Inter-App Audio: The state of play in 2023

wim

Yeh. The Air 2 is going to become the static device for legacy apps if/when I move on to a better device. There aren't many legacy apps that I still use very often, but no reason to ditch them entirely.

Especially Sector!

HotStrange

@espiegel123 said:
Patterning is great. Nave. OdysseI. I’ll freeze my iPad to be able to keep them.

Nave is another fantastic one. I really hope it’ll go AU some day but it seems doubtful.

mjcouche

Some apps were clever and were configured in such a way that you could play 16 different instruments on the 16 different midi channels from one instance. iSymphonic is still like this in IAA mode

pax-eterna

@wim said:
Yeh. The Air 2 is going to become the static device for legacy apps if/when I move on to a better device. There aren't many legacy apps that I still use very often, but no reason to ditch them entirely.

Especially Sector!

I'll probs buy one to keep all the Lumbeat apps...when apple finally close down operating system support for IAA I mean...

[Deleted User]

@HotStrange said:

@robosardine said:
I often wonder about the Ampify apps and what will become of them. I like Groovebox, Blocs Wave and Launchpad.

Agreed. The synths inside Groovebox sound fantastic. I believe they’re derived from Novations VA engine. I would love to see that go AU to use the synths and drums inside other hosts.

I use too Groovebox ampify and blocwaves they say they support AUv3 but they are not AUv3 app ? I use them standalone. I love this 2 apps. I should download them to my old IPad Air iOS15 , as we never know with ios17 .

HotStrange

@BerlinFx said:

@HotStrange said:

@robosardine said:
I often wonder about the Ampify apps and what will become of them. I like Groovebox, Blocs Wave and Launchpad.

Agreed. The synths inside Groovebox sound fantastic. I believe they’re derived from Novations VA engine. I would love to see that go AU to use the synths and drums inside other hosts.

I use too Groovebox ampify and blocwaves they say they support AUv3 but they are not AUv3 app ? I use them standalone. I love this 2 apps. I should download them to my old IPad Air iOS15 , as we never know with ios17 .

As fas as I know, they don’t have AU support, only IAA. I think I read a while back they were gonna implement the ability to record AUs into Blocswave but it still hasn’t happened yet. I’m definitely still keeping them. Even in standalone mode they’re fun.

supadom

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

I think it’s hard to argue one way or another. The guy’s been working at Apple for the last 5 years at least now. I don’t know the exact rules but rumour has it that devs working at Apple cannot develop new apps on the platform however they can maintain them. This means that probably AUV3 can be classed as maintenance as long as the core app is the same.

To me the bigger obstacle is time. I doubt a man of his age will have heaps of it on top of a regular job to be wanting to fiddle with old apps in spare time. But that’s just pure speculation on somebody’s private affairs so I better stop.

It will be what it will be. In the last exchange I had with the dev he told me he was intending to make an AUV3 version of Samplr but would absolutely not put a time frame on it. He’s also mentioned Samplr 2 😬🫣

[Deleted User]

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

I think it’s hard to argue one way or another. The guy’s been working at Apple for the last 5 years at least now. I don’t know the exact rules but rumour has it that devs working at Apple cannot develop new apps on the platform however they can maintain them. This means that probably AUV3 can be classed as maintenance as long as the core app is the same.

To me the bigger obstacle is time. I doubt a man of his age will have heaps of it on top of a regular job to be wanting to fiddle with old apps in spare time. But that’s just pure speculation on somebody’s private affairs so I better stop.

It will be what it will be. In the last exchange I had with the dev he told me he was intending to make an AUV3 version of Samplr but would absolutely not put a time frame on it. He’s also mentioned Samplr 2 😬🫣

I confirm indeed dev at Apple can maintain their old apps.

HotStrange

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

I think it’s hard to argue one way or another. The guy’s been working at Apple for the last 5 years at least now. I don’t know the exact rules but rumour has it that devs working at Apple cannot develop new apps on the platform however they can maintain them. This means that probably AUV3 can be classed as maintenance as long as the core app is the same.

