Icegear - Nambu (FM)

Samu

@stim said:

If I had one request it would be to see aftertouch as a mod source.

I sent Satoshi and e-mail and got a reply within the day so it doesn't hurt to send him a feature request.
The just tap the envelope icon at the bottom of the page https://icegear.net and send him a message!

Stuntman_mike

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

+1 This would extra fun!

Stuntman_mike

@espiegel123 said:
For those that think FM is hard or confusing, I'd recommend taking a look at a good FM explainer and experimenting with just two sine waves at first to get a feel for the timbres created by different frequency ratios and by using fixed modulators, too. Use different envelopes on the modulator and see how the frequency spectrum changes. A lot of people bypass that and don't realize that a lot of magic that can't be done with filters can be found, Then try using a pitch envelope in the modulator.

Spend at least a few minutes a day doing that till you develop a feel for it.

Then add a third oscillator as a modulator.

Take your time and stick with it and you will stop finding it mysterious though it will afford you many discoveries even once you become expert.

Thank you 🙏🏻 great advice!

Stuntman_mike

This is a good explanation of FM:
https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/fm-synthesis

lukesleepwalker

@espiegel123 said:

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

Writing a decent randomization algorithm for such a complex synth (particularly with such flexible routing) is quite challenging...much trickier with FM synths than subtractive synths whose pathways have a more or less fixed architecture.

For sure. I was actually joking in the time honored ABF traditions.

espiegel123

@stim said:
Brilliant FM synth, this is how it should be done - bravo Icegear!

The interface is well thought-out and makes patching fun. Sweet touches like envelope grouping, and the ability to give every envelope stage its own velocity response.

It sounds top-notch. I'm coaxing some gloriously expressive pads out of it.

If I had one request it would be to see aftertouch as a mod source.

You can. Turn on midi learn and long-press any control. You can assign aftertouch or midi cc.

EdGG

@lukesleepwalker said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

Writing a decent randomization algorithm for such a complex synth (particularly with such flexible routing) is quite challenging...much trickier with FM synths than subtractive synths whose pathways have a more or less fixed architecture.

For sure. I was actually joking in the time honored ABF traditions.

I actually think, if it's a bit too complex, the way to go would be to add that randomization in a per module basis. That way experimentation can still occur, but happy accidents and learnings can be broken down. Basically, a small die by each module and a global one if that's what you want.

lukesleepwalker

@EdGG said:

@lukesleepwalker said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

Writing a decent randomization algorithm for such a complex synth (particularly with such flexible routing) is quite challenging...much trickier with FM synths than subtractive synths whose pathways have a more or less fixed architecture.

For sure. I was actually joking in the time honored ABF traditions.

I actually think, if it's a bit too complex, the way to go would be to add that randomization in a per module basis. That way experimentation can still occur, but happy accidents and learnings can be broken down. Basically, a small die by each module and a global one if that's what you want.

Yeah, that might work. Don’t know how complex for the developer. Satoshi has not been inclined toward randomization in other apps so…

Gavinski

It is definitely extremely complex. By the way - can any of the synth gurus explain this to me - when I set a texture operator as the only operator putting out audio, I get no sound on a note-on when it is set to one-shot. I only get sound when I change from one-shot to repeat. Surely shouldn’t be like that?

Poppadocrock

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

There is a Mozaic script. You have to manually map everything out but now that AUM saves midi mappings once you do it you can save it as a template and come back to it whenever.

It’s either Midi CC Randomizer or Mega CC Randomizer. Not the same as a built in one but could help. Can’t wait for some patches to get released. I wish Lagrange and Nambu were on Patchstorage too.

gregsmith

This is so damn good and makes lots of the sorts of sounds I’m after.

I understood how FM worked on a basic level where an oscillator modulates another oscillator, but never understood the algorithm thing until now. As others are saying, the matrix just makes a lot of sense visually - very clever stuff.

lasselu

@Gavinski said:
It is definitely extremely complex. By the way - can any of the synth gurus explain this to me - when I set a texture operator as the only operator putting out audio, I get no sound on a note-on when it is set to one-shot. I only get sound when I change from one-shot to repeat. Surely shouldn’t be like that?

That doesn't sound right. I get output when it's set to one-shot.

mojozart

Because of this instrument's versatility and its longer list of factory presets, this is one IceGear app where I wish the presets browser supported tagging and filtering on attributes, like e.g. Sugar Bytes Factory, or a preset matrix like many other synths.

espiegel123

@Gavinski said:
It is definitely extremely complex. By the way - can any of the synth gurus explain this to me - when I set a texture operator as the only operator putting out audio, I get no sound on a note-on when it is set to one-shot. I only get sound when I change from one-shot to repeat. Surely shouldn’t be like that?

Maybe post your patch that isn’t working

espiegel123

@Gavinski : this works fine for me

stim

@espiegel123 said:

@stim said:
Brilliant FM synth, this is how it should be done - bravo Icegear!

The interface is well thought-out and makes patching fun. Sweet touches like envelope grouping, and the ability to give every envelope stage its own velocity response.

It sounds top-notch. I'm coaxing some gloriously expressive pads out of it.

If I had one request it would be to see aftertouch as a mod source.

You can. Turn on midi learn and long-press any control. You can assign aftertouch or midi cc.

Brilliant, thank you!

Shabudua

@Poppadocrock said:

@Shabudua said:

@lukesleepwalker said:
Needs a randomization button!

Someone had to say it. Not game changier without the dice button!

+1. Especially with a synth so deep and complex, a randomizer really helps me find the ‘hidden’ possibilities I might never stumble upon otherwise.

