New 4Pockets app: Surface Builder - MIDI Control Made Easy

Luxthor

day_empire

I no longer see the audio clip button functions after 1.4 update. That's primarily what I used SB for. I'm lost now. Any tips?

wim

@day_empire said:
I no longer see the audio clip button functions after 1.4 update. That's primarily what I used SB for. I'm lost now. Any tips?

I'm guessing you have Surface Builder loaded as a MIDI Effect. The audio options only show if you have it loaded as an audio input or FX.

tpj

Dealbreaker for now.

A rotary knob on a touch screen should work either VERTICAL or HORIZONTAL.
In surface builder they do BOTH at the same time.

This will simply make touch control worse. Because there is a dead space.
This will generate unintentional device input and a overall inaccurate and annoying touch interaction.

Rotary knobs for touch interaction behave like a vertical OR horizontal fader.

You go North or South. Not both. Otherwise i would have added a xy pad instead.

——-

I always wonder what happend here more than 8 years ago.
Still the best looking midi controller app UI design.

And there is still no app like touch osc / midi designer with all the amazing features and excellent touch sensitivity that has design components of this abandoned midi app art.

So Please please please. A dev designed this 10 years ago. Please continue his legacy🤣

wim

@tpj said:
Dealbreaker for now.

A rotary knob on a touch screen should work either VERTICAL or HORIZONTAL.
In surface builder they do BOTH at the same time.

This will simply make touch control worse. Because there is a dead space.
This will generate unintentional device input and a overall inaccurate and annoying touch interaction.

Rotary knobs for touch interaction behave like a vertical OR horizontal fader.

You go North or South. Not both. Otherwise i would have added a xy pad instead.

I don’t have a problem with the way they work. Many app knobs work that way. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Luxthor

MrStochastic

@Stochastically said:
So the first thing I tried is a button sending CC. And then run immediately into a problem:
I make the button, I can assign a particular CC, in this case CC 12. But then there's no way I can find to add a value to that CC12. ??
why can't I assign a different value?
In the button editor under function there's a drop down menu item labeled Data but it says n/a and doesn't work.

So being flummoxed immediately. Wouldn't we want to be able to make a button that sends a particular CC value?

@wim said:
Ahh ... you can do this if you use the Send Bulk MIDI function type. A little unintuitive and too many steps to set up, but it can be done. Thinking about it now, though, I can see why he did it this way.

So why is this necessary to do this way?

@Gavinski said:
Checking in... Been almost a week now, how are those using this feeling about it?

Well, I think I jumped the gun going for this app. Not being able to just easily make a button that sends a CC with a single value is a big disappointment for my particular use plans. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this can be useful?
Considering the complexity of the app and all the various controls, etc. I just can't fathom why something this simple should be ignored. You know that sound at the beginning of Paul's videos: 3,2,1, kablam! - That's actually the sound of my head exploding when I realized the main hope I had for this app was not happening.
Also, all the focus on audio clips; aren't there other apps that do that? I don't get it.

wim

@Stochastically said:

@Stochastically said:
So the first thing I tried is a button sending CC. And then run immediately into a problem:
I make the button, I can assign a particular CC, in this case CC 12. But then there's no way I can find to add a value to that CC12. ??
why can't I assign a different value?
In the button editor under function there's a drop down menu item labeled Data but it says n/a and doesn't work.

So being flummoxed immediately. Wouldn't we want to be able to make a button that sends a particular CC value?

@wim said:
Ahh ... you can do this if you use the Send Bulk MIDI function type. A little unintuitive and too many steps to set up, but it can be done. Thinking about it now, though, I can see why he did it this way.

So why is this necessary to do this way?

I didn't say "necessary". In my opinion it's clearer for the average user who wouldn't probably use more than one CC per button, while leaving the capability there for more advanced users.

@Gavinski said:
Checking in... Been almost a week now, how are those using this feeling about it?

Well, I think I jumped the gun going for this app. Not being able to just easily make a button that sends a CC with a single value is a big disappointment for my particular use plans. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this can be useful?
Considering the complexity of the app and all the various controls, etc. I just can't fathom why something this simple should be ignored. You know that sound at the beginning of Paul's videos: 3,2,1, kablam! - That's actually the sound of my head exploding when I realized the main hope I had for this app was not happening.

