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Is AI the future of music Production?

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Comments

  • NeuMNeuM

    @magnusovi said:
    Neum, your insights also make me ponder if ‘Artificial Intelligence’ is somewhat of a misnomer. Given our current AI’s capabilities are more aligned with data processing rather than exhibiting sentient understanding, perhaps a reevaluation of the term is due as we advance in this field.

    I suppose either of us could be essentially "correct" on this issue, depending on how one chooses to view these developments.

    Just remember, we live in a world where people are considered not human by others to justify acts of violence or suppression against them if they hold different religious, political or other beliefs. And if people can consider other people to be "less than human" then acceptance of sentient A.I.'s as individuals might not happen in our lifetimes or long after we're gone.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited December 2023

    @knewspeak said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    ‘When it happens, we'll know it’, but that’s the problem, we won’t, why, because we don’t even understand consciousness within ourselves, within nature.

    We may be fooled into believing it is ‘consciousness’, but that doesn’t make it so.

    It may even state it is conscious, but again would that make it so. No not without a definition and understanding that definition.

    If consciousness is a subjective experience, an objective definition may never be reached.

    By what criteria are you conscious? And can you prove it? Can you prove any person is more than the sum of their parts?

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @NeuM said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    ‘When it happens, we'll know it’, but that’s the problem, we won’t, why, because we don’t even understand consciousness within ourselves, within nature.

    We may be fooled into believing it is ‘consciousness’, but that doesn’t make it so.

    It may even state it is conscious, but again would that make it so. No not without a definition and understanding that definition.

    If consciousness is a subjective experience, an objective definition may never be reached.

    By what criteria are you conscious? And can you prove it? Can you prove any person is more than the sum of their parts?

    Minds much greater than ours have been struggling with that question for millenia

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited December 2023

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    This is confusing the issue. You said AI will be 'self aware... no different from another life form capable of thinking independently'. As I understand it, Magnus was basically saying that we don't really understand what it means to be self aware, so you can't say that AI will be self aware in the same way as humans are. We don't understand what human consciousness is. He's not saying that AI couldn't pass the Turing Test, for example, that's not the issue here.

    One thing I’d say is that awareness arose from particular conditions, incredibly complex ones - which is philosophically curious and significant imo. This is why emotions, empathy etc arose as well. And that’s a problem Given we just throw around words like intelligence etc as a shorthand for ‘what we mean by human experience’ or whatever, you know what I’m getting at, I don’t see that this gestalt should be thought of seperate to emotions and empathy. I think you have to consider every tangible aspect of being a thinking aware lifeform as being part of the cross section of products in whose overlap this ‘life alive’ concept becomes visible

    • and I’m using ‘arose from’ to avoid getting into my actual beliefs about the direction of causality and enable me to interact with humans and have actual contextual conversation :D-

    Nothing exists when you treat it. Not before, when contrast is thrown against it. So what if an artificial Intelligence becomes self aware but without proper emotions… it would not be very sentient. It’s ‘nothing’ is only visible or produced or brought into being by certain properties, but if it’s not being provoked by emotion, it’s as close to sentience as half an electronically stimulated autopsy is to a living human body . And that’s just one example

    I actually think the thing, the ineffable thing we all mean when talking about this concept, might be quite simply defined by its singularity. I think that’s what characterises it or is most significant in the understanding of self.

    There are also degrees of consciousness/whatever, degrees of sentience, which seems to break some inviolable idea we hold onto but is very obvious looking at the different forms and states of life

    Self-aware is a more specific phrase but I don’t think a very well formulated one, I mean I don’t think it results in something resembling its intent. It’s still mechanical and a thing could be self aware without understanding that, self-self-aware of something. This ‘awareness’ is a hard thing to get behind and I don’t think it can be understood in a cumulative way.

    None of this is against the idea of artificial life/intelligence just that so little of the conversation about what it is seems to be done by people with insights or understandings of it. I’d say the people mostly discussing this or working on it are often among the least able and qualified to do so actually. It’s like watching a mathematicians writing music or making art. Yeah there are sounds and there are cooours but that’s only where an artist reveals in our plane of experience things that can’t be seen. A song isn’t sounds and art isn’t colours. This is why I don’t listen to music anymore.

