Jamup, the only real point of comparison is with BIAS and Flying Haggis, where it probably still lags a little behind.
I'll do some more recordings if I get the chance, but last night I tried "The Boar" on the clean channel, and it was great - not thin at all, quite the opposite.
@MrNezumi said:
Glad you enjoy Flying Haggis! Yeah, a lot of people were skeptical/derisive of it when it came out (myself included, to a lesser degree). You'd hear things like "we already have BIAS and JamUp, why do we need this?", or people would complain about what it doesn't do (not much in the way of high gain tones, effects are great, but limited). Turns out that it's a non-intrusive app that really nails some of the areas where Positive Grid's product perhaps isn't as strong, including: (a) ease of use, (b) low memory demand, and (c) emphasis on vintage clean tones as opposed to face-melting high-gain IAP's.
That remains my encouragement for ToneStack. This is a version 1.0 with a massive content lineup that rivals or even surpasses the options of its competitors, particularly in effects. It borrows and refines upon the way pedals are implemented and controlled on an iOS device. I disagree with the statement that the amps are uniformly "too thin", for reasons outlined numerous times above. However, even if that is partially true as a "trend", that actually provides an advantage in using guitar sounds "in the mix", as compared to app with muddy or finnicky apps that crank out tons of power, but not necessarily at high quality.
I don't expect everyone to like it - I specifically advised against certain types of users investing in the $50 full package above. But if you view it the way guitarists view real-life amplifiers or effects pedals, there is certainly room for it. The original Marshall amplifiers were based on modded versions of a Fender Bassman. If people had concluded that we didn't need a new type of amplifier because Fender amps were already pretty great, I don't see how anyone would have benefited from there being fewer choices as opposed to more choices.
@richardyot said:
I would probably agree with all of that! The amps aren't one thing, they are 24 different "things", many of them with multiple channels. The original Fender and Vox amps from JamUp really aren't that good either - I think I already prefer ToneStack's over those. The amps within BIAS are great, but they just don't sound the same when you import them into JamUp, and you need to do that if you want to use them with effects.
I'm really not trying to suppress criticism about ToneStack - if you find glitches with it, or just don't like it for some reason, please share! We need more of that constructive criticism, not less. But I know what phrases like "thin sounding" and "weak" can do to the psyche of a guitar player when they are looking at gear, hence the push-back. I don't consider that be true as an overall statement, and even if it were, it's a "characteristic", not a "defect".
Well-argued M'lud.
I like the layout of this. It's obvious they wanted to do "Jamup advanced". I love Magellan and Gallileo though I think yonac has often flubbed when they've attempted guitar apps.
I am waiting on this one until I hear a demo which impresses me. The "thin tone" is so evident to me as a guitar player, and by that I mean that the natural tone of the guitar is being filtered and suffocated in a way that isn't pleasing to me. It results in a sound which has less transparency and presence, or like many guitarists often complain about with certain set ups, like there is a "blanket on the amp".
Bias and Flying Haggis don't have that issue at all.
I'm assuming two things are going on. 1) They're using filters as a method to reach their tones bringing over sound design which works best on synths to guitars while they are two very different things. 2) They may not be restricting KHz ranges the way most guitar amps do (if they do these limits, then they may not sound as good as effects for different instruments such as synths).
I'm basing this opinion on Yonac's own promo vids on youtube.
I mean, ok, if you prefer a tone where your treble is cranked to 10, you are probably not into a very refined or definable sound in the first place, so this could work for that purpose, but then pretty much any amp sim could.
But, when I saw the treble cranked to 10 on the yonac demo, I could only think "WTF?!?", this does not appear to be a guitar player running this app!?!
And that is the thing, a non-guitarist/casual player might automatically think a guitar is supposed to be an all treble ice pick land. Whereas the instrument is merely sits in the treble staff of music notation, and only that because it is transposed up an octave in order to fit on it.
Somehow that ends up completely confounding people and they think "treble city".
Anyways, crazy poor demo on Yonac's part.
Hope they can easily come up with some solution to this since every feature they have going is awesome compared to their competition, it's just the sound that bothers me.
That said, if enough people say this is a great effect unit for synths, I could definitely support it for that, especially if some demos to that effect show up.
Honestly, the Yonac Youtube demo put me off as well, there wasn't a hint of warmth in the sound, it was like an ice pick to the ears. The app itself doesn't sound like that. I will definitely post some samples later this evening.
Can't you just stick Bias in the input slot and then Tonestack in the FX slot if you're unhappy with the tone? And then leave out any amps/cabinets from your signal chain in Tonestack? Can you do that?
@Michael_R_Grant said:
Technically, yes, but I'm pretty sure I've read people here who have tried that and said that it demanded so much CPU that it rendered things basically unusable.
As a guitar player with a basic knowledge of how signal chains work, I also wonder what that do to the effects. As I'm sure most people know, effects like distortion/overdrive tend to work ideally in the input signal before either a preamp or power amp. Other effects like delay, reverb, etc. work better after those effects, or in an effects loop after a preamp. Doesn't using an AudioBus FX app basically make everything come after the app? Not that can't necessarily be "good", but it may be "different".
Here is a quick sample of the The Boar amp, with minimal gain. As ever please forgive the scrappy playing.
