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Pianoteq 8 is now on the AppStore

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Comments

  • TimRussellTimRussell

    Thanks. That’s excellent news on both fronts.

    I’d love to know how the Clav in Pianoteq compares with the new GSi D6 if anyone has indulged in both…

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    @TimRussell said:
    And has anyone tried the Vibes? Do they allow you to engage/disengage the tremolo effect on the fly?

    Also (in addition to my tremolo comment above), I don't know that much about vibes, but it seems there's also some support for a specialized form of damping for them using aftertouch. From the Pianoteq manual:

    Mallet players often use mallets as dampers while using the sustain pedal. 
The purpose is to exclude certain notes in a group of ringing notes. 
Pianoteq offers this feature in the velocity panel. 
Click on one of the two following options in the Sustained notes 
damping (mallet instruments) section:

    Low-velocity note-on: piano notes are dampened when using the sustain pedal,
    Aftertouch: notes are dampened according to their Aftertouch value when 
using the sustain pedal (adjustable with the Aftertouch curve).

This extra control is accessible not only for 
Chromatic percussions, e.g. Vibraphone, but for any instrument.
  • TimRussellTimRussell

    Just tried the demo. Wow.
    Absolutely love the 4 different pedal functions - nothing else on iOS does that AFAIK. Having una corda, sostenuto and harmonic pedal functions makes this really stand out.
    Sadly my MIDI controller keyboard only has 3 pedal inputs…

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    @TimRussell said:
    Just tried the demo. Wow.
    Absolutely love the 4 different pedal functions - nothing else on iOS does that AFAIK. Having una corda, sostenuto and harmonic pedal functions makes this really stand out.
    Sadly my MIDI controller keyboard only has 3 pedal inputs…

    There are four pedals in the user interface, but there are actually eleven types of pedals, any of which can be assigned to a user-interface pedal. (Change assignment to a pedal by right clicking on it, which I think in touch is a touch-and-hold, works for me, but also pops up lower keyboard, which needs to be closed, cumbersome.)

    Check out the user manual on Pedals, section 14.1:
    https://www.modartt.com/user_manual?product=pianoteq&lang=en

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @hes said:

    @Gavinski said:
    For clarity’s sake, for anyone trying, the sustain only engages once the midi sustain value is above 64, and thereafter its effect is incremental. Brilliant!

    That may be the behavior you're observing, but I believe this is only because of the response curve set for 'Pedal'. I'm sure the Pteq model itself responds variously to midi 0 to 127, but you can control the Pedal response curve just like you can the Velocity curve. To see the various response curves arrow through the set of them on screen where you see (by default) the velocity curve.

    Ah, thank you Hes - I’m glad we have you here

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @Gavinski said:

    @hes said:

    @Gavinski said:
    For clarity’s sake, for anyone trying, the sustain only engages once the midi sustain value is above 64, and thereafter its effect is incremental. Brilliant!

    That may be the behavior you're observing, but I believe this is only because of the response curve set for 'Pedal'. I'm sure the Pteq model itself responds variously to midi 0 to 127, but you can control the Pedal response curve just like you can the Velocity curve. To see the various response curves arrow through the set of them on screen where you see (by default) the velocity curve.

    Ah, thank you Hes - I’m glad we have you here

    I have browsed through the manual - but for sure this is an app where you need to read through the whole manual. It’s very accessible on the surface, but incredibly deep.

  • McDMcD

    @hes said:

    And has anyone tried the Vibes? Do they allow you to engage/disengage the tremolo effect on the fly?

    Yes, just tried. Can turn tremolo on/off or vary rate and/or depth on the fly, seems to affect even notes that have already been played that are in sustain. I'm not a tremolo afficionado, don't know how built-in tremolo compares to tremolo in a separate AUv3 effect plugin, which you could also use, and also modify on the fly.

    Can you explain how you turned tremolo for Vibes off? I looked and didn’t find the trick.

    FYI for the Interested Reader:
    The Vibraphone tremolo is similar to a rotary speaker. There are these rotating circular metal
    Shapes in every resonator tube on a rod that runs from one end to the other (one for sharps and false and another for natural(white) notes. These rods are connected to a silent variable speed motor so each rod turns at the same rate and the volume pulses in sync between them.
    It’s not natural for a Vibe player to instantly stop the motor but many vibists will reach over to the
    Pulleys where the rods connect and turn the tremolo pads to some arbitrary pulsing of the Doppler effect. It would be amazing if PianoTeq added that little vibists detail connected to one of the 4 pedals. A Vibraphone only implements a sustain pedal. The fact that they implemented mallet or hand muting shows dedication to tiny details that matter. Many modern Vibists use MIDI controllers since they are so much easier to carry around and the sound coming is better for direct feed to a PA with excellent uniform “pick up”. Since the events are MIDI a product like PianoTeq and other AUv3 instruments found be targets too.