But you can do it. Provided you can re-assemble your poor exploded head. 😉

emc87

I have a portrait mode template in loopy pro on my iPhone and I wanted to create a simple surface with some Keys, drum pads, maybe some chord strips and some buttons for jamming on the go really quick…. Everything just keeps shrinking! No matter what I do, I tried different sizes and zooms and everyone I save a surface or preset everything gets smaller and smaller and I can’t resize anything vertically… I guess I need to dive deeper into tutorials and manuals and whatnot but I have very limited time and so many other apps I need to learn. I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. Seems like no matter what I do everything eventually shrinks.. setting the zoom works temporarily but I don’t want to have to open it every time and have to set the zoom before I jam. I’m sure that’s probably not what it’s suppose to be doing anyway. Anybody know what I’m doing wrong or is this a bug?

emc87

@emc87 said:
I have a portrait mode template in loopy pro on my iPhone and I wanted to create a simple surface with some Keys, drum pads, maybe some chord strips and some buttons for jamming on the go really quick…. Everything just keeps shrinking! No matter what I do, I tried different sizes and zooms and everyone I save a surface or preset everything gets smaller and smaller and I can’t resize anything vertically… I guess I need to dive deeper into tutorials and manuals and whatnot but I have very limited time and so many other apps I need to learn. I don’t understand what I’m doing wrong. Seems like no matter what I do everything eventually shrinks.. setting the zoom works temporarily but I don’t want to have to open it every time and have to set the zoom before I jam. I’m sure that’s probably not what it’s suppose to be doing anyway. Anybody know what I’m doing wrong or is this a bug?

wim

Try resizing the grid to better fit your phone's aspect ratio. You have a landscape sized grid displaying in portrait orientation. The plugin is probably taking some scaling hints to try to better fit the grid size. Also, try double-tapping to get to presentation mode to see if that makes any difference.

Are you saving the template after zooming it? I think I remember reading something about the zoom being saved with the template.

emc87

@wim said:
Try resizing the grid to better fit your phone's aspect ratio. You have a landscape sized grid displaying in portrait orientation. The plugin is probably taking some scaling hints to try to better fit the grid size. Also, try double-tapping to get to presentation mode to see if that makes any difference.

Are you saving the template after zooming it? I think I remember reading something about the zoom being saved with the template.

I’ve tried a lot of different grid sizes, the above is just an example of what I’m talking about. Yes I tried to save it with the zoom settings as well. Still shrinks everything as soon as I save it.

MrStochastic

@wim said:
But you can do it. Provided you can re-assemble your poor exploded head. 😉

okay; I'll give it a go after I pick up the pieces.

Poppadocrock

Is there a way to set up a preset share for this app. Maybe Patchstorage?

McD

@Stochastically said:

@wim said:
But you can do it. Provided you can re-assemble your poor exploded head. 😉

okay; I'll give it a go after I pick up the pieces.

Aha! Bulk Send can be a single CC event with its unique data. My button was blasting out a sequence of notes which of course sounded like a chord or a cluster with a synth target. There’s no timed sequence function is there? I was expecting record at first to play back a recording of MIDI… dumb users.

Mapping the Ports in AUM was tricky… using “Default Audio” on all ports makes it behave like I’m used to with an MIDI FX app.

Mo13

When say 2 buttons are grouped and also in dual state, both are assigned to be engaged by a program change, button 1 - PC 1, button 2 - PC 2, in this case the dual mode stops working, it doesn't deselect the button 1 with PC 1. Same gos for if I want to do it by a CC value instead of first sending 7F and afterwards a 0, I'm looking for the operation that it would respond to the same message on first and on second click, is there a way to make this work?

Luxthor

@emc87 said:

@wim said:
Try resizing the grid to better fit your phone's aspect ratio. You have a landscape sized grid displaying in portrait orientation. The plugin is probably taking some scaling hints to try to better fit the grid size. Also, try double-tapping to get to presentation mode to see if that makes any difference.

Are you saving the template after zooming it? I think I remember reading something about the zoom being saved with the template.

I’ve tried a lot of different grid sizes, the above is just an example of what I’m talking about. Yes I tried to save it with the zoom settings as well. Still shrinks everything as soon as I save it.

It’s the known limitation, because in edit mode you have only ‘pinch to zoom’. You are unable to slide the surface in any direction. After saving, the surface remembers zoom settings. But, when you turn off / wake iOS, everything is gone.

In Loopy Pro, the Surface position in the window is completely unreliable. I didn’t check how it behaves in AUM, I guess it’s the same.

EdZAB

@emc87 said:

@wim said:
Try resizing the grid to better fit your phone's aspect ratio. You have a landscape sized grid displaying in portrait orientation. The plugin is probably taking some scaling hints to try to better fit the grid size. Also, try double-tapping to get to presentation mode to see if that makes any difference.

Are you saving the template after zooming it? I think I remember reading something about the zoom being saved with the template.

I’ve tried a lot of different grid sizes, the above is just an example of what I’m talking about. Yes I tried to save it with the zoom settings as well. Still shrinks everything as soon as I save it.