To me the bigger obstacle is time. I doubt a man of his age will have heaps of it on top of a regular job to be wanting to fiddle with old apps in spare time. But that’s just pure speculation on somebody’s private affairs so I better stop.

It will be what it will be. In the last exchange I had with the dev he told me he was intending to make an AUV3 version of Samplr but would absolutely not put a time frame on it. He’s also mentioned Samplr 2 😬🫣

Yeah I’ve heard the same regarding new apps when working at apple. I would love to see it go AU, but even if it just gets maintenance updates at this point I’ll be happy. I’m not an IAA hater like some on here are though, so I don’t mind to keep using it in its current form. It’s also nice having a version of it in LPx, even though it’s not as full as the OG app.

robosardine

@wim said:
Yeh. The Air 2 is going to become the static device for legacy apps if/when I move on to a better device. There aren't many legacy apps that I still use very often, but no reason to ditch them entirely.

Especially Sector!

Sector, yes of course! I haven’t had that out in ages 😀 I’m just off to remedy that right now….

suboptimal

All software eventually dies. Keeping old protocols around forever to support the desires of a niche user base has never been a priority for the duopolies that dictate all this stuff. If anything, it's amazing that these old apps still run.

I think the folks predicting the eventual death of IAA have it right. At that point, people who want to keep their IAA favorites running will have to choose between keeping an iPad at the last compatible OS and buying another, or abandoning the IAA apps.

Thing is, few people expect to keep the hardware (iPads, desktops) for 10+ years. Upgrading is a constant. So keeping an old machine around for old apps is something you can do if you value it.

I think we can have both, in other words.

johnfromberkeley

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

Last time I checked, Marcos was working on MacOS by day and not part of the music group. Samplr is a labor of love. I believe current Apple rules allow him to keep it updated for compatibility, but not add new features. I guess you could argue as to whether AUv3 is “compatibility” or a new feature. Fun fact, I was at Apple during the Logic Pro for iPad launch party, but I was not invited, and I was at a meeting on a different campus, so I couldn’t try to crash LOL.

johnfromberkeley

I am not going to let the demise of IAA deter me from using IAA apps. I will probably keep my current A12 Bionic iPad on iOS 16. And get an M1 in the next generation so I can run Final Cut Pro, too. Or, full on da Vinci.

OnfraySin

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
m> @NeuM said:

@cyberheater said:
Given that the biggest DAW on iOS (Logic Pro) doesn’t support IAA means it’s basically dead.

I’ve deleted all my IAA apps. I’m never going to buy from an App developer who hasn’t updated their apps to AUV3. Korg, I’m looking at you.

Yes, the failure to maintain even very good older apps and make them AUv3/AU at this point is inexcusable. I'm on board with getting rid of all laggards.

Inexcusable? An awful lot of very intelligent developers with far more knowledge of their revenue streams find that the economics aren’t there to justify putting in the time and/or money to create AUv3 versions of their apps.

If one doesn’t like using IAA apps, fine. But there are some excellent IAA with no real AUv3 equivalent that continue to work great. If you do like using IAA that’s obviously ok. To say that it is inexcusable for developers to lose money or be minimally profitable is puzzling — and inconsistent with your belief that market economics are always “right”.

I'm sure those developers have plenty of reasons they have no interest in bringing their apps up to date. As users, we have the right to determine what is acceptable for us. I find it inexcusable for any developer to continue to offer apps which have fallen into disrepair.

If an app works well, it has not "fallen into disrepair".

While it would be lovely, if all apps were IAA. It is just not accurate to call something that works well "in disrepair" or to call it inexcusable.

You have every right to prefer AUv3 apps -- but it is just silly to act as if apps that work well are "in disrepair" because they haven't adopted the latest protocols -- and it certainly is not inexcusable for developers to not update apps if the time/effort would be more than it would return.