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    @McD said:

    @hes said:

    And has anyone tried the Vibes? Do they allow you to engage/disengage the tremolo effect on the fly?

    Yes, just tried. Can turn tremolo on/off or vary rate and/or depth on the fly, seems to affect even notes that have already been played that are in sustain. I'm not a tremolo afficionado, don't know how built-in tremolo compares to tremolo in a separate AUv3 effect plugin, which you could also use, and also modify on the fly.

    Can you explain how you turned tremolo for Vibes off? I looked and didn’t find the trick.

    I tried three different ways to turn tremolo off. Not sure if they're all equivalent, but all of them seemed to turn it off:

    1. Toggle the effect to off by clicking the little green circle to the left of 'TREMOLO' title at top of tremolo effects sub-window area.
    2. Change 'Rate' of tremolo to 0 Hz.
    3. Change 'Depth' of tremolo to 0 Db.

    If regular method of turning off doesn't sound "right", then maybe could get better result by automating turnoff (e.g., with Mozaic), to gradually and/or randomly modulate Rate and Depth from current values down to 0.

  • McDMcD

    @hes said:

    @McD said:

    @hes said:

    And has anyone tried the Vibes? Do they allow you to engage/disengage the tremolo effect on the fly?

    Yes, just tried. Can turn tremolo on/off or vary rate and/or depth on the fly, seems to affect even notes that have already been played that are in sustain. I'm not a tremolo afficionado, don't know how built-in tremolo compares to tremolo in a separate AUv3 effect plugin, which you could also use, and also modify on the fly.

    Can you explain how you turned tremolo for Vibes off? I looked and didn’t find the trick.

    I tried three different ways to turn tremolo off. Not sure if they're all equivalent, but all of them seemed to turn it off:

    1. Toggle the effect to off by clicking the little green circle to the left of 'TREMOLO' title at top of tremolo effects sub-window area.
    2. Change 'Rate' of tremolo to 0 Hz.
    3. Change 'Depth' of tremolo to 0 Db.

    If regular method of turning off doesn't sound "right", then maybe could get better result by automating turnoff (e.g., with Mozaic), to gradually and/or randomly modulate Rate and Depth from current values down to 0.

    Thanks! I was able to manually adjust it as you document. I was searching for a way to connect an external MIDI Control to toggle it. I’ll try an external Knob that changes the Rate either in the instrument setup (if possible) since the tremolo is baked into the Presets in various rates. A knob that is connected to this list of Presets for Vibe-M would also be useful but ON/OFF would be best. I’ll keep digging looking to master the various options provided in this amazingly detailed (and confusing) app.

    I assign value to a purchase by hour much of my time it takes up… Isn’t that the purpose of a hobby? To find constructive use of free time?

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    @McD said:

    @hes said:

    @McD said:

    @hes said:

    And has anyone tried the Vibes? Do they allow you to engage/disengage the tremolo effect on the fly?

    Yes, just tried. Can turn tremolo on/off or vary rate and/or depth on the fly, seems to affect even notes that have already been played that are in sustain. I'm not a tremolo afficionado, don't know how built-in tremolo compares to tremolo in a separate AUv3 effect plugin, which you could also use, and also modify on the fly.

    Can you explain how you turned tremolo for Vibes off? I looked and didn’t find the trick.

    I tried three different ways to turn tremolo off. Not sure if they're all equivalent, but all of them seemed to turn it off:

    1. Toggle the effect to off by clicking the little green circle to the left of 'TREMOLO' title at top of tremolo effects sub-window area.
    2. Change 'Rate' of tremolo to 0 Hz.
    3. Change 'Depth' of tremolo to 0 Db.

    If regular method of turning off doesn't sound "right", then maybe could get better result by automating turnoff (e.g., with Mozaic), to gradually and/or randomly modulate Rate and Depth from current values down to 0.

    Thanks! I was able to manually adjust it as you document. I was searching for a way to connect an external MIDI Control to toggle it. I’ll try an external Knob that changes the Rate either in the instrument setup (if possible) since the tremolo is baked into the Presets in various rates. A knob that is connected to this list of Presets for Vibe-M would also be useful but ON/OFF would be best. I’ll keep digging looking to master the various options provided in this amazingly detailed (and confusing) app.

    I think there is a way to toggle tremolo on and off, but it depends on knowing where it's loaded in the UI. This is accessible via the Effect 1 Switch, Effect 2 Switch, or Effect 3 Switch parameter, depending on which of the three effect slots tremolo is loaded in in your UI.

