Entonal Studio (iPad) out now! (microtonal playground)

Pxlhg

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@cuscolima said:
Is there a list of IOS synths that support microtonal?

But why make app lists when Entonal Studio makes any app microtonal! The real question now is whether a certain app supports MPE cause that’s needed for polyphonic microtonality

I almost made the same comment as you - but then I figured maybe he was thinking he might already have enough microntonal stuff, perhaps with MPE support too, so he would maybe pass on this app

Btw, I just tried loading a synth in the standalone. I tried to add Nambu. Followed (my interpretation) of the manual - enabled Nambu, then tried to select it in the same dropdown as ‘simple synth’ - but it is not showing there, can’t select it. Has anyone managed to load an AUv3 synth in this? If so could you describe how you did it please?

You open Nambu from the list within the app and see that the blue dot on the left is lit. Leave the list and choose Nambu from that same menu, now present under synth. To be clear, do not open Nambu separately.

Gavinski

@cuscolima said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@cuscolima said:

@aoverflow said:

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@cuscolima said:
Is there a list of IOS synths that support microtonal?

But why make app lists when Entonal Studio makes any app microtonal! The real question now is whether a certain app supports MPE cause that’s needed for polyphonic microtonality

I almost made the same comment as you - but then I figured maybe he was thinking he might already have enough microntonal stuff, perhaps with MPE support too, so he would maybe pass on this app

Makes sense. By the way I think there’s still a case for owning entonal studio even if someone already owns enough micro-tunable instruments - namely, the workflow should be a lot quicker. I haven’t tried it though so I’d be glad if anyone shares their experience of whether that’s the case or not.

This is where I think there is a little confusion. I don’t think that Entonal can make any app microtonal… Only the synth that have the appropriate “engine” can do it. For example, it doesn’t work with iSEM but will work with Bleass Megalit

I assumed that it works by sending midi pitch bend, and thus should work with any app that sufficiently responds to pitch bend. Is this wrong?

Oh yes, it works but I had to switch from mpe to midi

Yes - manual has a section explaining that you need to look out for that kind of thing

Gavinski

@Pxlhg said:

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@cuscolima said:
Is there a list of IOS synths that support microtonal?

But why make app lists when Entonal Studio makes any app microtonal! The real question now is whether a certain app supports MPE cause that’s needed for polyphonic microtonality

I almost made the same comment as you - but then I figured maybe he was thinking he might already have enough microntonal stuff, perhaps with MPE support too, so he would maybe pass on this app

Btw, I just tried loading a synth in the standalone. I tried to add Nambu. Followed (my interpretation) of the manual - enabled Nambu, then tried to select it in the same dropdown as ‘simple synth’ - but it is not showing there, can’t select it. Has anyone managed to load an AUv3 synth in this? If so could you describe how you did it please?

You open Nambu from the list within the app and see that the blue dot on the left is lit. Leave the list and choose Nambu from that same menu, now present under synth. To be clear, do not open Nambu separately.

Yes - as I explained in a post further down, it was initially some mistake on my part, it is clear now how to do it, even if the whole experience of searching for apps etc is a bit clunky. UI could do with a lot of optimisations frankly

HotStrange

How’s everyone liking this so far?

Pxlhg

@Gavinski said:

@Pxlhg said:

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@cuscolima said:
Is there a list of IOS synths that support microtonal?

But why make app lists when Entonal Studio makes any app microtonal! The real question now is whether a certain app supports MPE cause that’s needed for polyphonic microtonality

I almost made the same comment as you - but then I figured maybe he was thinking he might already have enough microntonal stuff, perhaps with MPE support too, so he would maybe pass on this app

Btw, I just tried loading a synth in the standalone. I tried to add Nambu. Followed (my interpretation) of the manual - enabled Nambu, then tried to select it in the same dropdown as ‘simple synth’ - but it is not showing there, can’t select it. Has anyone managed to load an AUv3 synth in this? If so could you describe how you did it please?

You open Nambu from the list within the app and see that the blue dot on the left is lit. Leave the list and choose Nambu from that same menu, now present under synth. To be clear, do not open Nambu separately.

Yes - as I explained in a post further down, it was initially some mistake on my part, it is clear now how to do it, even if the whole experience of searching for apps etc is a bit clunky. UI could do with a lot of optimisations frankly

Well, I didn't check if you'd written anything further while testing, here I was thinking I made your day. Jokes aside, Nambu (good choice) sounds absolutely amazing (using Spider presets). All this stuff is new to me although I have some of Nadzharovs apps.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

mistercharlie

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

This looks amazing. Thanks!

elemental

@Mo13 said:
Just bought, was expecting some minimal midi control like over switching user scales or is that already there but just not exposed yet?

No that is a much requested feature for the desktop plugin as well and definitely coming soon!