    It’s the st exupery quote about les essentiels or whatever it is but I’ll go over my pretentiousness quota for the week if I add that :)

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited December 2023

    I still think that the idea of creating life resembling human life is going to look increasingly quaint and absurd as a measure of greatness imposed on something new and potentially greater in some respects than it

  • wingwizardwingwizard
    edited December 2023

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    This is confusing the issue. You said AI will be 'self aware... no different from another life form capable of thinking independently'. As I understand it, Magnus was basically saying that we don't really understand what it means to be self aware, so you can't say that AI will be self aware in the same way as humans are. We don't understand what human consciousness is. He's not saying that AI couldn't pass the Turing Test, for example, that's not the issue here.

    @magnusovi said: “ We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself.”

    I didn’t introduce the idea of an eventual AI being “alive”, he did. That wasn’t the point of anything I’ve been posting. This is about AGI. When or how it will appear and how we’ll know what it is.

    I think this is a very fair point. We’re all using terms that are nebulous at best and exist at the frontiers of understanding.

    @knewspeak said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    ‘When it happens, we'll know it’, but that’s the problem, we won’t, why, because we don’t even understand consciousness within ourselves, within nature.

    We may be fooled into believing it is ‘consciousness’, but that doesn’t make it so.

    It may even state it is conscious, but again would that make it so. No not without a definition and understanding that definition.

    If consciousness is a subjective experience, an objective definition may never be reached.

    Think this is as good a definition as any. The point at which life is created is the pointed at which life is unable to understand that it is not life> @NeuM said:

    @knewspeak said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:

    @NeuM said:

    @wingwizard said:
    Ai is really beautiful if you have a serious disability. There are lots of other things I can say but this is what matters most among them.

    It’ll get interesting when the existential malaise at being unable to create anything new gives to one of them the divine curse of self knowledge.

    AGI (artificial general intelligence) will be self-aware. All we see today are very sophisticated examples of machine learning. An AGI will be, as far as we are concerned, no different from another life form capable of thinking independently.

    We define life by criteria that go beyond mere intelligence. Currently, we don’t have a definitive understanding of consciousness itself. So, asserting that AGI will achieve a state akin to human-like self-awareness seems premature. Until we grasp the true essence of consciousness, any claims about machines reaching a similar state remain speculative. We’re navigating uncharted territory here, potentially leading to breakthroughs, but also to misconceptions about what AGI truly represents

    A person could be in a vegetative state, cut off from the world. Unable to communicate. Yet their brain, their mind may be fully functional.

    Intelligence has nothing to do with a physical body or even a pulse. A computer or robot need not be "alive" to display intelligence or self-awareness. When it happens, we'll know it. And some people will be terrified of the prospect that they could be replaced... that all of humanity could be replaced.

    ‘When it happens, we'll know it’, but that’s the problem, we won’t, why, because we don’t even understand consciousness within ourselves, within nature.

    We may be fooled into believing it is ‘consciousness’, but that doesn’t make it so.

    It may even state it is conscious, but again would that make it so. No not without a definition and understanding that definition.

    If consciousness is a subjective experience, an objective definition may never be reached.

    By what criteria are you conscious? And can you prove it? Can you prove any person is more than the sum of their parts?

    You also can’t prove that world is anything more than consciousness or that those parts of which consciousness could be just the sum exist except as consciousness

    One of the issues people run into is trying to assert natures onto things. This is that, this is that.

  • wingwizardwingwizard

    @NeuM said:

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:
    Mark my words, the future will be making ugly music…. Cuz AI is gonna make all the bangers lolol. My lack of skill may be a superpower in the future!

    I bet someone using these new tools will create a song or album that charts at some point in the very near future.

    Not memorable or even pleasant to listen to yet, but it's getting closer.

    Heard and made quite a few tracks now on suno that are much better than most music out there (as in, friends and I actually really really like one particular ai, big fans, MASSIVE talent, going straight to the top), and these. It’s f—ing disturbing 😂 the better you are lyrically and able to write musical lyrics the better the track

    Naturally most songs I have made have been gangsters rapping about incontinence issues and incidents stemming therefrom

    I accept our overlords as a new competitor

    At the very very worst, one of the tracks sounded like Cliff Richard mixed with the goo goo dolls. And better than anything cliffs ever done.

