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I did discover something that I found a little baffling, and about which I’ll write the developer and make a suggestion: the main decay/release controls aren’t themselves controllable by Midi. In the manual he says that few controls have been exposed to CC because the nature of the method can so easily get out of hand, but this one is pretty straightforward, and unlike the model controls doesn’t result in an audible moment of recalculation when it’s modified quickly. I think this really needs to be implemented.
The new update to knob options is a big improvement - the knobs still look jerky, this jumping seems to be part of the UI - but they actually are working well for me, set to vertical only (change this in Settings)
Haven’t had a chance to try since the update but definitely gonna do that tonight.
The dev website listed on the App Store leads to a completely unrelated website.
Is there a user manual available? Not, preferably, the built-in one 4Pockets seems to favor, but a searchable, usable one?
Good manuals are becoming a make-or-break for me- at age 76 I don’t have endless hours to watch tutorials to get answers to simple specific questions. Looking at you, 4Pockets and Kai Aras!
MPE support coming…
Can also confirm that this is a million times better now! Bought it and immediately made some patches. Also great news re MPE! 😺🎹🎸🌈🐬🚀
HST, I would love this option to control parameters via horizontal or vertical touch only to be in all Paul’s other apps, but especially Copperhead..
(EDIT, as per @tentype 's comment, confirmed as Linnstrument friendly, much of what follows is redundant speculation on my part
I see 1.03 with MPE support is showing up in the store.
I should hopefully have a spare 15 quid tomorrow for this!
Can't wait to try it.
It will be interesting to compare notes with other Linnstrumentalists on here.
It seems from Paul's video he is using KB-1 app, and for all we know there maybe a quirky difference between implementations,
one thing that was notable to me, is that he has got the support for CC74 but in his video doesn't use it, whereas most of us on hardware do, especially on Linnstrument.
When playing more traditional modeled sounds like Swam the inclination I think is to express via vibrato and bends on x axis, at least that's what I lean in to, whereas when I start to play more synthetic sounds and have the ability to map really timbrally effecting changes on y axis (cc74) I think we tend to really go for it, be that filter cut off, or FM depth, or something similar, (and so with physical modeling could mean being able to create madly otherworldly physics bending on y axis) which on the Linnstrument means wonderfully small movements of the finger tip up and down within the limits of a pad make giant timbral differences, hence on Tal-Uno-LX cc74 is hardwired to filter cut off and you can make it huge, and so on Tera Pro cc74 is literally labelled internally as MPE Timbre, in Logic Pro its labelled "brightness" and thats mirrored in all kinds of apps. cc74 matters, and as Paul literally didn't use it, I'm ready for the implementation to have a quirk.
I note that on the Roli devices (seaboard, and blocks) you move your finger much much further on the y axis and is not quite the same thing I don't think, because you would move your whole hand quite "aggressively" to get the same amount of difference as the linnstrument pad-limits (feature, not limit! i would argue)
TLDR, cc74 matters a lot to Linnstrumentalists and I wonder if we may end up working out the kinks of the implementation with Paul, but, I'm speaking too early as I haven't tried it yet... roll on tomorrow
..
He's using Velocity Keyboard (Blue Mangoo). I would try WoodTroller by Woodman as it's the newest of app MPE controllers. I'm tempted as well to go for this app now although I had planned to wait till he drops the price, he always do. I'll have to think a little bit longer 😂 KB-1 Should work fine too but it has had problems that I don't know if they've been fixed.
You can adjust the parameters of the curves on the seaboard so you can make smaller movements on u axis trigger big changes in cc74. I haven't used a Linnstrument so I don't know if it can match that. Yes, weird he didn't use it. Fingers crossed it's a good implementation, if not write to him and hopefully he'll fix it! After all the very implementation of mpe in this update comes from user suggestions I think
No, I genuinely can't recommend Woodtroller. It's a weird impkemention for anyone used to how a hardware mpe controller u axis works. I think the idea is fundamentally flawed.
Ah my mistake. Thanks for spotting.
Personally I have no need for any on screen mpe controllers so that part of your comment is probably more of use to others
though.