Two things I realized today that may adversely impact some people's first impression of the tone. Watch for these as you try out new amps:
(1) There is a general audio quality setting that goes from Medium --> High --> Very High in the settings menu. Mine defaulted to Medium, and sounded notably less digital when turned up. Of course, it uses more CPU resources to do so, but if your device can handle it, turn it up!
(2) The factory presets are very extreme, and even the amps themselves are set up all wrong when you first load them into a chain. For example, I saw Fenders and Marshalls where the default settings were "11" for Bass and Treble and "4" for Mids. Amps with a Presence knob also had this generally spiked at "11", as well. OBVIOUSLY, with those settings and the volume cranked, the amp can sound shrill.
I'm not saying everyone missed those things, but just a couple of tips to watch out for if you weren't impressed after a few minutes.
I agree, and I think that's particularly true of any guitar amp & FX modeling algorithms whether those be hardware or software.. They just weren't created with the guitar, pick ups, and monitoring system that you are using and are not likely to sound as they were intended to on your rig.
really liking TS!!! I'm only a hack on guitar - and I was never happy at all with the free versions of JamUp or Ampkit (even with a couple purchased pedals)... But for someone like me, TS offers all I need and more. I think it sounds great (from the hour or so i've played with it.)
Here's a small tip that some of you might find useful: yesterday I set up StepPolyArp with no notes programmed - only modulation data sweeping up & down. I then mapped the midi output of this data to the Wah Wah pedal in Tonestack - and voila! - instant funky wah wah guitar without having to move my feet. You can play around with the step sequence length in SPA, or draw in different curves for different wah sweeps. Super easy to set up - I'm sure there are other apps that you could do similar with, but this worked well for me. (i slapped a multitap delay from Aufx Dub in the FX slot of audiobus and liked the sound of that even better!)
@Hafltone: interesting tip - thanks. There is also pretty good auto-wah for all the pedals in TS, but this other approach might also be useful.
I tried using Soundprism via Apollo to turn my iPod touch into a foot controller for TS on my iPad, it worked but latency was bad and ergonomics even worse!
using the SPA method, you could set up a filter sweep over many bars going from low to high - the auto wah wouldn't be able to do this (buy yes, the auto wah is pretty good for what it does)
you could take this step even further and map 4 or 5 different midi CC's in SPA to different knob parameters on some other TS modules/effects. I'm not enough of a gear head to think what would work well right now - but what would be some things to try? anyone?
I have a strange issue with this app. Using it with an Apogee one and even though I manually select input 2 (instrument) ToneStack continues to automatically select inputs 1 and 2 which engages the one mic and starts feeding back - especially with high gain.
This happens every time I send ToneStack to the background to switch apps. Anyone else experiencing this?
I emailed them too prior to seeing your post. So on quartet it enables stereo 1 and 2 which are just line/instrument inputs, correct?
I just could not figure out why it kept feeding back! This would be a tough one to track down, it is just by coincidence that the ONE uses the mic as part of the stereo input so it was easy to hear that something was off.
@Halftone: I tried to set this up tonight, but couldn't get it working. Could you let me know what the correct steps are? I can't seem to map the CCs from STA into TS.
Interesting idea to use a virtual MIDI app to control wah rates, but as said above, the filters work pretty well as an "auto wah". Though probably not as good as the wah in Flying Haggis, which I absolutely love.
here's how i set it up: Audiobus, Loopy in Output, Aufx Dub in FX slot, and SPA and Tonestack loaded in Input. I set up SPA to midi sync with Loopy and send midi out to TS. Then, with note latch turned on in SPA, i hit 1 note. (no notes were in the sequence, only modulation - I used Pan if i remember right)... so you should see the bar in SPA moving along, but hear nothing yet.... then go to TS and Turn ON "Midi Learn for Units"... this will turn all the pedals/fx/amps knobs, etc red... touch the wah pedal and it will turn green (mine changed yo midi channel to 10)... it should then work. One time I did this and got nothing, so i had to stop and start Loopy (synced to SPA, so it essentially restarts SPA by doing this) (oh, and disable the option to use TS internal midi clock.)
just going my memory here... if that doesn't work I can go through it again later tonight and make sure that was the correct steps.
i think you need to have SPA playing already, then turn on the Midi Learn for Units and press the wah pedal - it should start rocking immediately.
Thanks - I'll give it another go.
Heard back from Jessie at Yonac stating that the audio interface input issue will be fixed in next update which they hope to submit this week.
@Ringleader said:
Cool. What is the list of other things from this thread that need to be addressed? I haven't encountered any, really, but recall some issues with using ToneStack as an IAA effect. Then again, IAA is generally kinda wonky.
A big, new update for Tonestack. My issue with using it in Audiobus was partially fixed. It still doesn't default the output to the audio speaker when you load Tonestack in the input slot like my other guitar sim apps do. I still have to manually select the speaker. However, I don't have to populate the effects slot any more to get audio out.
...and Background Audio no longer reverts to off any more, but stays on how you set it previously settings, which is great, as I usually close the cover of my iPad to conserve power during guitar practice.
Many other enhancements to the GUI and MIDI, and volume pedal added.
I'm seriously impressed how quickly this app is developing and requested features are being added. It has become my #1 guitar app.