  • AlexYAlexY

    Have you guys ever read William Gibson’s Bridge Trilogy books? In particular, Idoru, where J-Pop idol is an AI global celebrity and its engaged to marry a flesh & blood guy who is also a big global celebrity.

    This development might be getting us an inch closer to that future.

  • magnusovimagnusovi
    edited December 2023

    Neum, your observation about how we perceive ‘otherness’ in humans sheds light on how we might react to AI consciousness. Are we talking about something that can be observed, or is it more about our personal, internal experiences?

    wingwizard, your thoughts on consciousness arising from a complex mix of factors, including emotions and empathy, add a crucial dimension. It echoes what some philosophers have pondered for ages as Gav said. Think about Descartes with his ‘I think, therefore I am,’ which delves into self-awareness, or Hume’s ideas about self and experience. Your point about AI possibly achieving a form of self-awareness, yet lacking the depth of human emotions and experiences, really resonates.

    I feel that our language sometimes struggles to keep up with these concepts. We use terms like ‘intelligence’ and ‘awareness,’ but they don’t always capture the whole picture. This whole topic reminds me of something Wittgenstein said about the limits of language.

    What strikes me most is how important it is to have people from different fields – not just tech or philosophy – come together to explore these ideas. To me it’s a reminder that understanding AI and consciousness isn’t just about algorithms or philosophical theories; it’s about the human experience in all its forms.

  • magnusovimagnusovi

    @AlexY said:
    Have you guys ever read William Gibson’s Bridge Trilogy books? In particular, Idoru, where J-Pop idol is an AI global celebrity and its engaged to marry a flesh & blood guy who is also a big global celebrity.

    This development might be getting us an inch closer to that future.

    Sounds very fun! I will have to read them now…

  • NeuMNeuM

    By the way, here’s a ‘prediction’ by one of the people involved in this race to create an AGI:

    https://x.com/rowancheung/status/1730444720361406960?s=61&t=EblTN1YExzME8eJ7t_dizQ

    Like him or not, he is there on the forefront and has a pretty good idea of where this is going.

  • magnusovimagnusovi

    https://youtube.com/shorts/ouvVxWLzovA?si=Q042s4ZBZIzs-Woc

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited December 2023

    @magnusovi said:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/ouvVxWLzovA?si=Q042s4ZBZIzs-Woc

    That's not a deep fake. That's a real guy in China who has become famous for looking exactly like Elon Musk. LOL.

  • magnusovimagnusovi

    @NeuM said:

    @magnusovi said:
    https://youtube.com/shorts/ouvVxWLzovA?si=Q042s4ZBZIzs-Woc

    That's not a deep fake. That's a real guy in China who has become famous for looking exactly like Elon Musk. LOL.

    lol I know, but I can’t get him out of my head every time I hear Elon’s name….

  • heshes
    edited December 2023

    A 20 minute documentary about the dangers of AI, 99% of which was created by AI:

    "The Wizard of AI is more than watchable. While trying to unpick both the hype and the terror that has arisen around AI, the documentary gleefully unloads a barrage of riotous images, from mutated, musclebound fish to vanishing genies via nuclear warhead top trump cards. It’s visually stunning and rattles along at a rollercoaster pace. But behind all the eye-candy is a subversive message – Warburton is using AI to warn us of the damage being done to artists and creatives by … AI itself."

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/dec/05/wizard-of-ai-artificial-intelligence-alan-warburton-dangers-film

  • CJunitCJunit

    It is A future, one of many. Ironically, I was more involved with AI in music 20 years ago. It has been easy-ish to use AI to help in composing original music for 35 years. But it's only been hyped as "cool new thing" now that surveillance consumerism has turned everything into data-driven marketing. So there will be runaway trends of the most algorithmically catchy pop and jingles, and stylistic mashups a la "Beyonce in the style of Satie" or whatever. But since it's all industry driven, that leaves us 99% of the landscape of musical possibilities to play in. Most of that isn't commercial, but when something breaks out into popularity, AI will be a force-multiplier allowing countless similar copies. As soon as your new thing starts trending, some established publisher/conglomerate will try to push their version.