Noted, good to know as far as advising anyone else.
as an aside / thread hijack, correct me if i'm wrong here but aftertouch pressure could only be done with a pencil if using an app, right? so you couldn't actually do mpe (as in p, for polyphonic) aftertouch with an on screen app, or i've got that wrong? not that that is a massive deal, just a quibble. like, in geoshred, can you do polyAT on the screen?
(I just love my linnstruments
obviously a not typical amount of money to spend but im glad i did. the 128 is near perfect.
)
I've had Pushes, launchpads (admittedly not MPE, but still grid controllers usable for harmonic and melodic playing), and lightpad blocks, and played the seaboard but never owned one.
haven't played the madrona, or osmose, or continuum (can't afford that thing yet) or eigenharp or osmose so its not like i know for a fact linnstrument is best,,, (but it probably is
i'll try to do a video at some point demonstrating. it's really like a string player like micro movement of the finger tip within the boundaries of a small pad. and as a newbie to it, is too much, is out of control and my inclination was to disable it because the tiniest movements were huge difference, i would have a pigments preset that from one press to another, would be some roaring growling bright skrillex noise, to the next one some dull heavily filtered sub, but over a few months i came to be glad for that, and its just a matter of developing the control. with the lightpads and the seaboard you would move across a much further distance for the full 127, i can see how you would make it less than that, but im not sure you could make it more, ie make the whole range happen in a far small amount of y distance than is the actual physical range,., and thus barely move your finger tip a few millimeters and get the full 0-127. you can see why a piano interface user might not want that, and why the argument for different implementations, but ive come to appreciate the linnstrument version
I've never used HW MPE, well my M-Audio has aftertouch but it's real bad. I just loved how easy it was to setup using one iPad controlling another. I assume you have informed Woodman on your view as he seem real open to user input(?)
I have, yes, but I don't think he has been able to figure out a way to improve the design yet.
Well, velocity keyboard kind of gets round that by trying to use how much of your finger touches the screen to interpret the amount of pressure you're using. You need to use it on a pillow or something to get a bit more give. I know though that the Geoshred people looked into adopting a similar thing and they felt it just wasn't possible to do it with enough accuracy to satisfy them. It certainly couldn't compare to the control you would get with your linnstrument but it's definitely better than nothing!
Ah yeah that makes sense, I think that's how capacitive touch instrument designers did it? Like on the arturia?
As per the arturia microfreak questions page:
https://support.arturia.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405748052626-MicroFreak-General-Questions
"The Pressure value varies with the surface area of your finger in contact with the keyboard."
So that does make sense, probably a much older design precedent. I think Bog Moog was doing capacitive touch things decades ago, and it's probably in other things.
I helped Paul talk through and test his MPE implementation on Linnstrument and with Velocity Keyboard. Works great!
Amazing thanks for letting us (me!) know!!! Getting it tomorrow yay
I gotta put a plug in for velocity keyboard. It's awesome. Definitely the closest in "feel" to the Linnstrument. I personally find the Geoshred keyboard to be awesome in Geoshred, but buggy as an auv3 controller, and kb-1 is pretty good but not as configurable (mainly not as nicely resizable) as VK. I plunked around with those 2 for a while, but it wasn't until I found VK that I started going on field trips with my iPad and leaving the Linnstrument at home. Now I flesh out all my songs on the iPad only and use the Linnstrument for performance or re-recording a more complex midi part, VK handles it all.
is "6v" ie up in tritones one of the layout options? i switched from 4ths a while back.
the portability thing is why i also got a linnstrument 128, leave the 200 at home, 128 goes most places, about as big as a laptop.
i don't imagine using vk much given no velocity or AT, but nevertheless worth knowing. if it has 6v layout could be worth it for occasional things (flights and trains)
@Gavinski said:
Its cool.
I can make mpe synths. With a 3- 4 inch keyboard.
Although 3 ipads now being optimised for live jams.
I needed to be able to control solos etc of 12 Euclidean drum tracks in Drambo and its better than launchpad ( because I can now use launchpad customs for 7 synths ) Without switching customs for drum control then to synths.
But even with controlling the drums and song via screen. On the same screen I got a 4 inch mpe controller. Some loopy donuts to record mpe and a xequence pads triggering amen breaks.