There is a Mozaic script. You have to manually map everything out but now that AUM saves midi mappings once you do it you can save it as a template and come back to it whenever.

It’s either Midi CC Randomizer or Mega CC Randomizer. Not the same as a built in one but could help. Can’t wait for some patches to get released. I wish Lagrange and Nambu were on Patchstorage too.

Thanks!!

Gavinski

@espiegel123 said:

@Gavinski said:
It is definitely extremely complex. By the way - can any of the synth gurus explain this to me - when I set a texture operator as the only operator putting out audio, I get no sound on a note-on when it is set to one-shot. I only get sound when I change from one-shot to repeat. Surely shouldn’t be like that?

Maybe post your patch that isn’t working

Problem solved. The envelope had too slow attack

_ki

BTW only the FM Operator of the six operator types uses its input for FM (ie pitch frequency modulation) - this generates more overtones up to inharmonics or noise based on the input volume and pitch ratio.

The manual states that the other operators apply amplitude modulation (AM) when some audio (from other operators) is routed via the matrix. This produces a ‚kind of mix‘ of the two audio signals, but no new overtones. UPDATE: Amplitude modulation generates sideband overtones/harmonics that sounds different than the metallic FM harmonics. (thanks espiegel for the info and demo)

For the Oscillator and Texture operator the amplitude modulation easy to test and hear, but for the for the Noise operator there is only a slight change in noise texture, but i wasn‘t able to really hear what i fed into it.

The Resonator and Filter operators just act on their input signal and modify it.

.

So, Nambu is only for 1/6 an FM Synth - or better stated the other way around: Its 6 times more than just FM operators with user-defined connectivity specified in a connection matrix

The matrix templates are showcasing matrix settings (operator connectivity) to replicate the FM algorythms of famouse FM synth - but for Nambu, one can dial in partial routings and even modulate the signal volume fed into an operator.

espiegel123

@_ki : if the other operator types actually use amplitude modulation that will also create harmonics/sidebands. Audio rate amplitude, filter and frequency all create harmonics.

I haven’t had a chance to see if it is doing AM but if it is it will be creating harmonics when AM is in effect. The sideband series of AM and FM is different so has a different sound.

espiegel123

@espiegel123 said:
@_ki : if the other operator types actually use amplitude modulation that will also create harmonics/sidebands. Audio rate amplitude, filter and frequency all create harmonics.

I haven’t had a chance to see if it is doing AM but if it is it will be creating harmonics when AM is in effect. The sideband series of AM and FM is different so has a different sound.

Just did a quick test. The non-FM oscillators do AM modulation and create sidebands/overtones/partials as expected.

espiegel123

Here is a quick wordless demonstration of the overtones created when one non-FM operator modulates another. Both operators are using sine waves.

_ki

@espiegel123 Nice, thanks for the short demo, there were some cool harmonics additions. I corrected the original post

Its seems that detuning the modulator against the carrier is essential to produce these sideband/overtones. I probably only tried around with octave intervals which didn‘t do bigger changes.

wim

I love that you can make the texture operator fire on note off (or on, or both). Adding sounds on key release is a great design tool that almost no synths have.

_ki

@wim Cool, didn‘t yet notice that feature - i‘m going to explore it right now

Using the sampled brass/flutes/horns of the Tetxure operator as modulator for an FM operator also sounds quite nice and gives a natural touch.

espiegel123

@_ki : there is a good explainer of AM sidebands at

https://cmtext.indiana.edu/synthesis/chapter4_am_rm.php

When I learned about this in high school, I had a single-oscillator synth (ARP Axxe) not capable of audio rate modulation. But I had a reel to reel tape recorder that could run at 1 3/4 inches per second through 7 ips and a guitar amp with tremolo.

I would play low pitched notes on the synth with the fastest lfo speed modulating either pitch, the cc’s or the filter cutoff and run that through my amp at the fastest tremolo. I would record at the slowest tape speed and play back at the 4x speed. In effect, that turned all the modulators into audio rate (though low pitched) modulators.

The sounds were quite interesting and clangorous.

attakk

I love the way Nambu‘s osc matrix mirrors to a fair degree the operator matrix of Obsidian‘s FM oscillator in NS2:

Being comfortable with the Obsidian matrix - with every element of it being modulateable via lfo’s and envelopes like Nambu‘s - has meant picking up Nambu has been an absolute breeze.

Ok, the Obsidian FM osc only has the 3 operators, but each patch can have up to 3 independent FM osc‘s if you want 👍

Both synths are ace! (as we used to say at school when I was a kid 😁)

wim

Oh jeez. This has gotten me thinking about what this thing could do if it had an "external input" operator type and could be loaded as an FX.

Montreal_Music

I was curious:

"Yoichiro Nambu (南部 陽一郎, Nanbu Yōichirō, 18 January 1921 – 5 July 2015) was a Japanese-American physicist and professor at the University of Chicago.[1] Known for his contributions to the field of theoretical physics, he was awarded half of the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2008 for the discovery in 1960 of the mechanism of spontaneous broken symmetry in subatomic physics, related at first to the strong interaction's chiral symmetry and later to the electroweak interaction and Higgs mechanism.[2] The other half was split equally between Makoto Kobayashi and Toshihide Maskawa "for the discovery of the origin of the broken symmetry which predicts the existence of at least three families of quarks in nature."[2]"

Thanks Wiki.

Montreal_Music

@wim said:
I love that you can make the texture operator fire on note off (or on, or both). Adding sounds on key release is a great design tool that almost no synths have.

Oh wow, I really really like this feature. Thank you for pointing it.