I've encountered similar issues in Surface Control, but I was able to work through mine and get it to retain the correct appearance, at least in AUM. If you'd like to send some pictures of the setup, or a small sample Loopy project file, I'd be glad to take a look and see what I can do.

McD

Can we upload *.surface files to the forum for sharing by changing the extension to *.txt?

Can someone download the attachment here… rename the expensing (I use the ShortCut called “Rename File” but they say Audioshare can do this too). After changing the extension from *.txt to *.surface do you get a Surface that sends out CC 20 = 100 when pressed?

McD

I submitted the request for Surface Builder to be supported on PatchStorage. Please use this link and leave a comment to vote on it being accepted there:

https://patchstorage.com/requests/

While there also vote for Loopy Pro and SunVox (or SnVx if you hate vowels).

Luxthor

@McD said:
Can we upload *.surface files to the forum for sharing by changing the extension to *.txt?

Can someone download the attachment here… rename the expensing (I use the ShortCut called “Rename File” but they say Audioshare can do this too). After changing the extension from *.txt to *.surface do you get a Surface that sends out CC 20 = 100 when pressed?

Working fine, you could make a slightly larger button though.

McD

@Luxthor said:

@McD said:
Can we upload *.surface files to the forum for sharing by changing the extension to *.txt?

Can someone download the attachment here… rename the expensing (I use the ShortCut called “Rename File” but they say Audioshare can do this too). After changing the extension from *.txt to *.surface do you get a Surface that sends out CC 20 = 100 when pressed?

Working fine, you could make a slightly larger button though.

Excellent. What process did you use to change the extension?

I just downloaded the txt file and renamed it with the shortcut and shared it into Surface Builder on my phone…. I’m glad it functions as a standalone app too. I need a midi monitor standalone to test the additional midi output options.

Update: surface builder standalone sees Midifire as a midi target and in Midifire standalone the Midifire source plumbed to Event Monitor shows the CC 20 = 100 event. StreamByter if it’s standalone might work too.

Update: StreamByter standalone shows as target and it prints the event when the magnifying glass is active.
StreamByter is FREE.

Now I need to test to external midi hardware. Probably use Bluetooth but a usb is and option.

Luxthor

@McD said:

@Luxthor said:

@McD said:
Can we upload *.surface files to the forum for sharing by changing the extension to *.txt?

Can someone download the attachment here… rename the expensing (I use the ShortCut called “Rename File” but they say Audioshare can do this too). After changing the extension from *.txt to *.surface do you get a Surface that sends out CC 20 = 100 when pressed?

Working fine, you could make a slightly larger button though.

Excellent. What process did you use to change the extension?

I just downloaded the txt file and renamed it with the shortcut and shared it into Surface Builder on my phone…. I’m glad it functions as a standalone app too. I need a midi monitor standalone to test the additional midi output options.

From MacBook downloaded to iCloud, renamed file in Finder. On iPad, from Files drag’n’drop in Surface Builder import window. Then just opened the file from the same import window.

Edit: Same thing working from the iPad alone.

GeoTony

@McD , you can change the extension in Files on iOS these days. Just Rename and change it 😊

Luxthor

@GeoTony said:
@McD , you can change the extension in Files on iOS these days. Just Rename and change it 😊

You need to ’Show All Extensions’ first.

McD

@GeoTony said:
@McD , you can change the extension in Files on iOS these days. Just Rename and change it 😊

I wonder when that was added? IOS 16?

I bought VAPoly16 and it won’t load on 16.3 on my phone. Go figure.

EdZAB

@McD said:
I submitted the request for Surface Builder to be supported on PatchStorage. Please use this link and leave a comment to vote on it being accepted there:

https://patchstorage.com/requests/

While there also vote for Loopy Pro and SunVox (or SnVx if you hate vowels).

Thanks! Added a comment.

McD

While we wait for PatchStorage approval, I have created a simple MIDI C Chord button.
Not knowing how to send Note Offs, I just assigned the “Normal” MIDI batch send to send Note On’s with Velocity 0 after sending “Selected” MIDI batch with Note On’s and Velocity around 100.

Change the extension to surface to review this Surface… smaller button this time but not too much:

wim

Why don’t you guys just compress (zip) these rather than mess with renaming files? Just long press to compress the file. The forum will take it, and I think when downloaded it may automatically uncompress (I forget). If not, again it’s just long press to unzip.

Not to mention that you can bundle more than one file if you want.

McD

@wim said:
Why don’t you guys just compress (zip) these rather than mess with renaming files? Just long press to compress the file. The forum will take it, and I think when downloaded it may automatically uncompress (I forget). If not, again it’s just long press to unzip.

Not to mention that you can bundle more than one file if you want.

Good advice… here’s a zip containing the CC20=100 and C Chord Surfaces with *surface extensions for easier loading.