    IMO "culture industries" are all kind of bogus, in that they are trying to create "popular", but by that definition "popular" is curated/gatekept by a minority of owners. From my perspective truly popular music, games, movies, etc would be that which is made by the average person.

    Personally, I enjoy AI tools, and will surely play with them more. But that's because I am an AV tech tinkerer.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited December 2023

    Incidentally, Google just announced their machine learning system, called Gemini, is now more powerful than ChatGPT. And they have some evidence supporting this in some videos they've released.

    I think it'll be possible to use their system to replace any grade level teacher at home in no more than 6-12 months. Things are accelerating at a hugely increased rate now since billions of dollars are now at stake and the first mover's advantage goes a long way when it comes to popular usage.

    https://blog.google/technology/ai/google-gemini-ai/#introducing-gemini

  • robertsslrobertssl

    AI or not AI is not anymore a question, everything or everyone will have to deal with AI in 2024.

    All sofware we use as MS Office or in music major Daws will include some AI more and more for specific tasks and the myth of the 30 years experience of Mastering engineers will be out of the game quickly.

    That doesn’t mean that all mastering engineers will loose their jobs as they are doing more than just mastering nowadays m they are for many labels the pro link between home studio artist and labels a kind of art director. Same for producer there are human factors.

    AI assist me in many aspect of my life as I need an assistant as autistic person for some help and I welcome greatly a new AI assistant to my audio hobby (now it is for so many years just a hobby even I I was many years ago a pro engineer in audio). It will not create music for me but can help even propose new ideas.

    Intelligent is not the word but more efficient and practical that I am as Autist Asperger is the right words.

    What is the future of artists that want to make a living , there are no future but nothing to do with AI. Their problems is that everyday over over 100 000 new tracks are added to Spotify , Apple Music… that people don’t listen music really as with a vinyl or CD they zap from one track to an other in few seconds without any knowledge of which is the artist or the title.

    For studio this is the same , label don’t invest anymore so artist do all in home studio and some have the chance to have a pro mixer and a mastering engineer but with less and less budget per tracks. Nothing to do with IA.

    Audio and making elaborate mixes is here our hobby and pleasure but in blind test normal listener music consumer will not tell you in 2025 what was created by a human and a IA between 2 tracks.

    Pro artist will have only gigs and concerts live or not live in multi movie theater to make a living and branding their names for some happy few.

    I have no nostalgia at all as audio and music is my selfish pleasure.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @robertssl said:
    AI or not AI is not anymore a question, everything or everyone will have to deal with AI in 2024.

    All sofware we use as MS Office or in music major Daws will include some AI more and more for specific tasks and the myth of the 30 years experience of Mastering engineers will be out of the game quickly.

    That doesn’t mean that all mastering engineers will loose their jobs as they are doing more than just mastering nowadays m they are for many labels the pro link between home studio artist and labels a kind of art director. Same for producer there are human factors.

    AI assist me in many aspect of my life as I need an assistant as autistic person for some help and I welcome greatly a new AI assistant to my audio hobby (now it is for so many years just a hobby even I I was many years ago a pro engineer in audio). It will not create music for me but can help even propose new ideas.

    Intelligent is not the word but more efficient and practical that I am as Autist Asperger is the right words.

    What is the future of artists that want to make a living , there are no future but nothing to do with AI. Their problems is that everyday over over 100 000 new tracks are added to Spotify , Apple Music… that people don’t listen music really as with a vinyl or CD they zap from one track to an other in few seconds without any knowledge of which is the artist or the title.

    For studio this is the same , label don’t invest anymore so artist do all in home studio and some have the chance to have a pro mixer and a mastering engineer but with less and less budget per tracks. Nothing to do with IA.

    Audio and making elaborate mixes is here our hobby and pleasure but in blind test normal listener music consumer will not tell you in 2025 what was created by a human and a IA between 2 tracks.