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

Looks interesting - auv3?

elemental

EDIT - I see this has been answered with a screenshot already!

After you select the plugin in the manager, it should appear under its category, underneath Simple Synth. You will need to press on the category name to see it.

@Gavinski said:

Btw, I just tried loading a synth in the standalone. I tried to add Nambu. Followed (my interpretation) of the manual - enabled Nambu, then tried to select it in the same dropdown as ‘simple synth’ - but it is not showing there, can’t select it. Has anyone managed to load an AUv3 synth in this? If so could you describe how you did it please?

elemental

This is my first AUv3 related release and seems there’s more for me to learn about this amazing ecosystem.

Feedback from you guys is really valuable.

And anyone who’s interested in beta testing updates please shoot me a pm with your email. Looks like there will be a lot in the coming weeks!

@Gavinski said:
But definitely worth waiting for some more detailed reports back on - can it run in background mode for example? Seems not, I can’t find a setting to enable it. That means if I want to play it with a good onscreen keyboard like Xequence Keys, I need to run stage manager, and not all iPads can do that. No mention of background mode in the manual. Looks highly likely that this needs some updates to work in a way that many iOS users might expect. I can load Xequence AU Keys inside Entonal, but its UI is completely messed up when I load it in there and it is unplayable.

It does play well using stage manager with Xequence Keys loaded in AUM though

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

Looks interesting - auv3?

Dunno but I doubt it. I think Doug did a video on it once.

Gavinski

@elemental said:
After you select the plugin in the manager, it should appear under its category, underneath Simple Synth. You will need to press on the category name to see it.

@Gavinski said:

Btw, I just tried loading a synth in the standalone. I tried to add Nambu. Followed (my interpretation) of the manual - enabled Nambu, then tried to select it in the same dropdown as ‘simple synth’ - but it is not showing there, can’t select it. Has anyone managed to load an AUv3 synth in this? If so could you describe how you did it please?

Yes - I will edit my comment above to mention I figured it out already, thanks.

elemental

Agreed, although the design did take into account that it would eventually land on an iPad, it’s certainly not yet been optimised yet. It’s mostly a direct port from the desktop plugin with a few tweaks for touch screen usability.

Please do email me if you have any suggestions you want to share.

@Gavinski said:

UI could do with a lot of optimisations frankly

Gavinski

Definitely cool though - so does anyone know whether, when loaded as a midi FX in AUM, there is another keyboard app that does this? In terms of keyboards I can only think of Keyboaredo mentioned earlier, but that’s strictly an EDO thing only. I haven’t really played around much with microtonal stuff to be honest.

Gavinski

This is very well reviewed by the way. Not sure I see much benefit in using the standalone if you have a daw or host like aum to load it in as a midi fx. An app like AUM will also give much more flexibility in terms of resizing of keyboards, instrument windows etc. But this does indeed seem to have some really interesting features. It's well past my bedtime but I think I will be spending a fair chunk of time with this after I get up!

HotStrange

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

Looks interesting - auv3?

It is but it only loads as a very basic piano as an AU. And the piano at the core isn’t great so it’s not worth it in that regard. Usually works fine an IAA and standalone though. It’s definitely a very interesting app. But running Just Piano or Pianoteq through Replicant 3, Pitch Drift, and a reverb can give you really similar results.

If the AU is every updated I’ll probably download again but I have it uninstalled right now. The space it takes up wasn’t worth it considering I can use other apps for that sound.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@HotStrange said:

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

Looks interesting - auv3?

It is but it only loads as a very basic piano as an AU. And the piano at the core isn’t great so it’s not worth it in that regard. Usually works fine an IAA and standalone though. It’s definitely a very interesting app. But running Just Piano or Pianoteq through Replicant 3, Pitch Drift, and a reverb can give you really similar results.

If the AU is every updated I’ll probably download again but I have it uninstalled right now. The space it takes up wasn’t worth it considering I can use other apps for that sound.

The microtonal capabilities were the original draw of bitklavier for me. If this new app will work as a sub that would open up the opportunity to use other pianos to get those tunings.

Artj

If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

HotStrange

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@HotStrange said:

@Gavinski said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@mistercharlie said:
I’m kind of into the idea that I could plug in a midi piano keyboard, put this between the keyboard and an app and play microtonal piano.

Beautiful icon too.

Check this out:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitklavier/id1039640781

Looks interesting - auv3?

It is but it only loads as a very basic piano as an AU. And the piano at the core isn’t great so it’s not worth it in that regard. Usually works fine an IAA and standalone though. It’s definitely a very interesting app. But running Just Piano or Pianoteq through Replicant 3, Pitch Drift, and a reverb can give you really similar results.

