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Searching for the best cello
Hi there, I'm searching for some cello emulation on the iPad, could be either modeling or samples.
I already know about SWAM and the Korg Module Supreme Cello IAP, and I think I like the SWAM modeling more.
What do you think is the best cello app out there?
Thanks!
Comments
The studio strings in Logic has a really decent Cello if you already have Logic. If not, from what I’ve heard, SWAM is the best. I don’t own it personally but the demos are excellent. You could also check out Thumbjam and Beathawk. There’s some good SoundFonts out there as well.
StaffPad is another option, e.g.
Agree with both comments.
It also depends if you want something realistic while playing live with a controller or if it is for arrangement and you are ready to spend time tweaking parameters until you get something satisfying.
It also depends if you're after a solo or ensemble type of sound.
SWAM is great because you get access to a huge number of articulations and with a bit of tweaking, you can get realistic result especially if you understand well the physical instrument.
Staffpad has amazing third party libraries but comes at a high cost. Most of these are ensemble (I own Orchestral Tool and Spitfire libraries and they sound really great) the one mentioned above is another solo library which seems to sound good but didn't get it yet. @McD could chime in cause I think he owns it.
Staffpad has a steep learning curve but if you're comfortable with music notation, it is very rewarding at the end !
As for other alternatives on iOS, these are usually ok for one specific articulation (usually legato) but don't expect too much if you're looking for realism.
Also worth checking out Mini Orchestra and iSymphonic. They’re more focused on the entire ensemble but you can mute the sounds and play the Cello individually.
For solo Cello, Swam for sure. Apart from the standalone, there is also a cheaper Swam cello in Geoshred. MPE is really the way for these kinds of unfretted string instruments. If you don’t have an mpe controller, Geoshred will likely be the best option, otherwise you will need either a hardware mpe controller, a virtual mpe controller (actually, you could probably use one of the surfaces in Logic Pro) or a regular midi keyboard with an expression pedal.
Thank you for all the suggestions @HotStrange @MisplacedDevelopment @JanKun @Gavinski. Staffpad sounds very good but the price is very steep. I'll take a look at Geoshred too, but I suppose I'll go with SWAM since I have a keyboard with a modwheel.
You really will need to add an expression pedal to that setup if you want full expression. You're never going to be able to use the pitch bend and mod wheel to play expressively at the same time > @unlink said:
Can’t go wrong with SWAM stuff.
Oh, that make sense. I'll keep that in mind, perhaps it's time to finally buy an expression pedal which would be great for my synths too!
-Solo Cello in iSymphonic
-SWAM Cello, and/or also GeoSwam Cello with 3D Touch
-FingerFiddle
-Any Cello IAP in StaffPad, though maybe cost prohibitive compared to the others.
There’s not enough realism to KORG Module or BeatHawk cellos.
SWAM Cello available in the GeoShred app or the cellos found in the FingerFiddle app, but the FingerFiddle app requires more manual dexterity and an ability to bow and play on a fretboard, unlike the SWAM/GeoShred cellos.
Thumbjam’ s Cello is so expressive using it’s internal keyboard which has timbre variations on the vertical axis. Due to the products age it’s an IAA app. There are dozens of great instruments included.
The Tina Guo product inside StaffPad is amazing for one simple implementation detail; the vibrato is delayed and specific for each note. But StaffPad is all notated but it can import MIDI files and export audio.
SWAM is good but it’s like you are holding the cello vs sitting in the audience listening to a cello. As with piano products some prefer intimacy like this and some want a concert experience. Applying IR reverbs and some EQ can shift the sound into a concert venue and create a bit of space. SWAM does place more of the vibrato decision on the MIDI inputs typically using a mod wheel or MPE style controller. It also has adjustment controls for vibrato rate, onset delay and width so you can get something very expressive.
Most of the rest fail the vibrato behavior and annoy me to be honest and my heart goes to the cello of all the string soloists so I looked far and wide for good solutions. I need to check out that iSymphonic solo cello again I guess. Chances are I didn’t buy it yet after spending a lot to try and make an orchestra. I quit when I realized there wasn’t a single snare drum that would play just 1 note per input but only flams and rolls.
Good luck on your journey to realism.
If your keyboard has aftertouch you can use that for expression.
I had never heard of Mini Orchestra or the developer who made it. What do you think of their Just Piano?