Any app which does not work in the current version of iOS, iPadOS or macOS is not being maintained. Keeping one's apps up to date is part of the deal when one sells through the App Store.

espiegel123

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
m> @NeuM said:

@cyberheater said:
Given that the biggest DAW on iOS (Logic Pro) doesn’t support IAA means it’s basically dead.

I’ve deleted all my IAA apps. I’m never going to buy from an App developer who hasn’t updated their apps to AUV3. Korg, I’m looking at you.

Yes, the failure to maintain even very good older apps and make them AUv3/AU at this point is inexcusable. I'm on board with getting rid of all laggards.

Inexcusable? An awful lot of very intelligent developers with far more knowledge of their revenue streams find that the economics aren’t there to justify putting in the time and/or money to create AUv3 versions of their apps.

If one doesn’t like using IAA apps, fine. But there are some excellent IAA with no real AUv3 equivalent that continue to work great. If you do like using IAA that’s obviously ok. To say that it is inexcusable for developers to lose money or be minimally profitable is puzzling — and inconsistent with your belief that market economics are always “right”.

I'm sure those developers have plenty of reasons they have no interest in bringing their apps up to date. As users, we have the right to determine what is acceptable for us. I find it inexcusable for any developer to continue to offer apps which have fallen into disrepair.

If an app works well, it has not "fallen into disrepair".

While it would be lovely, if all apps were IAA. It is just not accurate to call something that works well "in disrepair" or to call it inexcusable.

You have every right to prefer AUv3 apps -- but it is just silly to act as if apps that work well are "in disrepair" because they haven't adopted the latest protocols -- and it certainly is not inexcusable for developers to not update apps if the time/effort would be more than it would return.

Any app which does not work in the current version of iOS, iPadOS or macOS is not being maintained. Keeping one's apps up to date is part of the deal when one sells through the App Store.

We were talking about apps that do work in the current OS.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
m> @NeuM said:

@cyberheater said:
Given that the biggest DAW on iOS (Logic Pro) doesn’t support IAA means it’s basically dead.

I’ve deleted all my IAA apps. I’m never going to buy from an App developer who hasn’t updated their apps to AUV3. Korg, I’m looking at you.

Yes, the failure to maintain even very good older apps and make them AUv3/AU at this point is inexcusable. I'm on board with getting rid of all laggards.

Inexcusable? An awful lot of very intelligent developers with far more knowledge of their revenue streams find that the economics aren’t there to justify putting in the time and/or money to create AUv3 versions of their apps.

If one doesn’t like using IAA apps, fine. But there are some excellent IAA with no real AUv3 equivalent that continue to work great. If you do like using IAA that’s obviously ok. To say that it is inexcusable for developers to lose money or be minimally profitable is puzzling — and inconsistent with your belief that market economics are always “right”.

I'm sure those developers have plenty of reasons they have no interest in bringing their apps up to date. As users, we have the right to determine what is acceptable for us. I find it inexcusable for any developer to continue to offer apps which have fallen into disrepair.

If an app works well, it has not "fallen into disrepair".

While it would be lovely, if all apps were IAA. It is just not accurate to call something that works well "in disrepair" or to call it inexcusable.

You have every right to prefer AUv3 apps -- but it is just silly to act as if apps that work well are "in disrepair" because they haven't adopted the latest protocols -- and it certainly is not inexcusable for developers to not update apps if the time/effort would be more than it would return.

Any app which does not work in the current version of iOS, iPadOS or macOS is not being maintained. Keeping one's apps up to date is part of the deal when one sells through the App Store.

We were talking about apps that do work in the current OS.

Since IAA versus AU is central to this discussion, then apps which have remained IAA instead of being updated to AU, then they have not been properly maintained.

espiegel123

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
m> @NeuM said:

@cyberheater said:
Given that the biggest DAW on iOS (Logic Pro) doesn’t support IAA means it’s basically dead.

