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Comments
Totally agree - compared to the trainwreck posting that goes on every day at KVR, this forum is incredibly well-behaved and respectful.
I got banned there once for calling another poster a pedophile when he made a sexual comment about my then 5 year old daughter to bait me. Apparently I broke a rule but he didn’t. Haven’t been back there in many years.
Then there are favorites of the mods who can say anything they like and never even get a reprimand. Occasionally they get a good mod there, it they usually end up leaving and it goes back to 100% poor moderation again.
Definitely not trying to address all the points you made here. But, only speaking for myself, I will say this: Although I am a bit anti-Apple, and although I quit my Logic sub within the first 2 months, I was genuinely extemely excited to see Logic Pro coming to the platform. Given the fact that I'm youtubing in this space, it would have been great for me, on a personal level, to have liked Logic and to have seen it do well. I was very open to it, initially, but I quickly discovered several things:
Many aspects of it paled in comparison to AUM for my personal needs.
Some of the unfinished aspects, like the poor UI design of Sculpture etc REALLY rubbed me up the wrong way.
There were people who were anti Logic from the get-go. There were many others though who, like me, were excited by the news but ultimately disappointed. Again, not to say that it wasn't a gamechanger for some, and I can see also how the AI mastering feature introduced in a recent update is huge for many. If the UIs of Sculpture etc ever get finished I'll happily give Logic another go. Unless that happens, I doubt I personally will have the motivation.
Sorry to hear you felt bad btw. I do think that there were also a lot of people here who maintained their excitement about Logic. It definitely turned into a divisive time for the Forum though, that's quite true. With hindsight, I also think, as some others have mentioned, that perhaps the Off Topic, Go Nuts section of the Forum was, in the end, a really bad idea. This despite the fact that, at the time, at least initially, I was in favour of it. However, I now think it caused far more trouble than it was worth, sowing deep divisions between many members of the forum that exist to this day.
Even though most people here are making their music on iPhones, iPads or Macs... LOL. I don't get it either. I've used PCs and I've used Android... and I prefer Apple's offerings.
Frankly, I think Apple probably do better than both hardware and software competitors, so I don’t understand why so many here feel the need to complain quite so much.
Things could be a lot worse if we were relying on Samsung tablets and apps from the Play Store to make music…
That could be true in some cases, but I wouldn't say most are anti-Apple as such, but rather annoyed by certain aspects of their business practice. I'm actually very pro-Apple overall but regularly complain about things such as:
Those are real things, that we as a tiny minority of their user base are more sensitive about.
It's easy to conflate complaining about particular things with being anti-Apple in general, but for me at least, that's far from the truth.
Well said Wim (as usual!)
Thanks @Gavinski.
Kind of pedantic I feel. But couldn't keep my mouth shut. 😂
Yup…I chalk it up to things I’ll likely never understand…and shouldn’t waste time trying…can’t even say the L word without getting impaled 😵 but back to ze music
Sure, Apple isn't perfect and they deserve the gales of criticism they arguably earn on occasion, but speaking for myself my music-making life would be worse off without them.
Other than mindless noodling on my guitar, mine would be (and was for many years) dead in the water. I reached a point where I simply could not create a thing on desktop. I still can't. Every ounce of creativity just vanishes the moment I sit down to one. The consequence of working 10+ hour days for 30 years supporting them I suppose.
iOS changed that and gave me back a valuable part of my life. I have Apple to thank for that. If I hadn't been so dumb and had invested more in Apple rather than other wasted investments years ago I could also have them to thank for a more comfortable retirement as well. 😂
Well said. LOL.
Yes before politics was banned it could get pretty ugly around here. And it would sometimes pop up out of nowhere in the middle of a thread and get a good conversation nuked.
Jfc I’m glad I don’t go there anymore wow
@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Heh, this one connected, except backwards: Last time I wrote something I regretted I was totally sober. I didn't realize my faux pas until I ate a gummi a few days later.
I am wondering "is this a problem"?
Is it actually something that needs to be fixed? Are we "chasing ratings", to use a TV term.
This is why I keep coming back here. This response. The context. Had I read this response as quotes from a social media repost surrounded by faux borders, it would have been forgotten as soon I scrolled. THANK YOU, for this contribution.
Lol, fair enough. You do know you're going to end up in the "that's what she said" thread, right? 😂
Thanks for the encouragement! I will meditate on this. 🧘🏻♂️
It was @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr who provided the encouragement. But as I said, the context, the entire conversation, it is inspiring.