    Not sure, but you might want to research the 'Freeze' feature to help get what you want with different presets: "The freeze allows you to select the parameters that you want to keep unchanged when changing instrument or preset. This is a convenient feature for “transporting” settings from one instrument to another."

    Also, I don't think the Pro version per-note settings are midi accessible, but I think just about every other parameter is. Plus more, e.g., loading of specific presets.

    In addition to midi, there's also a JSON-RPC API that allows you to automate Pianoteq more generally, e.g., from a web browser without involving midi at all. Not sure where that's all documented, this post gives you an idea: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9053

    Here's a link to a github project that uses JSON-RPC API to provide alternative access to most Pianoteq settings from a web browser. https://github.com/robert-rc2i/ptq-client-webapp To be a "JSON-RPC" server, Pianoteq needs to be started up with a special --server flag, not sure how you'd do that on iOS. . . .

    I assign value to a purchase by hour much of my time it takes up… Isn’t that the purpose of a hobby? To find constructive use of free time?

    :)

  • McDMcD

    @hes said:
    In addition to midi, there's also a JSON-RPC API that allows you to automate Pianoteq more generally, e.g., from a web browser without involving midi at all. Not sure where that's all documented, this post gives you an idea: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9051

    It looks like it’s not implemented in the IOS product… I know IOS won’t respond to http://localhost
    so I tried connecting from an iPhone to the iPad instance and not doesn’t get served a page. Oh well.

  • heshes
    edited May 2023

    @McD said:

    @hes said:
    In addition to midi, there's also a JSON-RPC API that allows you to automate Pianoteq more generally, e.g., from a web browser without involving midi at all. Not sure where that's all documented, this post gives you an idea: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9051

    It looks like it’s not implemented in the IOS product… I know IOS won’t respond to http://localhost
    so I tried connecting from an iPhone to the iPad instance and not doesn’t get served a page. Oh well.

    I don't think that means it's not implemented. It doesn't work on desktop either, unless you start Pianoteq with the appropriate flag. I doubt that implementation varies much between desktop and iOS because it doesn't depend on UI at all. And, since Modartt said Pteq would be ported "without compromise", maybe it will be available in future, just needs way to turn on the server mode on iOS.

    BTW, I did find the JSON-RPC documentation, not anywhere on the web, but on my Macbook if I start Pteq in server mode then Pianoteq itself serves up the JSON-RPC documentation, which I found in my browser at http://localhost:8081/jsonrpc . Very slick. It's really interesting how much this app can do, but really I'm not sure how much use most people will make of it. It's fun for geeks to play around with all this stuff, but main use case is just to play a piano. :)

  • FriedTapewormFriedTapeworm

    I’m surprised, but I find the K2 to be the best sounding across all the octaves every time I play. The NY model D sounds better than the K2 with the hammer action adjusted a bit, but I don’t think it’s good enough to justify the price tag for Studio over Stage. There’s something about the NY Steinway, in the upper registers that sounds off to me.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @FriedTapeworm what’s your opinion on the Petrofs?

  • FriedTapewormFriedTapeworm

    @LinearLineman said:
    @FriedTapeworm what’s your opinion on the Petrofs?

    I think the Petrofs sound nice as well. I actually haven’t done back and forth sound tests between K2 and Petrofs much. I’ve been comparing each to Steinway, as that’s the model most pianists consider the gold standard for a grand, as far as I can tell. But after many days of obsessing, I think I’m ready to rule out the Model D. I’ll take a closer look at the Petrofs in the next couple days.

  • FriedTapewormFriedTapeworm

    @LinearLineman Did the Petrofs strike you as a standout amongst the demo presets?

  • Danny_MammyDanny_Mammy

    actually pianoteq may have made the Steinway sound worse in the version 8... well what they did was more accurately model it and subsequently it brought out (IMO) some issues like ringing in certain ranges which are apparently in the original.
    i preferred the inferior version 7 model... less ringing

    modelling can be bad... hihi

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @Gavinski said:

    @HotStrange said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    Just want to recommend people check out the demos and info at the Modartt site. It made understanding the available instruments and a lot of presets quite easy.

    The pianos all seem to be above average including the K2 a totally made up Pianoteq grand.
    I might be leaning toward the Petrofs over the D. Have to listen more. Shocking. More clarity? IDK.
    The Grotrian is quite good, too.
    Why no Yamahas or Kawai? Couldn’t reach agreement, I guess.

    The free instruments are pretty impressive for free. Two Harpsichords, two Pleyel Pianos, a decent Pianoforte.