    Pro artist will have only gigs and concerts live or not live in multi movie theater to make a living and branding their names for some happy few.

    I have no nostalgia at all as audio and music is my selfish pleasure.

    The thing about A.I. is there won't be a "one size fits all" solution for people. Everything will be tailored to your needs and you'll have the best imaginable assistant or consultant available to you (be that a idea generator, music producer, doctor, lawyer, therapist, or whatever) at any time. There's no going back and people won't want to go back.

  • robertsslrobertssl

    @NeuM said:

    @robertssl said:
    AI or not AI is not anymore a question, everything or everyone will have to deal with AI in 2024.

    All sofware we use as MS Office or in music major Daws will include some AI more and more for specific tasks and the myth of the 30 years experience of Mastering engineers will be out of the game quickly.

    That doesn’t mean that all mastering engineers will loose their jobs as they are doing more than just mastering nowadays m they are for many labels the pro link between home studio artist and labels a kind of art director. Same for producer there are human factors.

    AI assist me in many aspect of my life as I need an assistant as autistic person for some help and I welcome greatly a new AI assistant to my audio hobby (now it is for so many years just a hobby even I I was many years ago a pro engineer in audio). It will not create music for me but can help even propose new ideas.

    Intelligent is not the word but more efficient and practical that I am as Autist Asperger is the right words.

    What is the future of artists that want to make a living , there are no future but nothing to do with AI. Their problems is that everyday over over 100 000 new tracks are added to Spotify , Apple Music… that people don’t listen music really as with a vinyl or CD they zap from one track to an other in few seconds without any knowledge of which is the artist or the title.

    For studio this is the same , label don’t invest anymore so artist do all in home studio and some have the chance to have a pro mixer and a mastering engineer but with less and less budget per tracks. Nothing to do with IA.

    Audio and making elaborate mixes is here our hobby and pleasure but in blind test normal listener music consumer will not tell you in 2025 what was created by a human and a IA between 2 tracks.

    Pro artist will have only gigs and concerts live or not live in multi movie theater to make a living and branding their names for some happy few.

    I have no nostalgia at all as audio and music is my selfish pleasure.

    The thing about A.I. is there won't be a "one size fits all" solution for people. Everything will be tailored to your needs and you'll have the best imaginable assistant or consultant available to you (be that a idea generator, music producer, doctor, lawyer, therapist, or whatever) at any time. There's no going back and people won't want to go back.

    This is exactly what I express , AI is here and no going back. Now some of us will still have the pleasure hobby and the money to spend in analog old fashion racks not at all useful or better than digital and do all without AI just for the pleasure to tweak real buttons not to use AI. I respect that and if I have the room and the money for vintage audio hobby I will have also great pleasure to mix on an old great SSL console again as I had long years ago. But I can’t anymore.

  • RajahPRajahP
    edited December 2023

    Someone shared this… I’m stumped

    Sing into the mic and turn your voice into Britney..

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @NeuM said:

    @robertssl said:
    AI or not AI is not anymore a question, everything or everyone will have to deal with AI in 2024.

    All sofware we use as MS Office or in music major Daws will include some AI more and more for specific tasks and the myth of the 30 years experience of Mastering engineers will be out of the game quickly.

    That doesn’t mean that all mastering engineers will loose their jobs as they are doing more than just mastering nowadays m they are for many labels the pro link between home studio artist and labels a kind of art director. Same for producer there are human factors.

    AI assist me in many aspect of my life as I need an assistant as autistic person for some help and I welcome greatly a new AI assistant to my audio hobby (now it is for so many years just a hobby even I I was many years ago a pro engineer in audio). It will not create music for me but can help even propose new ideas.

    Intelligent is not the word but more efficient and practical that I am as Autist Asperger is the right words.

    What is the future of artists that want to make a living , there are no future but nothing to do with AI. Their problems is that everyday over over 100 000 new tracks are added to Spotify , Apple Music… that people don’t listen music really as with a vinyl or CD they zap from one track to an other in few seconds without any knowledge of which is the artist or the title.

    For studio this is the same , label don’t invest anymore so artist do all in home studio and some have the chance to have a pro mixer and a mastering engineer but with less and less budget per tracks. Nothing to do with IA.