If the AU is every updated I’ll probably download again but I have it uninstalled right now. The space it takes up wasn’t worth it considering I can use other apps for that sound.

The microtonal capabilities were the original draw of bitklavier for me. If this new app will work as a sub that would open up the opportunity to use other pianos to get those tunings.

True. It was definitely a selling point for me as well. I’ll probably download it again when I upgrade iPads but I needed the extra space and already have other apps that accomplish that. It’s a unique one though! Would love so see the dev fix the AU issues.

Gavinski

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

In AUM it just works great out of the box to play polyphonic if you set it up to send out mpe, even if the synth receiving is not mpe. I guess this is because by default any instrument in AUM is receiving note data on all channels, MPE just means it is sending out the note data on channels 2-16 and channel 1 is being used for all the other midi info. Not sure how it would play with other hosts, I generally just stick to AUM

sigma79

@Gavinski said:

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

In AUM it just works great out of the box to play polyphonic if you set it up to send out mpe, even if the synth receiving is not mpe. I guess this is because by default any instrument in AUM is receiving note data on all channels, MPE just means it is sending out the note data on channels 2-16 and channel 1 is being used for all the other midi info. Not sure how it would play with other hosts, I generally just stick to AUM

Apps like woodtroller send mpe data on midi ch 1.

If DAWS make editable recorded mpe. Maybe easier to implement if midi ch 1.

Midi mapping controllers. Even when Drambo tracks can be midi per track or midi always and also block sections of a controller ( notes ) but still recieve cc. Which aum probably can, apart from, midi channel select per track or midi always.

Bound to be a conflict at some point but maybe it will be easier to make an editable mpe channel.

aoverflow

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

That’s what I thought as well. But then I realized that playing a new note on a monophonic patch cuts all the sound of the previous note, regardless of the current stage of its ADSR. Hope that makes sense

Gavinski

@aoverflow said:

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

That’s what I thought as well. But then I realized that playing a new note on a monophonic patch cuts all the sound of the previous note, regardless of the current stage of its ADSR. Hope that makes sense

I think most people will want to play monophonic instruments more, but it's easy. Just make sure output is set to mpe. That will mean you will get polyphony for up to 16 notes at a time you do not need to be sending that midi to an mpe instrument for this to be used to play polyphonically

aoverflow

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

That’s what I thought as well. But then I realized that playing a new note on a monophonic patch cuts all the sound of the previous note, regardless of the current stage of its ADSR. Hope that makes sense

I think most people will want to play monophonic instruments more, but it's easy. Just make sure output is set to mpe. That will mean you will get polyphony for up to 16 notes at a time you do not need to be sending that midi to an mpe instrument for this to be used to play polyphonically

Does the DAW still need to support MPE for that?

Gavinski

@aoverflow said:

@Gavinski said:

@aoverflow said:

@Artj said:
If this uses pitch bend data to create microtonal shift, will it cause a bit of a problem with patches that contain somewhat long release, even if it's monophonic? Thanks.

That’s what I thought as well. But then I realized that playing a new note on a monophonic patch cuts all the sound of the previous note, regardless of the current stage of its ADSR. Hope that makes sense

I think most people will want to play monophonic instruments more, but it's easy. Just make sure output is set to mpe. That will mean you will get polyphony for up to 16 notes at a time you do not need to be sending that midi to an mpe instrument for this to be used to play polyphonically

Does the DAW still need to support MPE for that?

Not sure tbh... I just know about aum, I know next to nothing about any other hosts. AUM for the win!

Gavinski

I am enjoying this immensely! Has anyone else run into this problem though - I have a few different AUM sessions, fairly light ones with some other midi apps, Entonal, and just 1 instrument app - Pianoteq, or Nambu for example. But in several of the sessions, every time I open them, Entonal loads dead, so it has to be reloaded, and of course that means its settings are then lost.

Pxlhg

@elemental Hey, I've been experimenting quite a bit in AUM and having a lot of fun. One problem though and it's a little bit serious: every time I reload a saved project, Entonal is crashed meaning the connections are broken and so is the preset I used as everything get reset on reload. I'm on an iPad M1 11' and iOS 17.02.
Here's the log from the latest opening of a project, hope it helps.

elemental

I also noticed this issue today with it crashing when reloading a project. I will get that fixed ASAP.

@Pxlhg said:
@elemental Hey, I've been experimenting quite a bit in AUM and having a lot of fun. One problem though and it's a little bit serious: every time I reload a saved project, Entonal is crashed meaning the connections are broken and so is the preset I used as everything get reset on reload. I'm on an iPad M1 11' and iOS 17.02.
Here's the log from the latest opening of a project, hope it helps.

Pxlhg

@elemental said:
I also noticed this issue today with it crashing when reloading a project. I will get that fixed ASAP.

Sounds awesome, thank you.