    They do a split with bass and piano. Where’s that bass from?
    The classical guitar is excellent, of course.

    Doesn’t it come with a free CP-80 as well? I’m really liking the Petrof as well but the Steinway is classic and has always struck me as the most all around versatile.

    Right now I’m thinking Steinway/Petrof, Tines, and Hohner but that could change. I think I’m happy enough with the demos for everything else until I pick up an extra pack.

    I think I absolutely HAVE to get the Hohner pack lol. The missing keys in the demo do start to get a bit annoying after a while - as someone said earlier, that's how they get you!

    The morphing and layering features are brilliant. Make me fantasise about having the studio version with all of them, just keep hitting random on morphing and see what it comes up with. For someone who likes sound design and experimentation, but tends to like natural acoustic sounds more than many synth type sounds, this is a dream, though I'd still probably be even more excited about a Plasmonic port. If you don't have all the instruments you can still use the paid instruments for morphing (at least if you have stage, or use the Stage or Pro demo modes) but there are quite a few annoying pop ups when dealing with instruments you haven't actually bought in the morph mode.

    Oh so you can still morph with instruments you don’t own?

    Agreed on the Hohner pack. The Clav is actually my least favorite of the bunch - though I still love it - it’s just that everything else sounds so good. Now I’ve kinda circled around to Steinway D, Hohner, and Tines. And maybe the Steel Pan as a separate purchase down the road, though I’m not sure yet.

  • FriedTapewormFriedTapeworm

    Well on an initial play through of the Ant. Petrof 275 vs the Petrof 284 Mistral, I prefer the former.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @FriedTapeworm said:
    @LinearLineman Did the Petrofs strike you as a standout amongst the demo presets?

    @Danny_Mammy said:
    actually pianoteq may have made the Steinway sound worse in the version 8... well what they did was more accurately model it and subsequently it brought out (IMO) some issues like ringing in certain ranges which are apparently in the original.
    i preferred the inferior version 7 model... less ringing

    modelling can be bad... hihi

    Indeed,I heard that ringing, too (and the B treble as well). I might prefer the Petrof to the D. I always tell myself it’s about “clarity”. Not sure if that’s bs or not
    . I have to listen more to the bass notes. I’m an iconoclast… sometimes.

  • Danny_MammyDanny_Mammy

    @LinearLineman Did the Petrofs strike you as a standout amongst the demo presets?

    @Danny_Mammy said:
    actually pianoteq may have made the Steinway sound worse in the version 8... well what they did was more accurately model it and subsequently it brought out (IMO) some issues like ringing in certain ranges which are apparently in the original.
    i preferred the inferior version 7 model... less ringing

    modelling can be bad... hihi

    Indeed,I heard that ringing, too (and the B treble as well). I might prefer the Petrof to the D. I always tell myself it’s about “clarity”. Not sure if that’s bs or not
    . I have to listen more to the bass notes. I’m an iconoclast… sometimes.

    the YC5 (yamaha) is a good allrounder, also it has great resonance when sustain pedal held down.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @FriedTapeworm said:
    Well on an initial play through of the Ant. Petrof 275 vs the Petrof 284 Mistral, I prefer the former.

    Surprisingly I think the Petrof has been my favorite so far as well. Just strikes me as a little less versatile than Steinway D but I may be wrong there. Petrof just comes off as more mellow and subdued. That’s not a bad thing but maybe not great for all genres.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @LinearLineman said:

    @FriedTapeworm said:
    @LinearLineman Did the Petrofs strike you as a standout amongst the demo presets?

    @Danny_Mammy said:
    actually pianoteq may have made the Steinway sound worse in the version 8... well what they did was more accurately model it and subsequently it brought out (IMO) some issues like ringing in certain ranges which are apparently in the original.
    i preferred the inferior version 7 model... less ringing

    modelling can be bad... hihi

    Indeed,I heard that ringing, too (and the B treble as well). I might prefer the Petrof to the D. I always tell myself it’s about “clarity”. Not sure if that’s bs or not
    . I have to listen more to the bass notes. I’m an iconoclast… sometimes.

    Have you tried the Bluthner or Bechstein? Imo, worth exploring even if IRL one prefers Steinway

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @hes said:

    @Gavinski said:
    For clarity’s sake, for anyone trying, the sustain only engages once the midi sustain value is above 64, and thereafter its effect is incremental. Brilliant!

    That may be the behavior you're observing, but I believe this is only because of the response curve set for 'Pedal'. I'm sure the Pteq model itself responds variously to midi 0 to 127, but you can control the Pedal response curve just like you can the Velocity curve. To see the various response curves arrow through the set of them on screen where you see (by default) the velocity curve.