While I hate it when I see rudeness and toxicity, I can sort of relate to what you just said.
Is it even possible these days to have any kind of honest public discourse without some people getting offended? I don't think it is.
Common kindness and politeness should be the norm, but do we have to give up on speaking our opinions for fear of being called out as haters? How far does it make sense to go in diluting what we talk about or having to couch everything we say in disclaimers that we're not judging others who disagree ... and then still get called out by someone?
Face it. If we state opinions there are going to be people who feel we're attacking them because they don't share those opinions. If we don't think everything is wonderful all the time there are going to be people who feel there's too much negativity. If we make product suggestions we mean as helpful, people are going to feel like we're never satisfied, are "entitled", or are attacking developers.
I'm trying to adjust to be more sensitive to how easy it is to offend people these days. But I'll be honest, I think the increasing need to water things down reduces the useful information that can be had in more open discussion.
Well said. Any kind of public discussion is really a minefield these days. It's not surprising that people get tired of it and at times just decide to exit entirely, or that sometimes people lose their patience and bahave badly. As others have said though, the ABF is still relatively great compared to many other spaces on the internet, imo at least. The questions that opens this thread is still a valid one though (take the 'imo' part as a given lol) - 1 Was it different or better before, if so, in what way? 2. What might have caused any negative changes? 3. What can we do, if anything, to improve the atmosphere?
@Gavinski - my own opinion is that there's nothing unusual about this little fluctuation ... if there even is one. And I don't think anything concrete needs to change. Talking about it is a reminder to try harder to be polite, though, so that's useful. 👍🏼
Indeed
Absolutely agree, when @Sebastian was around frequently on the forum, debates were very broad and sometimes fractious, but often respect of different viewpoints was maintained, maybe this is no longer possible due to the increased membership of the forum.
All I’m saying is offense is inevitable these days, so other than trying to remember to be polite, I don’t think fretting about it too much is necessary or productive.
I’ll repeat my guess:
Logic Pro is what different in a bad way. Why ? Aside from being strangely divisive, Who knows . But it started after Hilda’s (huge celebratory vibe; that’s when I joined and participated a lot) positive crest , and then soon after once Logic came out, it’s like whatever anyone was letting simmer and hold back was just unleashed when triggered.
I think to improve the atmosphere, everyone should upload a creation. I think that would increase morale, open discussion between others that normally wouldn’t cross paths, and it’s the easiest and best way to forging online musical friendships. The best friends I made online was from this website. If we see each other as musical Allies , all in this together, from different places and backgrounds , all contributing a different piece of the puzzle , some more technically and some more artistically, we’ll learn to appreciate each other as members rather than user names we agree with
It will also have the dual function of flushing out bots trolls and spammers. If someone doesn’t upload at least one creation consider it a bot and limit posts until the creation section has a submission . That puts the account on “supervision” and if any trolling is discovered just drop the account for “non musical contributions + negative comments/personal attack” instead of bans for one bad move, it’ll be more like a series so we won’t get to this point where the community feels strife at others minor squabbles
If people contribute, entitlement will stop, people will feel less invincible , they will expose themselves to criticism both positive and negative, thereby leveling the playground for everyone , relatively speaking . It also has a good purpose too: it’s a music forum so we’ll hear music. I know I would appreciate good and bad criticism either way
It’s just an idea . You asked so I proposed a suggestion but aside from that, Happy Holidays everyone ! I hope you all have an amazing Christmas, New Year, and all others happy holidays too. I’m sure with the season it’ll only get better
Thank you Michael and ABF
OK.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/58698/you-slipping-away-mix/p1?new=1
Gorgeous
Omw out I felt it only right to reply to the member who just replied to my idea with positive results and a great track. Follow the link for more ^^
(PS I posted to song of the month club as @klownshed suggested , credit goes to him, another great idea implemented by a mod to foster musicianship )
Tensions and energies in the world are pretty heavy. Especially since 2019. Also it seems kind of a funny complaint when you realize we’re living in Kali Yuga.
The people who don’t interact a lot anymore because they dont feel aligned with the crowd are probably the ones who are making the changes you are speaking about. Because it seems they choose their own boundaries and live up to them. Be like water my friend 😅
Indeed Kali Yuga, the age of material consumerism, even inner spirituality bought and sold as if a commodity, when it’s freely available if one cares to journey within, although to do so solely risks dire consequence.