    Audio and making elaborate mixes is here our hobby and pleasure but in blind test normal listener music consumer will not tell you in 2025 what was created by a human and a IA between 2 tracks.

    Pro artist will have only gigs and concerts live or not live in multi movie theater to make a living and branding their names for some happy few.

    I have no nostalgia at all as audio and music is my selfish pleasure.

    The thing about A.I. is there won't be a "one size fits all" solution for people. Everything will be tailored to your needs and you'll have the best imaginable assistant or consultant available to you (be that a idea generator, music producer, doctor, lawyer, therapist, or whatever) at any time. There's no going back and people won't want to go back.

    But that’s the problem with AI everything tailored to the individual, in this model the connectedness of humanity is lost, people want to share things - creations, memories, hopes and dreams of all shades, but most of all the quality, not quantity of love, passion and joy, in this regard AI is a dull, soulless, zombie.

  • NeuMNeuM
    edited December 2023

    @knewspeak said:

    @NeuM said:

    @robertssl said:
    AI or not AI is not anymore a question, everything or everyone will have to deal with AI in 2024.

    All sofware we use as MS Office or in music major Daws will include some AI more and more for specific tasks and the myth of the 30 years experience of Mastering engineers will be out of the game quickly.

    That doesn’t mean that all mastering engineers will loose their jobs as they are doing more than just mastering nowadays m they are for many labels the pro link between home studio artist and labels a kind of art director. Same for producer there are human factors.

    AI assist me in many aspect of my life as I need an assistant as autistic person for some help and I welcome greatly a new AI assistant to my audio hobby (now it is for so many years just a hobby even I I was many years ago a pro engineer in audio). It will not create music for me but can help even propose new ideas.

    Intelligent is not the word but more efficient and practical that I am as Autist Asperger is the right words.

    What is the future of artists that want to make a living , there are no future but nothing to do with AI. Their problems is that everyday over over 100 000 new tracks are added to Spotify , Apple Music… that people don’t listen music really as with a vinyl or CD they zap from one track to an other in few seconds without any knowledge of which is the artist or the title.

    For studio this is the same , label don’t invest anymore so artist do all in home studio and some have the chance to have a pro mixer and a mastering engineer but with less and less budget per tracks. Nothing to do with IA.

    Audio and making elaborate mixes is here our hobby and pleasure but in blind test normal listener music consumer will not tell you in 2025 what was created by a human and a IA between 2 tracks.

    Pro artist will have only gigs and concerts live or not live in multi movie theater to make a living and branding their names for some happy few.

    I have no nostalgia at all as audio and music is my selfish pleasure.

    The thing about A.I. is there won't be a "one size fits all" solution for people. Everything will be tailored to your needs and you'll have the best imaginable assistant or consultant available to you (be that a idea generator, music producer, doctor, lawyer, therapist, or whatever) at any time. There's no going back and people won't want to go back.

    But that’s the problem with AI everything tailored to the individual, in this model the connectedness of humanity is lost, people want to share things - creations, memories, hopes and dreams of all shades, but most of all the quality, not quantity of love, passion and joy, in this regard AI is a dull, soulless, zombie.

    If you had the option to get a personal assistant (butler or maid) for free, or at very low cost, would you take it? Or what if you could get the best music producer who has ever lived for nearly no cost? "Custom everything" is what very wealthy people can afford to do.

  • Mountain_HamletMountain_Hamlet

    This might have been expressed earlier in the thread, but in regards to AI and art.....in my experience art has been a process of expression and communication. The connection outside the bounds of logical ideas and thought. AI is essentially a thought bubble that is void of original emotional expression although it does a reasonable job of imitating it. The interesting thing is that when you go back through our musical history it hasn't always been about what is musically or acoustically correct that has made for a piece of popular music connecting to people. While the focus in the digital world is about AI and it's many advances that big tech likes to promote at any given opportunity, I would like to think that people are still going to want to communicate outside of the box and potentially at levels that a machine will never really reach.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @Mountain_Hamlet said:
    This might have been expressed earlier in the thread, but in regards to AI and art.....in my experience art has been a process of expression and communication. The connection outside the bounds of logical ideas and thought. AI is essentially a thought bubble that is void of original emotional expression although it does a reasonable job of imitating it. The interesting thing is that when you go back through our musical history it hasn't always been about what is musically or acoustically correct that has made for a piece of popular music connecting to people. While the focus in the digital world is about AI and it's many advances that big tech likes to promote at any given opportunity, I would like to think that people are still going to want to communicate outside of the box and potentially at levels that a machine will never really reach.