    Great tip! I really need to go back and read the manual more thoroughly instead of skimming it - hence the fact I haven't done a spoken walkthrough on this yet. An app with this amount of effort and care put into it deserves a thorough and well informed review, after spending a lot of time with it.

  • EcalusSondaEcalusSonda
    edited May 2023

    Can I have subscription on $5 for a month and activate every time I feel like its important on a project yet access to Pianoteq Pro Studio bundle ?

  • ion677ion677

    After playing each piano quite extensively and fiddling with each preset and parameter, I have to say the bechstein has won my vote for my favorite sounding of the bunch. It’s so well balanced and musical sounding, and the felt preset doesn’t sound metallic and weirdly like a harp like the other models do.
    Second favorite is the u4 upright which can sound quite a bit like ni the giant with some tweaking.

  • JanKunJanKun

    @ion677 said:
    After playing each piano quite extensively and fiddling with each preset and parameter, I have to say the bechstein has won my vote for my favorite sounding of the bunch. It’s so well balanced and musical sounding, and the felt preset doesn’t sound metallic and weirdly like a harp like the other models do.
    Second favorite is the u4 upright which can sound quite a bit like ni the giant with some tweaking.

    These 2 plus both Petrof are my favourites so far.

  • McDMcD
    edited May 2023

    Regarding Spending the extra $89 ($129 minus the “free” Instrument choice) for Pro versus getting more Instrument packs.

    The Spectral Profile (+/- 12 dB controls for the fundamental and 7 overtones) can really change an instrument in ways similar to a Graphic EQ but it operates on the physical model and not as a
    filtering stage. It changes the base oscillation. This is the crown for whom that detail matters. The pianists of the world don’t go crazy over spectral controls.

    The Blooming Energy and Blooming Inertia in the Note Editor can make a piano “flower” like the sound of a sitar or fret less bass.

    Pianos have 3 strings per note for most notes and “Unison Width” will add detuning to 2 of three strings to create that “honky tonk piano” sound. For the music that put Honkys on the charts in the 40’s. If you’re not a honky then reverse-cultural appropriation is fair game.

    Hammer hardness controls (piano, mezzo, forte) can make any piano more felty and it really matters on the mallet instruments because the defaults are hard plastic. For a lovely marimba or Kalima you want this control.

    This is the whole menu exposed to Pro level users. You can demo them I think for 20 minutes with each re-boot so check it out and see of there’s $89 of value there.

    With these controls you can change the Steinway to sound more like the Bluthner and save the $50 for yet another piano. Maybe that will make you think twice. Only buy 1 piano and then target the E-piano, Horner Clav, guitar, xylophone, steel pans and harps. $600 for Pro and 4 more on the installment plan of $129 per quarter and $50 month to compete the set in 1 year and a day.

    I really want a small community of sound designers to share Presets with on the Mordarrt Forum… those guys share the most lame presets. “Steinberg with added reverb on the pedal noise like in my piano room” or “1964 Mason-Hamlin Challenge”. Only one Preset so far is not just another Piano… I want to see what the group mind can create with this amazing synth engine. Imagine if they just made controls for serious madness like the Mad German does. Modartt “Madness Pack” for PianoTeq.

    I just hope they don’t follow OrganTeq into a line of Instrument categories that cost $600 each to really have fun:

    BrassTeq
    WoodwindTeq
    BowedStringsTeq
    PluckedStringsTeq
    OrcPercussionTeq
    WorldPercussionTeq
    and to complete the journey:

    SynthTeq included in “Modartt StudioTeq for $5,000” (financing available)

  • McDMcD
    edited May 2023

    How many features are NOT implemented in PianoTeq IOS?

    I have detected:
    1. automatic MIDI archiving - imagine you play a gig and when you get home you can review your playing over 4 hours of recorded content or have a practice session and review it as a listener
    2. loading your own “Impulse Files”
    3. the floating Note Editor window (that should be possible on systems with “Window Manager”)
    4. 192KHz Audio Playback

  • zvonzvon

    @McD said:
    How many features are NOT implemented in PianoTeq IOS?

    I have detected:
    1. automatic MIDI archiving - imagine you play a gig and when you get home you can review your playing over 4 hours of recorded content or have a practice session and review it as a listener
    2. loading your own “Impulse Files”
    3. the floating Note Editor window (that should be possible on systems with “Window Manager”)
    4. 192KHz Audio Playback

    Automatic MIDI archiving is available, press the title of the file loaded in the MIDI player, "Blues Demo" by default, and a menu opens that has a few items and the last one "Recently played on the keyboard" opens the MIDI archiving sub-menu.

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