After all these years, ThumbJam is still amazing, I knew it was an old app but the developer mentioned on another thread that it’s originally from 2009! Astonishing.
If anyone needs a great cello for computer, be sure to check out Emotional Cello:
https://www.bestservice.com/en/emotional_cello.html
I so wish they’d port it to iOS.
Fingerfiddle is very good, but has not been updated for three years.
My general feeling is that modeled winds are more responsive and realistic than modeled strings.
Here’s one I made with GeoSWAM cello:
https://brotherthomas1.bandcamp.com/track/trio-improvisation-in-the-saddest-of-all-keys-for-ronroco-sax-and-cello
What? Pianoteq is moddled and is identical on desktop and ios. So this statement makes no sense. Maybe you meant to say Pianoteq sounds better than gsi? As gsi is sample based, pianoteq not.
But yeah, electrorchestra sounds super cheesy to me. If you want cheesy and clearly artifical retro synth style orchestral sounds it might be a good choice, if you want something that sounds like an actual orchestra, just... No, hell no. You would definitely want to be using some Spitfire packs or whatever for that, and yes on iOS I don't think the Xinematix packs, Korg Module etc come anywhere remotely close to that level.
searching for the best something, you will very likely never find it. Advices from other might help a little trying things you didn't know, but in the end, the best something for Alice won't be the best something for Bob.
I personally gave up looking for the best anything in commercial products. They never really fit my needs.
For that cello thing, if you wanna go the commercial way, or doesn't know anyone who plays the cello: maybe you should settle for the one you can afford and get the best out of it.
If you have time, some knowledge of sampling software, and know someone with a cello who has a day or two for you (from personal experience, most music schools are pretty open to that kind of thing), ask them to play your score, or sample their instrument and make your own patch, note by note or sample shorts phrases.
In the end, the "quality" of the app or the samples is much less important than what you make the cello play (what is possible to play of the cello, how it is actually played, what string will play what depending of the score etc...) and how you can use midi CC to make it sound the way you want. As an example you can simulate legatos using carefully tuned pitch bend when the next note is on the same string, you can simulate the bow going back and forth with a retriever assigned to the end of the previous sample, you can simulate vibrato with a second layer of samples controlled by whatever cc you decide to use, you can manually add strings buzzing and finger noises, you can recreate different articulation with the same layer mixing with another cc.
I bet you don’t even hear the difference between an Upright and a Grand…
Ha! It’s really funny what’s references you’ve got - Modartt have been around for almost 20 years, so, if NOBODY use Pianoteq on desktop, can you then explain why they sold 100000 licences to pianolovers around the world…
But, you maybe know all the Pianoteq users around the world and can report here that they using something else…
Perhaps you can take your banjo and go playing with your relatives…
Well yeah, my idea was to have an overview of what people think is their best and get suggestions, and it kinda worked since I got a lot of feedback
I totally agree that the best tool is the one you can use effectively.
Thank you, these are very nice tips.
In case you own NanoStudio 2, the “Acoustic 2” IAP has some really decent cellos (and some really terrible ones as well)
an outlier recommendation is Thumbjam, IAA only unfortunately perhaps but this means host-able in AUM and Audiobus (our host here on the forum lest we forget)
as a glass surface instrument it’s incredibly expressive, w/vibrato and tremulo
Maybe just start your sentence with in your experience, rather than end it. Your experience is not representative. Pianoteq is very much used on desktop. I made records with Pianoteq even 15 years ago, and now it's way better than then. I've had conservatory trained pianists in the studio and they've commented (blind) on Pianoteq as liking it, and chosen it blind over Grandeur, Alicia's, Emotional Piano etc. (Releases on both major and indie alike, ranging across Sony to Defected and far smaller besides.) I don't need any multi gb any more, used them on dozens of records previously, but Pianoteq has replaced them all. The fact that it's on iOS is just making my life even better
+1 to Pianoteq on any platform. I greatly prefer it to any sample-based package because it not only sounds, but also FEELS and responds like a real piano which is something I don't get from even the most expensive sample libraries. I had to giggle when I saw the comment about no one using it on desktop. It's been my studio go-to for quite some time now, so I'm thrilled to have it on iOS now too.
But back on topic, SWAM with aftertouch for vibrato is incredible. Again, I prefer this to any sample-based cello I've tried and I've pretty much tried them all.
sometimes one fool show up in the threads and wants to be taken seriously, as “no one use Pianoteq on desktop”…