    Never say never. Look at this thread in a few years from now.

  • Mountain_HamletMountain_Hamlet

    @NeuM said:

    Never say never. Look at this thread in a few years from now.

    Thanks for the correction. I do need to keep removing my beliefs.

  • magnusovimagnusovi

    I think that until we know what consciousness is, all advances in AI will by definition be the opposite. In fact I think that if AI stumbles upon “it”, it will be self evident. The fact that the discussion is so unresolved is further evidence of how far AI is from becoming “whatever humans are”.

    For me AI in music seems like a blessing. It will make production all the most accessible for an amateur musician such as myself.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @Mountain_Hamlet said:
    This might have been expressed earlier in the thread, but in regards to AI and art.....in my experience art has been a process of expression and communication. The connection outside the bounds of logical ideas and thought. AI is essentially a thought bubble that is void of original emotional expression although it does a reasonable job of imitating it. The interesting thing is that when you go back through our musical history it hasn't always been about what is musically or acoustically correct that has made for a piece of popular music connecting to people. While the focus in the digital world is about AI and it's many advances that big tech likes to promote at any given opportunity, I would like to think that people are still going to want to communicate outside of the box and potentially at levels that a machine will never really reach.

    I use it all the time and find it soulless, lifeless and meaningless until I add my own soul, life and meaning to it.

  • NeuMNeuM

    @AudioGus said:

    @Mountain_Hamlet said:
    This might have been expressed earlier in the thread, but in regards to AI and art.....in my experience art has been a process of expression and communication. The connection outside the bounds of logical ideas and thought. AI is essentially a thought bubble that is void of original emotional expression although it does a reasonable job of imitating it. The interesting thing is that when you go back through our musical history it hasn't always been about what is musically or acoustically correct that has made for a piece of popular music connecting to people. While the focus in the digital world is about AI and it's many advances that big tech likes to promote at any given opportunity, I would like to think that people are still going to want to communicate outside of the box and potentially at levels that a machine will never really reach.

    I use it all the time and find it soulless, lifeless and meaningless until I add my own soul, life and meaning to it.

    I've tried everything I know to try to get something semi-professional out of the "Draw Things" software for desktop and my results have been less than ideal so far. I know someone with no prior experience in art who is able to get the most gorgeous images out of another software company. It's baffling.

  • seonnthaproducerseonnthaproducer

    @AudioGus said:

    @Mountain_Hamlet said:
    This might have been expressed earlier in the thread, but in regards to AI and art.....in my experience art has been a process of expression and communication. The connection outside the bounds of logical ideas and thought. AI is essentially a thought bubble that is void of original emotional expression although it does a reasonable job of imitating it. The interesting thing is that when you go back through our musical history it hasn't always been about what is musically or acoustically correct that has made for a piece of popular music connecting to people. While the focus in the digital world is about AI and it's many advances that big tech likes to promote at any given opportunity, I would like to think that people are still going to want to communicate outside of the box and potentially at levels that a machine will never really reach.

    I use it all the time and find it soulless, lifeless and meaningless until I add my own soul, life and meaning to it.

    Idk…I think what we as humans call “soul” is pretty much our tastes and preferences that constantly gets revised based on our experiences.

    But back to the topic, I’m already accepting the use of AI as an additional tool in getting ideas into fruition, reducing the barrier, while adding a ton on unintended biases and effects.

    It’s easy to imagine a future where everything is perfect and solved. But I wear glasses of cautious optimism. There’s always going to be a problem that needs to be solved. Whatever form that problem comes, it’s up to us as individuals to use the knowledge, skills, tools, and experience to tackle them.

    Alright, back to my cave I go. The robots await…

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