I’ve deleted all my IAA apps. I’m never going to buy from an App developer who hasn’t updated their apps to AUV3. Korg, I’m looking at you.

Yes, the failure to maintain even very good older apps and make them AUv3/AU at this point is inexcusable. I'm on board with getting rid of all laggards.

Inexcusable? An awful lot of very intelligent developers with far more knowledge of their revenue streams find that the economics aren’t there to justify putting in the time and/or money to create AUv3 versions of their apps.

If one doesn’t like using IAA apps, fine. But there are some excellent IAA with no real AUv3 equivalent that continue to work great. If you do like using IAA that’s obviously ok. To say that it is inexcusable for developers to lose money or be minimally profitable is puzzling — and inconsistent with your belief that market economics are always “right”.

I'm sure those developers have plenty of reasons they have no interest in bringing their apps up to date. As users, we have the right to determine what is acceptable for us. I find it inexcusable for any developer to continue to offer apps which have fallen into disrepair.

If an app works well, it has not "fallen into disrepair".

While it would be lovely, if all apps were IAA. It is just not accurate to call something that works well "in disrepair" or to call it inexcusable.

You have every right to prefer AUv3 apps -- but it is just silly to act as if apps that work well are "in disrepair" because they haven't adopted the latest protocols -- and it certainly is not inexcusable for developers to not update apps if the time/effort would be more than it would return.

Any app which does not work in the current version of iOS, iPadOS or macOS is not being maintained. Keeping one's apps up to date is part of the deal when one sells through the App Store.

We were talking about apps that do work in the current OS.

Since IAA versus AU is central to this discussion, then apps which have remained IAA instead of being updated to AU, then they have not been properly maintained.

In your opinion.

NeuM

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:

@NeuM said:

@espiegel123 said:
m> @NeuM said:

@cyberheater said:
Given that the biggest DAW on iOS (Logic Pro) doesn’t support IAA means it’s basically dead.

I’ve deleted all my IAA apps. I’m never going to buy from an App developer who hasn’t updated their apps to AUV3. Korg, I’m looking at you.

Yes, the failure to maintain even very good older apps and make them AUv3/AU at this point is inexcusable. I'm on board with getting rid of all laggards.

Inexcusable? An awful lot of very intelligent developers with far more knowledge of their revenue streams find that the economics aren’t there to justify putting in the time and/or money to create AUv3 versions of their apps.

If one doesn’t like using IAA apps, fine. But there are some excellent IAA with no real AUv3 equivalent that continue to work great. If you do like using IAA that’s obviously ok. To say that it is inexcusable for developers to lose money or be minimally profitable is puzzling — and inconsistent with your belief that market economics are always “right”.

I'm sure those developers have plenty of reasons they have no interest in bringing their apps up to date. As users, we have the right to determine what is acceptable for us. I find it inexcusable for any developer to continue to offer apps which have fallen into disrepair.

If an app works well, it has not "fallen into disrepair".

While it would be lovely, if all apps were IAA. It is just not accurate to call something that works well "in disrepair" or to call it inexcusable.

You have every right to prefer AUv3 apps -- but it is just silly to act as if apps that work well are "in disrepair" because they haven't adopted the latest protocols -- and it certainly is not inexcusable for developers to not update apps if the time/effort would be more than it would return.

Any app which does not work in the current version of iOS, iPadOS or macOS is not being maintained. Keeping one's apps up to date is part of the deal when one sells through the App Store.

We were talking about apps that do work in the current OS.

Since IAA versus AU is central to this discussion, then apps which have remained IAA instead of being updated to AU, then they have not been properly maintained.

In your opinion.

That happens to be the opinion of Apple.

HotStrange

@johnfromberkeley said:

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

Last time I checked, Marcos was working on MacOS by day and not part of the music group. Samplr is a labor of love. I believe current Apple rules allow him to keep it updated for compatibility, but not add new features. I guess you could argue as to whether AUv3 is “compatibility” or a new feature. Fun fact, I was at Apple during the Logic Pro for iPad launch party, but I was not invited, and I was at a meeting on a different campus, so I couldn’t try to crash LOL.