No other mpe controller would work for this.
I don't want to derail this thread too much, but VK does have a tritones option, and velocity and aftertouch work surprisingly well on my iPad air 5th gen.
Thanks! Useful info
Hi @Tentype ,
Just got this.
By any chance can you explain the cc74 implementation to me?
It seems to me that it only works if you map it to either cc1 or cc2, and thus, is not actually per note. Say for example MPE is on, cc74 is mapped to cc1 and mod wheel is routed to exciter noise, then this is overall exciter noise and not per note exciter noise.
There's no direct cc74 mapping that I can see, am I missing it?
As per my earlier posts, cc74 matters, y axis motion to do something like filter cut off is sort of MPE101, but it doesn't seem possible here.
Can you suggest a useful/satisfying/typical implementation of cc74 in stringlab?
@Bruques the typical MPE implementation assigns a new midi channel to each note for the duration of the note, so the CC values will be per note and not overall levels. In the video they set Velocity Keyboard to MPE 4 - one channel per string.
Yes I know that but, cc1 is not per note, I'm using my Linnstrument, I'm using stringlab, I know what per note is and how it works, and when cc74 is mapped to cc1 and when by extension cc1 is assigned to exciter noise, exciter noise is overall it is not per note. (MPE Implenting is nothing new to me)
Cc74 just happens to be the value assigned to that. There's nothing special about Cc74 per se. It's just convention to assign it in a certain way. As Bleep just said, any midi cc can be per note with a hardware or virtual mpe controller.
Sure, it doesn't matter whether there's nothing special about 74 though, and if cc1 can be per note, it presently is not per note. cc74 as being per note is a norm. cc1 not being per note is a norm.
in this case, cc1 is not per note, or, the whole implemention of aspects of the synth modules is not per note. pitch, is per note, exciter noise is not per note.
try it for yourself. cc74, which in stringlab, has to be mapped to either cc1 or 2, otherwise it's not wired to anything, then y axis per note gestures on a controller sending cc74, and the stringlab articulation assignment of that to something, is it per note? for me, it is not.
I want to go back a bit and explain that this is Paul's first MPE implementation, and he hasn't really used MPE himself until now. It came about because I wrote him personally basically begging for it for this synth and providing as many resources as I could to explain how it would be done, and could be done as easy as possible.
My goal was to entice him into even a partial implementation and go from there since it can be daunting to figure out a new feature as a developer, especially if it's not something you use or even considered using.
I sent Paul the entire MPE implementation guide, and descriptions of how it all works. And I pushed specifically for (if NOTHING else):
Now those of us who use MPE know what we'd be getting and know what we'd be missing here. Basically if he'd just gone with my suggestions we'd have a synth that could be played with an MPE controller without having to remap everything all the time. Useful, certainly not the be-all-end-all, but at least not annoying to work into your setup.
Clearly a pro developer though, he figured it out super fast and implemented per note aftertouch, 48 PB range, per note pitch bend, and mapping cc74 to cc1. Pretty much in a day.
Basically this means that, as you discovered, cc74 is not per note. Now I'm not a developer and I'm not sure exactly what that would take to implement. As it stands when you map the mod wheel to a parameter you can see the real time change of the knob suggesting to me that there's no way currently to have multiple independent values affecting the mod wheel targets. You can visually see the knob fighting multiple values. So there's a fundamental change to how the synth accepts cc1 that would have to happen before we could get per note cc74 with this implementation. It's not impossible though, and shouldn't affect standard mod wheel usage for poor saps that aren't MPE endowed. 😂
Paul is aware of the issue, and obviously it's up to him how or if he decides to correct it. I encourage people greatly to write him with suggestions. Before I wrote him about MPE he considered it still a fad and likely not worth the effort.
Stringlab is not done. At the very least there's many more modulation targets to make accessible, including cutoff and other beauties I'd love to get my knobs on 😉.
In short, is per note cc74 here? No. I think it could easily be on its way though. Is there plenty of things to do in this with the MPE available? I think so, and I applaud Paul for looking into it even though he doesn't even own a hardware MPE controller.