I suppose he could argue AUV3 is a compatibility update since it will be updating to meet their requirements for music apps. I guess I can be fine with JUST having the logic version if worst comes to worst but I hope it has a brighter future than that. It’s such an amazing app and has even been used by some bigger artists.

HotStrange

@suboptimal said:
All software eventually dies. Keeping old protocols around forever to support the desires of a niche user base has never been a priority for the duopolies that dictate all this stuff. If anything, it's amazing that these old apps still run.

I think the folks predicting the eventual death of IAA have it right. At that point, people who want to keep their IAA favorites running will have to choose between keeping an iPad at the last compatible OS and buying another, or abandoning the IAA apps.

Thing is, few people expect to keep the hardware (iPads, desktops) for 10+ years. Upgrading is a constant. So keeping an old machine around for old apps is something you can do if you value it.

I think we can have both, in other words.

I’m planning on upgrading my iPad this summer to the new 1 tb pro and then keeping my current Air 2022 on this iOS version to keep these old apps just in case.

wahnfrieden

The next inter-app comms that everyone is still behind on is ExtensionFoundation and ExtensionKit, introduced in iOS 16.1 and macOS 13.0. definitely lots of stuff audio apps could use this for. everyone's sleeping on it.

Simon

@NeuM said:
That happens to be the opinion of Apple.

How do you know that?

What about a music app that has not got IAA or AUv3? Just standalone.

Such apps exist on the app store. Are they "not being properly maintained"?

Should I report them to Legal and get a gift card...?

NeuM

@Simon said:

@NeuM said:
That happens to be the opinion of Apple.

How do you know that?

What about a music app that has not got IAA or AUv3? Just standalone.

Such apps exist on the app store. Are they "not being properly maintained"?

Should I report them to Legal and get a gift card...?

How do I know it? It was covered here, with documentation: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/33165/the-biggest-audio-news-from-todays-apple-event-iaa-is-deprecated-in-ipados-ios-13/p1

espiegel123

Deprecation does not mean what you think. Apple still supports deprecated code. They don't consider apps to be "in disrepair" or useless if they make use of deprecated APIs. It means nothing more than: "at some time in the future we will discontinue the API, and we encourage you to update your apps to use new APIs."

Apple itself on MacOS used some deprecated APIs for close to a decade in the early aughts.

It does not mean that an app is in disrepair if it uses a deprecated API.

wim

GarageBand would be in disrepair by @NeuM's criteria.

Simon

Surely the fact that an app is still in the app store means that it meets Apple guidelines...?

Mountain_Hamlet

@wim said:
GarageBand would be in disrepair by @NeuM's criteria.

Some might says it is depending on what you're trying to do with it...

Mountain_Hamlet

@johnfromberkeley said:

@HotStrange said:

@supadom said:

@HotStrange said:
With Samplr being included in Logic who knows what will happen there.

Come on, that ain’t Samplr!!

I don’t disagree I was just saying since the dev works at apple now and it was included in Logic who knows what that means for the standalone app. I doubt it’ll get AU treatment now.

Last time I checked, Marcos was working on MacOS by day and not part of the music group. Samplr is a labor of love. I believe current Apple rules allow him to keep it updated for compatibility, but not add new features. I guess you could argue as to whether AUv3 is “compatibility” or a new feature. Fun fact, I was at Apple during the Logic Pro for iPad launch party, but I was not invited, and I was at a meeting on a different campus, so I couldn’t try to crash LOL.

A thought came to mind regarding Samplr. Would any code that he uses when working with Apple have to stay with Apple? Like if he created a code piece when working with Apple could he then use that same piece to update Samplr? Tricky ground I would say.

GUB

I still use them as often as I need what they can do, and other apps can't. There are a number of IAA only apps that haven't been successfully replicated in AU form. I still buy them too.